Well aktually, Johnny Cash issued a statement to the KKK telling them his first wife wasn’t black and appeared to have some racist attitudes in his youth, though he did come around later on and I wouldn’t say he was racist. Her heritage is described:
“In the image, Vivian, whose father was of Sicilian heritage and whose mother was said to be of German and Irish descent, appeared to be Black.”
Though in other images in the same article she doesn’t appear black at all, so I’m not sure. There seemed to be different attitudes about what was considered “black” in that time.
“The stress was almost unbearable. I wanted to die,” she [Vivian] wrote in her memoir. “And it didn’t help that Johnny issued a statement to the KKK informing them I wasn’t Black.” She did not think the campaign should have been dignified with a response.
So she may have been more upset that he responded at all, not necessarily being upset that he said she wasn’t black.
Sicilians were sometimes "black" in the jim crow south. I couldn't find the citation, but at least one black dude avoided getting murdered after it was discovered the woman he was sleeping with was sicilian. I think the anecdote is from Isabelle Wilkerson's Caste.
Irish and Italians were Catholic, which was enemy #3 to the KKK right behind black and jewsiwh people. Irish and Italians weren't even considered white for the first half of the 20yh century
I thought that the irish were always considered white but faced discrimination due to their nationality itself, along with religion, and typically being poor, more like being viewed as a “lesser” category of whites
Interesting, the basis of that is so strange
It’s not strange if you know the history of KKK. They trace their roots back to the Orange Order.
The orange order is a sectarian group in Northen Ireland and Britain (outside Northern Ireland they are mainly west Scotland). They are pro-Protestant, pro-Monarchy and pro-Union (union between the nations of the UK). When the USA became a republic outside the UK they lost two of their three defining factors. So they replaced it with racism, but kept the sectarianism.
They still share similar rank structures. The KKK burn crosses, the orange order are fans of large bonfires often burning effigies of the pope. The KKK didn’t seem to keep the flute band marches, but both do march in silly dress costumes.
Despite their large presence in Northen Ireland with many of their members being born on the Island of Ireland, they wouldn’t claim themselves as Irish.
There's the blacks of the UK, the rest of us likes em well enough.
Catholicism was a huge part of it. The KKK was extremely active in New England, particularly in Maine, against the French-Canadian diaspora. At one point over 20% of the population were card carrying members, more than Alabama or Mississippi! The anti french laws it established were repealed only in the 60s.
Could you tell me where I can read more about this ? specifically the french-canadian new england stuff ?
“The real issue is Americanism against Romanism,” wrote Fred Moseley of Brunswick in April 1924. “Thinking, intelligent people do not believe it is for the best interests of the people to place Catholics in office. If a person is not 100 percent American, he is not an American. Let us elect good people to office,” rather than a politician who would sell “his soul to the devil to buy an election at the price of dishonor, bidding for the Roman vote.”
This has been mostly erased from the history books, much like the rest of French Canadian history in the United States.
Good old Italian racists would agree with this assessment nowadays.
Did you not read the end of the article you linked? His wife definitely had black roots, but it was a family secret.
Earlier this year, the mystery of whether Vivian was descended in part from Africans was finally resolved. In a February episode of the PBS show, “Finding Your Roots,” host and historian Henry Louis Gates Jr. presented Rosanne Cash with her DNA results and family genealogy. Vivian Cash’s maternal great-great grandmother was indeed an enslaved Black woman, Sarah Shields, whose White father in 1848 had granted her and her eight siblings their freedom and their passage into Whiteness, too.
Basically Vivian's great-great-grandmother was a black enslaved woman, and her descendents hid this fact to save themselves from Jim Crow laws.
