I dream of an open source car. Something simple but reliable, say a legally-distinct 2004 Honda Accord, bog standard, no frills, no detail package options, just A Cheap Car with standardized parts and open source software. It's the only car the company makes, you can buy one for 10k or build your own for 6k out of parts and a couple months worth of weekends, car nerds will fork the software for infinite tuning customization, and it doesn't report your location back to headquarters. Parts are standardized across every car we've ever made so your local parts store will have them in stock. The new model year is the same car as last year, we just built some fresh ones for people to buy new.
I have no way of making this dream a reality. But I dream of it nonetheless. American car culture has gone off the rails, and the number of people I see already driving around old 5-owner Hondas and Toyotas and Buicks tells me that there is definitely a market for a cheap basic car that runs.
That would have been the Sono Sion, but there was too little interest. Not enough preorders meant they ran out of money to continue development.
Off topic: I'd argue Love Exposure by Sion Sono is the best movie ever made.
Creating a FOSS EV is all do-able right now with off the shelf motors and batteries. Welding a frame would take some skill. How to title it would depend on the local government rules; many states in the US have a kit car designation for this sort of thing, but not all do.
If it's built rigid like a race car with a roll cage, four-point harness, and at least a DOT rated helmet for everyone inside (if not Snell), it could be safer then most cars on the road. If it's not very large, then it's probably safer for pedestrians and bicycles, too.
I don't expect air bags to be viable. It takes a lot of tuning to get them right, and they can be worse than nothing if not done right (they're basically a controlled explosion). However, the race car-like design above, plus helmets, would keep you safer than any air bag. Road cars converted to track cars often disable or remove the air bags. The rules of the event may even require it. They're counterproductive dead weight when you're packed in this way.
Other creature comforts are going to be what you put into it, but keep in mind that many of the things we take for granted in modern cars--A/C, stereos, padded seats, etc.--add a whole lot of weight.
What also adds weight is how many passengers you want to carry at once. Two passengers won't add much weight, but four or more would. All that extra frame material adds up.
Building a traditional frame would take some welding skills. I have just enough welding skills to make some shelves, but anything structural (which my tutor defined as "anything where somebody's life depends on the weld holding") is not something I'm comfortable doing. That is to say, it'll take more than a quick tutorial and a little practice.
However, one interesting possibility is epoxy. Lotus did this for the Elise, and I once tracked down the epoxy manufacturer they use (I'd have to search around to find it again, though). The instructions for it didn't seem to need anything particularly out of reach for a hobbyist (doesn't need a big autoclave or anything like that). Lotus did reinforce certain sections with bolts/rivets. It will take some knowledge to design a frame around this, but it's one time design work by an engineer and then everyone can copy it.
One advantage Lotus had over a welded frame was thinner material. A weld itself is very strong, but it weakens the metal around it (meaning you usually get breaks around the weld, not on it). You have to use thicker metal to compensate for that. Since Lotus was using an epoxy, they could use thinner material for less weight, and it was stronger in the end.
Since it's also getting rid of a whole lot of weight around the frame, the range you get out of those batteries could be extreme. It could also be extremely quick with a modest motor.
This is basically all to say that you can have any three: safe, creature comforts, enough space for passengers, range.
For legal reasons it might be easier to take an existing car, throw out all the tech, and add your own. You won't own the chassis design, but you can at least use open source software everywhere.
Difference between getting a modification certified, vs a self build.
I want that so badly.
Yeah I want my autonomous electric town car to be fully open. We should be able to have sustainable cars if any cars at all. Cars you can't easily repair or maintain are not sustainable.
I assume car manufacturers would try to stop this by saying people would just load up video games or netflix on their dashboards while they drive. Even though you could probably do that now already, if you really wanted to.
Hell, I could just bolt a laptop to the dash if I really wanted that
Yeah, but who wants their car to look like a Tesla? ;)
What do you mean? You still have your dash cluster!
Car dependency is a dead end. It's inherently wasteful, privileged, inefficient, unsustainable, unhealthy, etc. I would much rather have free, extensive, public transit and safe infrastructure for pedestrians, bikes, and light EVs.
Tell us you don't live in the US without telling us you don 't live in the US.
Or anywhere relatively rural. I just got home from a long weekend in rural Minnesota/Wisconsin, and there's literally no viable way to run public transit out there in a manner that wouldn't either be so restrictive as to be useless, or would lose so much money it would be first on the block for service cuts (and therefore become useless). I'm talking "town of 600 residents, most people live on unincorporated county land on a farmstead, and the only grocery store in a 50 mile radius is a Dollar General" rural. Asking these folks to give up cars is an insane prospect.
Paved roads don't just naturally occur, though. That lifestyle is already an insane prospect, unsustainabke but for the large tax subsidy required to enable it.
I live in the U.S. That comment is 100% true, no matter where one lives.
Building out transit and infrastructure takes time. In the meanwhile, people still have to get places.
I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, but continuing to say that as a reason not to work towards that goal makes no sense
And isn't necessarily the best approach
Great, lmk when there's a regular train from Boston to my office in Boxborough, which currently requires it's residents to drop off their own trash at the facility. I'm sure that'll be frequent and efficient right?
