It would be embarassing to drive a Tesla today, especially for the demographic that would buy these EVs.
You see one driving and you know the driver is a uninformed douchebag.
TBF they could have bought it before we knew he was crazy.
15th July 2018
That's when Musk called a diver who'd just rescued a bunch of kids, a paedophile after he showed up his magical cave diving robot that wouldn't fit in the cave.
Engineers have been calling him out for a decade, it’s just people told us “shut up, nerd! Elon is smarter than all of you! You are just jealous!”
It was honestly hard to parse how disgruntled workers from legitimate complainants. The diver comment was his Mask Off moment.
TBF, Musk's saneness should have no impact on your car-buying decisions.
Get the best product for the money you spend.
So, as before, no Tesla.
If I had to buy a new car today, I’d get a Rivian.
But personally, I’m holding out for Aptera. A car so exceptionally efficient that - for my needs - may never need to be plugged in? Yes, please.
I've been following the Aptera since the 00's So happy to see them actually getting to market.
An Aptera doesn't fit my needs if I only have one vehicle. I'm also following Edison Motors for their pickup truck conversions. As a farmer, I do have a legitimate need for a good pickup/flatbed truck and I have an old Scottsdale without an engine. Diesel/Ev hybrid fueled by biodiesel would be so cool. Modern drive train, manual windows and no spyware.
I hear about use-cases like yours constantly. I feel like auto-makers are really dropping the ball by not offering "low-tech" electric vehicles. Not only would that result in lower price points, but it appeals to people who don't want or don't trust all the high-tech bells and whistles being crammed into EVs these days.
It's clear that there is a huge market for people who just want an old-school car that runs on batteries, and not an overpriced luxury iPhone on wheels.
Edison Motors is wisely only making Semi and Pickup truck conversions with end user fixability in mind, but they have considered making Jeep kits down the road. There are also people pulling Tesla transaxles and putting them in better cars and you can buy the Ford Mustang Mach-E transaxle as a crate motor. BTW, why the fuck is something that's called a Mustang listed as an SUV?
There's a lot of really cool options for DIY EVs that are way better then the upbuilt golfcart motors people use to have to settle for.
Most people (especially outside the US) don't give a fuck about Elon and his politics, at the end of the day they'll buy the car which fits their needs the most within the price range they can afford. And yeah Teslas have issues but my friends who own one are very happy with them.
my friends who own one are very happy with them.
That's because the people who don't like them get rid of them. Their reviews are not good when compared to other vehicles in the same category. The Cybertruck is last in class (not first, last) in all categories except acceleration.
Well I don't know/care, I'm not really interested in cars (and I for one wouldn't buy a Tesla due to Elon Musk's assholery alone). But my friends are, and after thoroughly evaluating the options available here in France they went with Tesla, and they don't seem to regret it.
That's dumb? You can get BMWs or Mercedes Benzes in Europe pretty easily if you want a luxury car. For BMW, you can get an electric i3 for pretty cheap ($15K in the US) or an i4 if you want a newer electric car.
Tesla is firing people for a reason. They are selling fewer cars because the competition is better.
i3 is too small, i4 is too expensive to get the eco bonus so it's much more expensive than the model 3.
But OK I get it, you hate Tesla and you're an expert in the French car market, I'll be sure to let them know.
But Tesla is priced like a luxury car? My point is, you can get everything you want better with other manufacturers. Unless you mainly want to suck off Elon.
I very much dislike Elon, but I have a Model 3 and it was definitely the best option for the price. It was $25K used, much less than an i4 and I like the overall design much better, but I know a lot of people don't like it which is fine. Have you owned an EV? The charging infrastructure in the US for Teslas is light years ahead of the competition, and you know that's true when the other manufacturers, that you say are better, are switching charging ports and trying to get access to the supercharger network. Let's not pretend like you can get EVERYTHING you want better, and that Tesla has done nothing to improve the overall state of EVs. The company would undoubtedly be looked at much differently if Elon were not at the helm, he draws way too much attention and is a terrible human being overall. And no, I'm not attributing anything positive about the company or the cars to Elon, I don't think he has done shit. I give all of the credit to the actual engineers.
