I'm a dirty foreigner and I'm not too clear on the status of Puerto Rico, but somehow I'd assumed that they'd get to vote in federal elections since they're a part of the country
They're a part of the country, in that they are citizens and pay taxes. They don't have representation in Congress (they send delegates, but those people can't vote on anything) and they aren't represented in the electoral college.
Fun fact, citizens of Washington DC are similarly unrepresented in Congress, but they do get to vote for President.
Sounds like taxation without representation to me
The DC liscense plate says just that.
Quick, throw that one a license plate.
I've never really understood why DC folks don't get a vote, but at least I knew about that one (it gets mentioned in movies and series from time to time)
DC is a small area entirelt under the ruling of the federal government, and because the government is made up of representatives from states they do not get a vote. The original idea was congress and the federal government shouldn’t be housed under any state laws.
But I'd assume there's other folks in DC besides just congresscritters? It just feels weird that you disenfranchise (whew what a word to spell) people when they are state representatives or they happen to live in the place where the congresscritters do their thing.
I think in general disenfranchising people feels weird to me; I'm Finnish and I'm so used to the idea that literally everybody has a vote no matter what – here all citizens who are over 18 get a vote, whether in parliamentary, presidental, or municipal elections, and the only way to lose your right to vote is to renounce your citizenship. Doesn't matter whether you're an ax murderer or a member of parliament (hopefully not both at the same time though.)
It didn’t matter when DC was 99% swamp, but it’s more of a problem now. My thinking is the people living in DC chose to live there, it’s a very rich area and anyone living in DC has the means to live outside. They knew they wouldn’t have a congressional vote. Also, DC still has municipal elections.
There's plenty of poor people that live in DC. it's not all rich fucks
Yeah, if anything the rich fucks live across the border in Northern Virginia.
Oh dude. There's 87,000 people living in poverty in DC.
DC doesn't get its own separate representative because every congressperson has a vested interest in representing it (since they all live there half the time). The arrangement was specifically designed to avoid giving DC too much power.
They're not willing enough to riot.
Nope. They get a non-voting representative in congress who can speak on issues but has no ability to directly impact legislation.
That honestly seems a bit fucked up. What on earth do they get out of the arrangement if they're not even able to have the slightest bit of influence in the system?
They have access to US markets and are defended by the US military, without some of the requirements of being a full state.
It seems to be that it'd be better for PR to join as a full state, but thus far they've not gotten the votes together to do it.
from what I understand about it, which I am in no way a scholar on the area I am just going off what I remember from my grandfather who was a history teacher. In order for them to get statehood they essentially have to vote on it twice in favor in a row, because they need to vote on it to elect faux representatives to act on their behalf in washington, then on top of that they need to vote yes on it again a few years later during the actual status of the statehood. Currently they have done the first two steps, and are (unless it's blocked) currently set up to vote on the status of their state this August.
It's not as though they're not given the opportunity to become a state. They have voted in the past for things to stay as-is. If I recall, it was a pretty close vote, however.
Ohhh ok, I see. Interesting that they voted against it; are there downsides to statehood vs. their current status?
Big Money is involved - here is an interesting description, enjoy!:-)
Big Money is involved
Fuckin' figures. Thanks for the link! My friend's been telling me to watch John Oliver anyhow so now I have a great excuse
He is the best!:-)
A lot of economic benefits. Easy trade with the US, for example.
Just a note on the tax part:
Consequently, while all Puerto Rico residents pay federal taxes, many residents are not required to pay federal income taxes. Aside from income tax, U.S. federal taxes include customs taxes,[1] federal commodity taxes, and federal payroll taxes (Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment taxes).
Basically they are what the 13 colonies were. Taxed to shit without support and rep lmao
Hah that's true. What would be their equivalent of the Boston Tea Party today? Dump all the Viagra they've manufactured in the sea? "Puerto Rico Viagra Party" sounds like a porn title
Puerto Rico is not a state. Neither is DC, nor Guam, etc
I always forget about Guam.
I didn't realize that statehood is a requirement for actual representation in Congress / the House and being able to participate in federal elections. I've just blithely assumed that they'd get some sort of representation regardless, and that everybody would have voting rights.
Pretty sure they can vote, technically. However only states have senators and congress critters, and the president is elected by the electoral college, which is based on house and senate representatives
You got some solid answers here, but I'll add this: Puerto Ricans don't necessarily wish statehood. The issue is controversial down there.
What are the downsides? I have basically zero knowledge about this and wish to learn.
Some of them would have to start paying income taxes, which kind of defeats the only point of living in a US Territory that can be annihilated by a bad hurricane season.