It's possible she and Johnny knew but kept it quiet because they lived in the deep south in a time when it was scary to be in any way black. The 'one-drop rule' is still a thing for a lot of americans, after all. We know that Vivian wife was living in fear of the KKK whenever he went on tour. I would imagine he said whatever he had to say to keep her safe while he was away
Yes, but I was responding the original posts claim that Johnny Cash came out and said his wife was black, which was the exact opposite of what happened. His wife being 1/16 African helps the claim that she had maybe a darker complexion I guess, it's hard to tell with most photos of her being in black & white or potentially colorized. I'm also 1/16 Native American and I really wouldn't claim that I'm actually Native American based off of that (though maybe some scholarships exist that say otherwise).
Her being 1/2 Sicilian may have had a bigger impact on skin-tone, but maybe the African great-great-grandmother was a well-known secret in her family and they tried to hide it as much as possible, I don't know. It's probably more important to ask, "Did she consider herself to be black?" Everyone has their own definition of it, but I've not seen anything that says that she actually considered herself as black, but it's also possible she tried to hide it early on given the racial climate at the time. Is the "One-Drop Rule" still valid here?
The one drop rule is absolutely central to this conversation. Whether or not she was dark-skinned was not why she had threats from the KKK, it's the fact that her complexion and facial features suggest black ancestry that made her a target.
One sixteenth black was still legally black in many States, and Tennessee, where they lived, was the first place to codify this. You're not wrong that her Sicilian heritage could have given her this complexion, but if her Black heritage was proven, as small as 1/16th might be, it would have made their marriage illegal under miscegenation laws. So he had a vested interest in keeping it quiet for both their sakes. He's still progressive and brave for embarking on such a relationship, if indeed be did know of her heritage
In context, "black" doesn't mean brown, it means not white. Where whiteness is a shifting political concept defined by exclusion.
To the goddamn KKK, sometimes it just meant "catholic."
A few years ago, I visited Jamaica and was surprised to find out how much everyone there loves Johnny Cash. I was anticipating Bob Marley to be the big name, but it was actually Cash. Didn’t even know there was a connection between him and the country
He had a house there, which I had the chance to visit. I'm quite certain he spent most of his time there. Given his immense popularity in Jamaica, it would be shocking if Johnny Cash had held any racist views.
I'm of Sicilian heritage and Cash's first wife, Vivian Liberto, would look perfectly at home at a family reunion.
Well aktually, Johnny Cash issued a statement to the KKK telling them his first wife wasn’t black and appeared to have some racist attitudes in his youth, though he did come around later on and I wouldn’t say he was racist. Her heritage is described:
Though in other images in the same article she doesn’t appear black at all, so I’m not sure. There seemed to be different attitudes about what was considered “black” in that time.
So she may have been more upset that he responded at all, not necessarily being upset that he said she wasn’t black.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/05/16/johnny-cash-first-wife-vivian-black/
Sicilians were sometimes "black" in the jim crow south. I couldn't find the citation, but at least one black dude avoided getting murdered after it was discovered the woman he was sleeping with was sicilian. I think the anecdote is from Isabelle Wilkerson's Caste.
Irish and Italians were Catholic, which was enemy #3 to the KKK right behind black and jewsiwh people. Irish and Italians weren't even considered white for the first half of the 20yh century
I thought that the irish were always considered white but faced discrimination due to their nationality itself, along with religion, and typically being poor, more like being viewed as a “lesser” category of whites
Interesting, the basis of that is so strange
It’s not strange if you know the history of KKK. They trace their roots back to the Orange Order.
The orange order is a sectarian group in Northen Ireland and Britain (outside Northern Ireland they are mainly west Scotland). They are pro-Protestant, pro-Monarchy and pro-Union (union between the nations of the UK). When the USA became a republic outside the UK they lost two of their three defining factors. So they replaced it with racism, but kept the sectarianism.
They still share similar rank structures. The KKK burn crosses, the orange order are fans of large bonfires often burning effigies of the pope. The KKK didn’t seem to keep the flute band marches, but both do march in silly dress costumes.