You clearly have no clue about car prices in France.
Embarrassing? Tesla single handedly showed an alternative to oil-based vehicles with an absolutely superior machine. I put 200,000 miles on my Tesla model 3 driving it off road to some of the most remote places in the US, and it never broke a sweat. It was the first car that could keep up with my adventure spirit. If a traditional manufacturer made this machine it would have cost $300,000 for what it can do.
While you are here buying in to big oil brain washing, this company has single handedly done more in the war against climate change, and dystopian hellscape oil/based economies like Saudi Arabia, than any other company in history.
Musk might be autistic and have a lot of dumb ideas he can't keep contained but he undeniably has a better vision for what technology the public has access to. A single person's personality is such a dumb reason to support oil companies, with the blood of millions on their hands, and possibly the end of this planet. Keep drinking the koolaide, though!
No they didn’t.
No one here loves big oil.
There are other companies that make better EVs.
Tesla single handedly showed an alternative to oil-based vehicles with an absolutely superior machine.
EVs were around before Tesla. Tesla just made them cool because dudebros got suckered into investing in it.
Thanks for that. Sorry for being so aggressive there. I had just come from a discussion on another site where someone tried to insult Musk by calling him autistic because of the way he walks, and I carried some of that anger over here.
Hey, no worries. It happens to the best of us, and it's really big of you to admit that and recognize it in yourself.
I wasn't saying he is autistic as an insult (I'm also a bit neurodivergent), more recognizing his disabilities and acknowledging that his masking may result in some socially unacceptable characteristics. It is also really easy to be misunderstood and then find yourself in a socially difficult quagmire. It happens to me all the time and I don't have a billion eyeballs watching my every move. I summarize this by calling it "dumb", which again, I don't mean as insulting.
I do think when you create something as valuable as something like Tesla, you should be held to a higher standard and not jeopardize the mission as a public figure being controversial. If you can't contain that, then you hire people to lead the company who can.
Anyway, I appreciate you. Thanks for the civility. We are all on this planet growing together, I much prefer being friendly, patient, and understanding.
I mean he said he's on the spectrum when he hosted SNL two years ago. Given his track record that probably means he isn't, but don't worry it's coming in the next firmware update.
Speaking of ableism...
I'm just making fun of him for constantly promising features that don't exist, then saying they'll come in a future update when it ships without them. À la the full self driving demo in 2016 that turned out to be fake.
I understand your joke now, but it misses the mark here. A lot of disabled people tell people what they are and people question them and attack them for it, saying things like "well you look fine" etc, so it is a really clear form of ableism (which was the context here).
Tesla single handedly showed an alternative to oil-based vehicles with an absolutely superior machine.
Keep drinking the koolaide, though!
lol
If you could have stopped at the first paragraph I would have upvoted you. I actually had to remove my upvote. Why did you feel it was so important to attack a stranger on the internet, it destroyed the credibility of your initial statement?
The truth does not care for your upvotes, and my credibility is absolutely intact. Check with a more objective thinking device and verify reality.
An objective, fact-based thinking devices (ChatGPT4) disagree with you. Here is my prompt and its response, which you can independently verify:
I am reading a comment thread on the internet. I need your opinion. First the thread:
Comment 1:
Avoid Musk at all costs.It would be embarassing to drive a Tesla today, especially for the demographic that would buy these EVs.You see one driving and you know the driver is a uninformed douchebag.
⸻
Commentor reply:
Embarrassing? Tesla single handedly showed an alternative to oil-based vehicles with an absolutely superior machine. I put 200,000 miles on my Tesla model 3 driving it off road to some of the most remote places in the US, and it never broke a sweat. It was the first car that could keep up with my adventure spirit. If a traditional manufacturer made this machine it would have cost $300,000 for what it can do.While you are here buying in to big oil brain washing, this company has single handedly done more in the war against climate change, and dystopian hellscape oil/based economies like Saudi Arabia, than any other company in history.Musk might be autistic and have a lot of dumb ideas he can't keep contained but he undeniably has a better vision for what technology the public has access to. A single person's personality is such a dumb reason to support oil companies, with the blood of millions on their hands, and possibly the end of this planet. Keep drinking the koolaide, though!
