How do you make someone understand that being drafted by force and ordered to invade another country is not a good thing?
As title, if you have post or link any useful resource you have
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As title, if you have post or link any useful resource you have
So, veteran here. I've tried to talk people out of joining the military or at least trying to avoid jobs with high probability of seeing combat. Usually the result is they just start prying about what combat is like and make statements about how much they want to experience it.
Another tack I haven't tried but it might be more effective, is to describe how miserable it is to have the stench of a burn pit wafting over you, always wondering if the distant gunfire will move in your direction, being stuck manning a 24/7 watch where if even one person who can do that job dies or is otherwise incapacitated you will be stuck doing 12hr shifts instead of 8. Then you get back home and have to fight tooth and nail for benefits from the country that fucked your life up in the first place.
War is hell, coming home is hell, forcing that on someone can only be justified if they are literally at home fighting off an invading force.
Empire propaganda must be real good if this commenter has to say this out loud
It's not the propaganda that's good, SunZu.
It's the poverty. Tens of millions of young people in this country have no other way out of debt or to move upward economically.
It IS the propaganda that makes people decide that the military is a way out of poverty and not just another trap OF poverty. If there weren't recruiters in every poor neighbourhood's school, people might decide that joining a mission or Greenpeace or digging wells in Africa for a charity is their "only way" out of poverty.
I have to disagree a little bit, as, at least in the US, there are some really great perks associated with miltary service. GI bill and VA home loans are some of the bigger perks, but theres plenty of smaller perks as well (if you know where to look).
Dont get me wrong, these benefits shouldn't have to be "earned", but one doesnt necessarily have to put themselves in harms way (or sacrifice their morals) to get those benefits. For example, I enlisted in the Coast Guard Reserve at 18 and picked IT as my "rate". I often joke that i picked the "lowest form" of miltary service, but Bush's illegal war in Afghanistan was in full swing at the time and I wanted nothing to do with it, so I justified my choice with, "I'd rather help save people, then help kill people."
As i joined the reserves, i was able to skip the otherwise mandatory time in service requirements for IT school, and went right after bootcamp. After training, i got stationed with my permanent reserve unit in my home town. Less then a month later i secured an entry level IT job, and have been in the industry ever since. A few years after that, I bought my first house with a VA loan.
While i was in, my service obligation was ludicrously easy. One weekend a month I'd shave and cut my hair, throw on a uniform, and do the same job I'd been doing in my civilian life for the weekend (when there was work to do anyway, we fucked off A LOT). Further, working in both private sector and government IT gave me some really useful perspective that helped me accelerate both my civilian and government careers.
Last thing ill mention is that, presumably due to my ADD, I tend to excel in a job in the first couple years, but eventually get bored and start slackin. CG deployments (at least for IT folks), were very rarely mandatory, but there was usually enough going on that if you wanted to deploy, you just had to say so. Because of this, if i started to feel bored at my civilian role, I'd just throw my name in the hat for a set of orders (ranging from 2-12 months in duration), travel the country on the governmwnt dime, work on some cool shit, maybe learn something, then go back to my civilian job feeling rejuvinated and wanting to apply what i learned. In case you dont know, employers are federally required to keep your position available for when you return (for up to 5 years). Also, depending on the orders, you'd often make more money then active duty folks doing the same job because you'd receive BAH to pay your rent/mortgage at home, while also receiving per diem based on the location of your orders.
Anyway, not trying to sound like a recruiter, but you dont have to sell your soul to get those bennies.
Thank you for adding information to my reply.
Sunny top secret art of war zeroth rule: Don’t get in a war idiot.
I believe abolish someone rights is never a good thing. If you are fighting against someone that wants to take these away you have even more reason to respect these rights and stand for them.
I see you'd rather die kneeling than standing.
I see you’re confusing a state with a people.
Do you think the people of Ukraine want to be invaded by Russia?
You know the same Russia that is constantly killing loads of civilians and is repressing their own people.
I’m sure many eastern Ukrainians who were getting killed and repressed by their own people for a decade did. Some of them explicitly requested Russian intervention.
.
The post-2014 coup annexation of Crimea want as smoothly as it did because many of the residents wanted it.