Despite their large presence in Northen Ireland with many of their members being born on the Island of Ireland, they wouldn’t claim themselves as Irish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7meZZeYllo
The Irish are the blacks of Europe, and Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland.
There's the blacks of the UK, the rest of us likes em well enough.
Catholicism was a huge part of it. The KKK was extremely active in New England, particularly in Maine, against the French-Canadian diaspora. At one point over 20% of the population were card carrying members, more than Alabama or Mississippi! The anti french laws it established were repealed only in the 60s.
Could you tell me where I can read more about this ? specifically the french-canadian new england stuff ?
Here's some quick links to get you started:
https://www.ledevoir.com/societe/608667/histoire-quand-le-kkk-faisait-sa-loi-contre-les-canadiens-francais-du-maine (In French)
https://www.mainememory.net/sitebuilder/site/2122/page/3514/display
https://www.centralmaine.com/2017/02/05/ku-klux-klan-emergence-in-1920s-maine-offers-lessons-for-today/
https://www.seacoastonline.com/story/news/local/york-star/2010/03/04/the-king-kleagle-maine-s/51686485007/
https://umaine.edu/news/blog/2016/11/22/wvii-interviews-segal-story-kkks-history-maine/
This has been mostly erased from the history books, much like the rest of French Canadian history in the United States.
Good old Italian racists would agree with this assessment nowadays.
Did you not read the end of the article you linked? His wife definitely had black roots, but it was a family secret.
Basically Vivian's great-great-grandmother was a black enslaved woman, and her descendents hid this fact to save themselves from Jim Crow laws.
It's possible she and Johnny knew but kept it quiet because they lived in the deep south in a time when it was scary to be in any way black. The 'one-drop rule' is still a thing for a lot of americans, after all. We know that Vivian wife was living in fear of the KKK whenever he went on tour. I would imagine he said whatever he had to say to keep her safe while he was away
Yes, but I was responding the original posts claim that Johnny Cash came out and said his wife was black, which was the exact opposite of what happened. His wife being 1/16 African helps the claim that she had maybe a darker complexion I guess, it's hard to tell with most photos of her being in black & white or potentially colorized. I'm also 1/16 Native American and I really wouldn't claim that I'm actually Native American based off of that (though maybe some scholarships exist that say otherwise).
Her being 1/2 Sicilian may have had a bigger impact on skin-tone, but maybe the African great-great-grandmother was a well-known secret in her family and they tried to hide it as much as possible, I don't know. It's probably more important to ask, "Did she consider herself to be black?" Everyone has their own definition of it, but I've not seen anything that says that she actually considered herself as black, but it's also possible she tried to hide it early on given the racial climate at the time. Is the "One-Drop Rule" still valid here?
The one drop rule is absolutely central to this conversation. Whether or not she was dark-skinned was not why she had threats from the KKK, it's the fact that her complexion and facial features suggest black ancestry that made her a target.
One sixteenth black was still legally black in many States, and Tennessee, where they lived, was the first place to codify this. You're not wrong that her Sicilian heritage could have given her this complexion, but if her Black heritage was proven, as small as 1/16th might be, it would have made their marriage illegal under miscegenation laws. So he had a vested interest in keeping it quiet for both their sakes. He's still progressive and brave for embarking on such a relationship, if indeed be did know of her heritage
In context, "black" doesn't mean brown, it means not white. Where whiteness is a shifting political concept defined by exclusion.
To the goddamn KKK, sometimes it just meant "catholic."
A few years ago, I visited Jamaica and was surprised to find out how much everyone there loves Johnny Cash. I was anticipating Bob Marley to be the big name, but it was actually Cash. Didn’t even know there was a connection between him and the country
He had a house there, which I had the chance to visit. I'm quite certain he spent most of his time there. Given his immense popularity in Jamaica, it would be shocking if Johnny Cash had held any racist views.
I'm of Sicilian heritage and Cash's first wife, Vivian Liberto, would look perfectly at home at a family reunion.