I dream of an open source car. Something simple but reliable, say a legally-distinct 2004 Honda Accord, bog standard, no frills, no detail package options, just A Cheap Car with standardized parts and open source software. It's the only car the company makes, you can buy one for 10k or build your own for 6k out of parts and a couple months worth of weekends, car nerds will fork the software for infinite tuning customization, and it doesn't report your location back to headquarters. Parts are standardized across every car we've ever made so your local parts store will have them in stock. The new model year is the same car as last year, we just built some fresh ones for people to buy new.
I have no way of making this dream a reality. But I dream of it nonetheless. American car culture has gone off the rails, and the number of people I see already driving around old 5-owner Hondas and Toyotas and Buicks tells me that there is definitely a market for a cheap basic car that runs.
That would have been the Sono Sion, but there was too little interest. Not enough preorders meant they ran out of money to continue development.
Off topic: I'd argue Love Exposure by Sion Sono is the best movie ever made.
Creating a FOSS EV is all do-able right now with off the shelf motors and batteries. Welding a frame would take some skill. How to title it would depend on the local government rules; many states in the US have a kit car designation for this sort of thing, but not all do.
If it's built rigid like a race car with a roll cage, four-point harness, and at least a DOT rated helmet for everyone inside (if not Snell), it could be safer then most cars on the road. If it's not very large, then it's probably safer for pedestrians and bicycles, too.
I don't expect air bags to be viable. It takes a lot of tuning to get them right, and they can be worse than nothing if not done right (they're basically a controlled explosion). However, the race car-like design above, plus helmets, would keep you safer than any air bag. Road cars converted to track cars often disable or remove the air bags. The rules of the event may even require it. They're counterproductive dead weight when you're packed in this way.
Other creature comforts are going to be what you put into it, but keep in mind that many of the things we take for granted in modern cars--A/C, stereos, padded seats, etc.--add a whole lot of weight.
What also adds weight is how many passengers you want to carry at once. Two passengers won't add much weight, but four or more would. All that extra frame material adds up.
Building a traditional frame would take some welding skills. I have just enough welding skills to make some shelves, but anything structural (which my tutor defined as "anything where somebody's life depends on the weld holding") is not something I'm comfortable doing. That is to say, it'll take more than a quick tutorial and a little practice.
However, one interesting possibility is epoxy. Lotus did this for the Elise, and I once tracked down the epoxy manufacturer they use (I'd have to search around to find it again, though). The instructions for it didn't seem to need anything particularly out of reach for a hobbyist (doesn't need a big autoclave or anything like that). Lotus did reinforce certain sections with bolts/rivets. It will take some knowledge to design a frame around this, but it's one time design work by an engineer and then everyone can copy it.
One advantage Lotus had over a welded frame was thinner material. A weld itself is very strong, but it weakens the metal around it (meaning you usually get breaks around the weld, not on it). You have to use thicker metal to compensate for that. Since Lotus was using an epoxy, they could use thinner material for less weight, and it was stronger in the end.
Since it's also getting rid of a whole lot of weight around the frame, the range you get out of those batteries could be extreme. It could also be extremely quick with a modest motor.
This is basically all to say that you can have any three: safe, creature comforts, enough space for passengers, range.
For legal reasons it might be easier to take an existing car, throw out all the tech, and add your own. You won't own the chassis design, but you can at least use open source software everywhere.
Difference between getting a modification certified, vs a self build.
I want that so badly.
Yeah I want my autonomous electric town car to be fully open. We should be able to have sustainable cars if any cars at all. Cars you can't easily repair or maintain are not sustainable.
I assume car manufacturers would try to stop this by saying people would just load up video games or netflix on their dashboards while they drive. Even though you could probably do that now already, if you really wanted to.
Hell, I could just bolt a laptop to the dash if I really wanted that
Why jump to laptop when tablets are right there? Just chuck one of these chungus fuckers onto some velcro mounts...https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/tablets/galaxy-view/samsung-galaxy-view-18-4-32gb-wi-fi-black-sm-t670nzkaxar/
Yeah, but who wants their car to look like a Tesla? ;)
What do you mean? You still have your dash cluster!
Car dependency is a dead end. It's inherently wasteful, privileged, inefficient, unsustainable, unhealthy, etc. I would much rather have free, extensive, public transit and safe infrastructure for pedestrians, bikes, and light EVs.
Tell us you don't live in the US without telling us you don 't live in the US.
Or anywhere relatively rural. I just got home from a long weekend in rural Minnesota/Wisconsin, and there's literally no viable way to run public transit out there in a manner that wouldn't either be so restrictive as to be useless, or would lose so much money it would be first on the block for service cuts (and therefore become useless). I'm talking "town of 600 residents, most people live on unincorporated county land on a farmstead, and the only grocery store in a 50 mile radius is a Dollar General" rural. Asking these folks to give up cars is an insane prospect.
Paved roads don't just naturally occur, though. That lifestyle is already an insane prospect, unsustainabke but for the large tax subsidy required to enable it.
I live in the U.S. That comment is 100% true, no matter where one lives.
Building out transit and infrastructure takes time. In the meanwhile, people still have to get places.
I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, but continuing to say that as a reason not to work towards that goal makes no sense
And isn't necessarily the best approach
Great, lmk when there's a regular train from Boston to my office in Boxborough, which currently requires it's residents to drop off their own trash at the facility. I'm sure that'll be frequent and efficient right?