⸻
Who is correct here objectively speaking? Which view seems accurate and credible?
ChatGPT4:
The comments you've shared express strong opinions and biases towards Tesla and Elon Musk, highlighting the polarizing nature of public figures and innovative companies.The first comment criticizes Tesla and its customers, labeling them as "uninformed." This viewpoint seems to focus more on social perception and the controversial aspects of Elon Musk's public persona rather than the technical or environmental merits of Tesla vehicles. The argument lacks specific factual support and primarily uses ad hominem attacks, which weakens its credibility.The second comment provides a counterpoint, emphasizing the positive impacts of Tesla on the automotive industry, particularly its role in popularizing electric vehicles (EVs) and challenging traditional automotive and oil industries. This commenter shares personal experiences with the Tesla Model 3, attesting to its performance and reliability, which adds a layer of anecdotal evidence to their argument. They also acknowledge Musk's personality and controversial ideas but argue that these should not overshadow the technological and environmental contributions of his company.Objectively, the second commenter provides a more fact-based perspective by citing specific contributions of Tesla to the automotive industry and environmental efforts. Their argument is bolstered by personal experience and a broader view of the company's impact on global issues like climate change and economic structures reliant on oil.In conclusion, the second comment appears more accurate and credible based on the use of specific examples and a focus on substantial issues rather than personal attacks.
"Truth doesn't care"....proceeds to ask GPT4 their opinion as if AI is some sort of judge. Judge then proceeds to provide opinion on the arguments presented and not the contents therein. Asks GPT4 to independently verify, it doesn't. Instead claims first poster of an Adhom and says that limits credibility, but insists replies anecdotes make him more right. But doesn't mention replies ad hom.
Avoid Musk at all costs.
It would be embarassing to drive a Tesla today, especially for the demographic that would buy these EVs.
You see one driving and you know the driver is a uninformed douchebag.
TBF they could have bought it before we knew he was crazy.
15th July 2018
That's when Musk called a diver who'd just rescued a bunch of kids, a paedophile after he showed up his magical cave diving robot that wouldn't fit in the cave.
Engineers have been calling him out for a decade, it’s just people told us “shut up, nerd! Elon is smarter than all of you! You are just jealous!”
It was honestly hard to parse how disgruntled workers from legitimate complainants. The diver comment was his Mask Off moment.
TBF, Musk's saneness should have no impact on your car-buying decisions.
Get the best product for the money you spend.
So, as before, no Tesla.
If I had to buy a new car today, I’d get a Rivian.
But personally, I’m holding out for Aptera. A car so exceptionally efficient that - for my needs - may never need to be plugged in? Yes, please.
I've been following the Aptera since the 00's So happy to see them actually getting to market.
An Aptera doesn't fit my needs if I only have one vehicle. I'm also following Edison Motors for their pickup truck conversions. As a farmer, I do have a legitimate need for a good pickup/flatbed truck and I have an old Scottsdale without an engine. Diesel/Ev hybrid fueled by biodiesel would be so cool. Modern drive train, manual windows and no spyware.
I hear about use-cases like yours constantly. I feel like auto-makers are really dropping the ball by not offering "low-tech" electric vehicles. Not only would that result in lower price points, but it appeals to people who don't want or don't trust all the high-tech bells and whistles being crammed into EVs these days.
It's clear that there is a huge market for people who just want an old-school car that runs on batteries, and not an overpriced luxury iPhone on wheels.
Cause they don't want to ship simple, fixable vehicles without spyware. Even the windshields are designed to pull "maximum value" from their users.
Edison Motors is wisely only making Semi and Pickup truck conversions with end user fixability in mind, but they have considered making Jeep kits down the road. There are also people pulling Tesla transaxles and putting them in better cars and you can buy the Ford Mustang Mach-E transaxle as a crate motor. BTW, why the fuck is something that's called a Mustang listed as an SUV?
There's a lot of really cool options for DIY EVs that are way better then the upbuilt golfcart motors people use to have to settle for.