Why didn't they just move to Russia if they liked Russia more?
Either way that does in no way justify the Russian total invasion attempt and the murder of thousands of innocents.
So do you think Russia was in the right to invade Ukraine?
I don’t really know what Russia ought to have done, but the US knowingly put Russia between a rock and a hard place. How would the US have reacted if Russia was creeping a “defensive” alliance toward the US’ border and orchestrated a Mexican coup?
So you refuse to answer the question of whether you think Russia broke international law with a war of aggression by invading Ukraine?
Huh. Seems weird. Almost as if you're avoiding taking a stance. I wonder what would make you be avoidant of that particular question and motivate you to question the legitimacy of the conflict Russia started but is currently losing?
You should know that we ban people who stalk others to downvote them.
"We"? Yes, I know you're a mod. I'm shaking. That makes this avoidance of your way worse.
Disagreeing with someone isn't against the rules, is it? How about intimidating others with implications of "if I don't like what you say, I'll ban you"?
You should know I disapprove of people who refuse to acknowledge Russia broke international law with a war of aggression when they invaded Ukraine.
Downvoting things you disagree with is one thing, pettily downvoting everything someone posts regardless of content is quite another: it’s harassment, and it’s not a good look.
Whether Russia broke international laws by invading isn’t even a point of debate: I’ve yet to encounter a single person who thinks otherwise. If that’s the point you’re trying to make then congratulations Captain Obvious.
This is a two day old thread buried under “View all comments,” which no one is going to read, so your debate-me-bro-ing is a waste of exactly two people’s time.
Then you're an absolute dogshit mod, either not looking or not recognising Russian trolls who are plentiful even on Lemmy.
So you're still refusing to answer the question?
It's amazing the shit rich old people can convince poor young people to die saying
edit: meant to say 'rich young people on computers thousands of miles away cheering on other people's deaths'
I invite all of you chickenhawk nazi lovers to go die charging a trench in the place of someone who doesn't support your cause and doesn't want to die.
What do you mean by nazi? And wtf is a chickenhawk?
I proudly went through conscription in Finland, because we know what Russia was capable of.
So who are these Nazis you speak of?
You're from Finland and you have to ask where the nazis are?
I don't, but apparently you do.
So who exactly are you calling nazis?
Literal nazis who wear nazi symbols on their persons and anyone who positively associates with them or supports them
Your trash talk is incoherent. You don't have to ask but I do? My dimwitted child, you are the one asking.
You're the one who said "you chickenhawk nazi lovers."
It's not unreasonable to ask for elaboration for such an incoherent attempt at an insult.
Just because it went over your head (how???) doesn't make it incoherent.
Do you even know what that word means or are you just mad I used it on you appropriately?
Since I very clearly expressed I've gone through conscription, enjoyed it, and am currently a NCO in the Finnish reserves, very willing to defend my country militarily, but you assert you're "using the term appropriately", I have to deduce that you're probably using the gay slang term "chicken hawk", meaning you're assuming I'm gay, I'm an "older male", and into twinks?
Also, then you agree that nazis are either actual neonazis, or possibly the current horrid fascists like Putler and Netanyahu.
I'm pro-Palestine and pro-Ukrainian, mostly straight, not even in my 40's and in the Finnish reserves, and I'm definitely not an actual bird, so... in what was your asinine babbling "appropriate"?
Hey now, the Finns dropped their Nazi symbology way back in… four years ago.
Since you're very fond of listing links and sources, I'll show you how argumenting is actually done. (Since your link lists were nothing but "I hope you never read any of these because they're not actually even related and I can't come up with an actual argument.)
You misuse the word "symbology".
Likeness in symbols representing different things aren't two different things using the same symbology, they're the same symbol which represents a different thing.
We've been using the Swastika since the Iron Age. When did they form the Nazi party again?
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakaristi_Suomessa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_use_of_the_swastika_in_the_early_20th_century
Awkward how you pretend to be so knowledgable, yet make these cringe "arguments", because I made you upset by asking you whether you're pro-Russian or not. Something which you absolutely refuse to answer. Weird, huh?