Ah, so they signed onto the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact!
There's a CGP Grey video on how it generally works for those with short attention space and/or a need for dry government humor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUX-frlNBJY
Waaaiit, Puerto Ricans don't get a vote?
I'm a dirty foreigner and I'm not too clear on the status of Puerto Rico, but somehow I'd assumed that they'd get to vote in federal elections since they're a part of the country
They're a part of the country, in that they are citizens and pay taxes. They don't have representation in Congress (they send delegates, but those people can't vote on anything) and they aren't represented in the electoral college.
Fun fact, citizens of Washington DC are similarly unrepresented in Congress, but they do get to vote for President.
Sounds like taxation without representation to me
The DC liscense plate says just that.
Quick, throw that one a license plate.
I've never really understood why DC folks don't get a vote, but at least I knew about that one (it gets mentioned in movies and series from time to time)
DC is a small area entirelt under the ruling of the federal government, and because the government is made up of representatives from states they do not get a vote. The original idea was congress and the federal government shouldn’t be housed under any state laws.
But I'd assume there's other folks in DC besides just congresscritters? It just feels weird that you disenfranchise (whew what a word to spell) people when they are state representatives or they happen to live in the place where the congresscritters do their thing.
I think in general disenfranchising people feels weird to me; I'm Finnish and I'm so used to the idea that literally everybody has a vote no matter what – here all citizens who are over 18 get a vote, whether in parliamentary, presidental, or municipal elections, and the only way to lose your right to vote is to renounce your citizenship. Doesn't matter whether you're an ax murderer or a member of parliament (hopefully not both at the same time though.)
It didn’t matter when DC was 99% swamp, but it’s more of a problem now. My thinking is the people living in DC chose to live there, it’s a very rich area and anyone living in DC has the means to live outside. They knew they wouldn’t have a congressional vote. Also, DC still has municipal elections.
There's plenty of poor people that live in DC. it's not all rich fucks
Yeah, if anything the rich fucks live across the border in Northern Virginia.
Oh dude. There's 87,000 people living in poverty in DC.
DC doesn't get its own separate representative because every congressperson has a vested interest in representing it (since they all live there half the time). The arrangement was specifically designed to avoid giving DC too much power.
They're not willing enough to riot.
Nope. They get a non-voting representative in congress who can speak on issues but has no ability to directly impact legislation.
That honestly seems a bit fucked up. What on earth do they get out of the arrangement if they're not even able to have the slightest bit of influence in the system?
They have access to US markets and are defended by the US military, without some of the requirements of being a full state.
It seems to be that it'd be better for PR to join as a full state, but thus far they've not gotten the votes together to do it.
from what I understand about it, which I am in no way a scholar on the area I am just going off what I remember from my grandfather who was a history teacher. In order for them to get statehood they essentially have to vote on it twice in favor in a row, because they need to vote on it to elect faux representatives to act on their behalf in washington, then on top of that they need to vote yes on it again a few years later during the actual status of the statehood. Currently they have done the first two steps, and are (unless it's blocked) currently set up to vote on the status of their state this August.
It's not as though they're not given the opportunity to become a state. They have voted in the past for things to stay as-is. If I recall, it was a pretty close vote, however.
Ohhh ok, I see. Interesting that they voted against it; are there downsides to statehood vs. their current status?
Big Money is involved - here is an interesting description, enjoy!:-)
Fuckin' figures. Thanks for the link! My friend's been telling me to watch John Oliver anyhow so now I have a great excuse
He is the best!:-)
A lot of economic benefits. Easy trade with the US, for example.
Just a note on the tax part:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico
Basically they are what the 13 colonies were. Taxed to shit without support and rep lmao
Hah that's true. What would be their equivalent of the Boston Tea Party today? Dump all the Viagra they've manufactured in the sea? "Puerto Rico Viagra Party" sounds like a porn title
Puerto Rico is not a state. Neither is DC, nor Guam, etc
I always forget about Guam.
I didn't realize that statehood is a requirement for actual representation in Congress / the House and being able to participate in federal elections. I've just blithely assumed that they'd get some sort of representation regardless, and that everybody would have voting rights.
Pretty sure they can vote, technically. However only states have senators and congress critters, and the president is elected by the electoral college, which is based on house and senate representatives
You got some solid answers here, but I'll add this: Puerto Ricans don't necessarily wish statehood. The issue is controversial down there.
What are the downsides? I have basically zero knowledge about this and wish to learn.
Some of them would have to start paying income taxes, which kind of defeats the only point of living in a US Territory that can be annihilated by a bad hurricane season.