Most people (especially outside the US) don't give a fuck about Elon and his politics, at the end of the day they'll buy the car which fits their needs the most within the price range they can afford. And yeah Teslas have issues but my friends who own one are very happy with them.
That's because the people who don't like them get rid of them. Their reviews are not good when compared to other vehicles in the same category. The Cybertruck is last in class (not first, last) in all categories except acceleration.
Well I don't know/care, I'm not really interested in cars (and I for one wouldn't buy a Tesla due to Elon Musk's assholery alone). But my friends are, and after thoroughly evaluating the options available here in France they went with Tesla, and they don't seem to regret it.
That's dumb? You can get BMWs or Mercedes Benzes in Europe pretty easily if you want a luxury car. For BMW, you can get an electric i3 for pretty cheap ($15K in the US) or an i4 if you want a newer electric car.
Tesla is firing people for a reason. They are selling fewer cars because the competition is better.
i3 is too small, i4 is too expensive to get the eco bonus so it's much more expensive than the model 3.
But OK I get it, you hate Tesla and you're an expert in the French car market, I'll be sure to let them know.
But Tesla is priced like a luxury car? My point is, you can get everything you want better with other manufacturers. Unless you mainly want to suck off Elon.
I very much dislike Elon, but I have a Model 3 and it was definitely the best option for the price. It was $25K used, much less than an i4 and I like the overall design much better, but I know a lot of people don't like it which is fine. Have you owned an EV? The charging infrastructure in the US for Teslas is light years ahead of the competition, and you know that's true when the other manufacturers, that you say are better, are switching charging ports and trying to get access to the supercharger network. Let's not pretend like you can get EVERYTHING you want better, and that Tesla has done nothing to improve the overall state of EVs. The company would undoubtedly be looked at much differently if Elon were not at the helm, he draws way too much attention and is a terrible human being overall. And no, I'm not attributing anything positive about the company or the cars to Elon, I don't think he has done shit. I give all of the credit to the actual engineers.
You clearly have no clue about car prices in France.
Embarrassing? Tesla single handedly showed an alternative to oil-based vehicles with an absolutely superior machine. I put 200,000 miles on my Tesla model 3 driving it off road to some of the most remote places in the US, and it never broke a sweat. It was the first car that could keep up with my adventure spirit. If a traditional manufacturer made this machine it would have cost $300,000 for what it can do.
While you are here buying in to big oil brain washing, this company has single handedly done more in the war against climate change, and dystopian hellscape oil/based economies like Saudi Arabia, than any other company in history.
Musk might be autistic and have a lot of dumb ideas he can't keep contained but he undeniably has a better vision for what technology the public has access to. A single person's personality is such a dumb reason to support oil companies, with the blood of millions on their hands, and possibly the end of this planet. Keep drinking the koolaide, though!
No they didn’t. No one here loves big oil. There are other companies that make better EVs.
EVs were around before Tesla. Tesla just made them cool because dudebros got suckered into investing in it.
There’s a documentary called Who Killed the Electric Car disproving your point https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk
EVs were trash before Tesla. It was just virtue signaling and controlled opposition. Tesla made them a real alternative to ICE cars.
The sheer ableism of assuming Musk is autistic just because he's a Nazi asshole... What a insult to autistic people.
Musk is absolutely autistic.
You got anything to back that up, besides speculation and ableism?
Elon Musk publicly disclosed he has asperger's syndrome....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57045770
https://www.newsweek.com/asperger-syndrome-elon-musk-autism-spectrum-disorder-1590043
https://psychcentral.com/autism/elon-musk-opened-up-about-autism-heres-what-we-learned#diagnosis
Thanks for that. Sorry for being so aggressive there. I had just come from a discussion on another site where someone tried to insult Musk by calling him autistic because of the way he walks, and I carried some of that anger over here.
Hey, no worries. It happens to the best of us, and it's really big of you to admit that and recognize it in yourself.
I wasn't saying he is autistic as an insult (I'm also a bit neurodivergent), more recognizing his disabilities and acknowledging that his masking may result in some socially unacceptable characteristics. It is also really easy to be misunderstood and then find yourself in a socially difficult quagmire. It happens to me all the time and I don't have a billion eyeballs watching my every move. I summarize this by calling it "dumb", which again, I don't mean as insulting.
I do think when you create something as valuable as something like Tesla, you should be held to a higher standard and not jeopardize the mission as a public figure being controversial. If you can't contain that, then you hire people to lead the company who can.
Anyway, I appreciate you. Thanks for the civility. We are all on this planet growing together, I much prefer being friendly, patient, and understanding.
I mean he said he's on the spectrum when he hosted SNL two years ago. Given his track record that probably means he isn't, but don't worry it's coming in the next firmware update.
Speaking of ableism...
I'm just making fun of him for constantly promising features that don't exist, then saying they'll come in a future update when it ships without them. À la the full self driving demo in 2016 that turned out to be fake.
I understand your joke now, but it misses the mark here. A lot of disabled people tell people what they are and people question them and attack them for it, saying things like "well you look fine" etc, so it is a really clear form of ableism (which was the context here).
lol
If you could have stopped at the first paragraph I would have upvoted you. I actually had to remove my upvote. Why did you feel it was so important to attack a stranger on the internet, it destroyed the credibility of your initial statement?
The truth does not care for your upvotes, and my credibility is absolutely intact. Check with a more objective thinking device and verify reality.
An objective, fact-based thinking devices (ChatGPT4) disagree with you. Here is my prompt and its response, which you can independently verify:
I am reading a comment thread on the internet. I need your opinion. First the thread:
Comment 1:
Avoid Musk at all costs.It would be embarassing to drive a Tesla today, especially for the demographic that would buy these EVs.You see one driving and you know the driver is a uninformed douchebag.
⸻
Commentor reply:
Embarrassing? Tesla single handedly showed an alternative to oil-based vehicles with an absolutely superior machine. I put 200,000 miles on my Tesla model 3 driving it off road to some of the most remote places in the US, and it never broke a sweat. It was the first car that could keep up with my adventure spirit. If a traditional manufacturer made this machine it would have cost $300,000 for what it can do.While you are here buying in to big oil brain washing, this company has single handedly done more in the war against climate change, and dystopian hellscape oil/based economies like Saudi Arabia, than any other company in history.Musk might be autistic and have a lot of dumb ideas he can't keep contained but he undeniably has a better vision for what technology the public has access to. A single person's personality is such a dumb reason to support oil companies, with the blood of millions on their hands, and possibly the end of this planet. Keep drinking the koolaide, though!
⸻
Who is correct here objectively speaking? Which view seems accurate and credible?
ChatGPT4:
The comments you've shared express strong opinions and biases towards Tesla and Elon Musk, highlighting the polarizing nature of public figures and innovative companies.The first comment criticizes Tesla and its customers, labeling them as "uninformed." This viewpoint seems to focus more on social perception and the controversial aspects of Elon Musk's public persona rather than the technical or environmental merits of Tesla vehicles. The argument lacks specific factual support and primarily uses ad hominem attacks, which weakens its credibility.The second comment provides a counterpoint, emphasizing the positive impacts of Tesla on the automotive industry, particularly its role in popularizing electric vehicles (EVs) and challenging traditional automotive and oil industries. This commenter shares personal experiences with the Tesla Model 3, attesting to its performance and reliability, which adds a layer of anecdotal evidence to their argument. They also acknowledge Musk's personality and controversial ideas but argue that these should not overshadow the technological and environmental contributions of his company.Objectively, the second commenter provides a more fact-based perspective by citing specific contributions of Tesla to the automotive industry and environmental efforts. Their argument is bolstered by personal experience and a broader view of the company's impact on global issues like climate change and economic structures reliant on oil.In conclusion, the second comment appears more accurate and credible based on the use of specific examples and a focus on substantial issues rather than personal attacks.
"Truth doesn't care"....proceeds to ask GPT4 their opinion as if AI is some sort of judge. Judge then proceeds to provide opinion on the arguments presented and not the contents therein. Asks GPT4 to independently verify, it doesn't. Instead claims first poster of an Adhom and says that limits credibility, but insists replies anecdotes make him more right. But doesn't mention replies ad hom.
Yeah...okay.
This!