This is good advice on it's face, but what if you're living in a country full of Nazis?
Like, let's say - hypothetically - the cops are Nazis. And all your mass media is full of Nazi agitprop. And friends and family are periodically repeating Nazis talking points. And you are feeling increasingly isolated by the sheer madness of the outside world.
Hypothetically, of course.
"What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?" - Ursula K. Le Guin
Have you considered moving?
Sadly, I'm an English speaker so I'm very limited in my options.
You mean the most widespread language on earth?
But you always have the option to learn another language. It just takes some effort. It is easier to do than it ever has been before in history.
Finding an employer to sponsor you in most countries is exceedingly difficult for most Americans. We can't just move, unfortunately. There are strict immigration laws in most countries.
There were entire subreddits dedicated to this topic in the before-days. We need a Lemmy community for this complex topic.
Unless they've changed policy in the last six months, Portugal will take nearly anyone with stable remote work and fast track them to EU citizenship. This was/is the most viable choice for US citizens.
You are thinking of their nomad visa (D8) which takes 5 years and requires a monthly income of at least $3200 Eur/mo. The problem has always been getting a U.S. employer to allow you to work remote AND out of country.
HR and payroll departments absolutely hate letting remote workers live outside the country because it makes tax liabilities and benefits complicated for them. So, it's quite rare to find a U.S. company that will do it. Even most multi-national megacorps are assholes about it.
But, if you are a successful freelancer with a very reliable income from non-Portuguese sources, then this may be an option. Most of us don't fit that bill, unfortunately. Hell, most Americans struggle just to get a hybrid work situation. The idea of international remote or stable freelancing is quite a tall order.
When I pursued it there was a provision for the administrative tax burden of the employer. My employer withheld as usual for a US worker, then I would also need to file and post-pay Portugal's taxes.
Double taxation; an employer comfortable with it; new culture; national economic issues: I agree it's a tall order for the vast majority of Americans. And, it also seemed the most viable option. I think we agree that emmigration is quite difficult.
Double taxation; an employer comfortable with it; new culture; national economic issues: I agree it's a tall order for the vast majority of Americans. And, it also seemed the most viable option.
Every H1B worker has this. This is normal; and was for me personally for years.
Having obtained a green card and come home, some of my family still owe American taxes every year for that 1% more they pay, without them or us getting anything for that higher tax, and despite not setting foot on American soil since before Trump. Maybe never again, given the human rights issues, but that's another thing. We pay a pro who knows both countries, and that's a few bucks each year on top.
You're worried about treading a Very familiar path.
Many are readily importing my skillset. But, then I'd have to go back to corporate slavery.
I'm worried about the inaccessibility of the freedom to choose for the vast majority of Americans.
Come to New Zealand.
We still have Nazis but they spend all their energy on hating the Māori population.
Thats ok, us Maori spend our whole time hating normal kiwis, who then hate nazis. They just need to slot in and direct theirs in the right direction (/s).
I mean, what are they really going to do - deport us back home? Actually don't answer that, they may try it.
I realised after posting that my post could easily be read contrary to what I meant too; it could easily read like I'm minimising the problems Māori face (TL;DR: colonisation).
I was trying to imply that an immigrant could be spared attention from our Nazis because the Nazis are already busy being Nazis to Māori.
It's not like our government has spent the last 150 years being Nazis... Ah shit.
All good - I actually wish some of us would stop using the last 150 years as an excuse. Did we have to deal with alot of shit - absolutely, and a not 0 ammout is still ongoing. But FFS, the opportunities are there if you stop using it as an excuse to not do better.
My ancestors spent generations screwing over Māori, maybe not personally (I don't know) but I'm not prepared to give them a pass on it.
I'm quite happy to let some laziness slide or some rules being taken advantage of or me personally having some tax dollars pent when it's making up for generations of actual evil.
I've been studying our history and it's pretty fucked... It's not what we got taught in school.
Oh, im aware. Lots of stuff we thought was limited to American colonization, education that has since been whitewashed to make it sound not as bad as it was, and general comments that miss most of the story. Even at the high school level.
You are not responsible for the actions of your ancestors, regardless of how direct or indirect it was. The flip side is that I did not suffer that treatment, and therefore can no blame my life and actions on it. Very different viewpoint to a number of my iwi, who are still stuck in the take take take and I'm owed mindset. Screwing over the next generation with their excuses.
Didn't the country's government get a little dark for a term? How's that working?
It fucking sucks.
Find yourself a nice blue city and move into the suburbs. Lots of good jobs too.
You can go to literally any city in Earth and find many English speakers. Estimates are 1.5 - 2 billion people on earth are Anglophones.
You can go to literally any city in Earth and find many English speakers.
I've traveled to numerous cities in Europe and East Asia and visited many places where little to no English was spoken.
You can usually find a handful of people in a major business center who specifically cater to foreign visitors, if you're willing to spend extra for the privilege. But get outside the center of Paris or Berlin or Malmo or Shanghai or Tokyo, and its very easy to find yourself amid a sea of people who have no idea how to understand you much less respond.
Yes, there are call centers in Manila or Taipei where tens of thousands of people have to speak English for their jobs. Yes, the entire staff of the The Palm in Dubai is fluent. No, that's not really helpful if you're out in the suburbs of Brussels or living as a student in Seoul. If you need to call a plumber because the sink of your flat in Palermo sprung a leak, there's a very good chance you're going to be explaining the problem in Italian or in very elaborate hand gestures.
If it comes to your life, you really may need to learn another language. It happens anyway, move to a new place with a reasonable population of foreign language speakers and you'll start picking up some words here and there.
I don't know your situation, just wish you luck, and remember to forward that same welcoming other communities may share with you to others in the future. You may not be the only one intent on escaping.
If it comes to your life, you really may need to learn another language.
Sure. But then moving from Berlin to Krakow isn't necessarily going to save you from the imperial march.
Also, not a trivial thing to accomplish. It's a bit like telling a 40 year old who has never learned to swim to brush up real quick before we push you off the side of the boat.
I don’t know your situation
I mean, for the most part I'm fine. This is all hypothetical, right up until it isn't. But "you should just learn an extra language maybe?" isn't what I'd call a practical response to the problem of a fascist local government.
Yeah, it's definitely not trivial, but not impossible, and the relocation may even be a temporary situation. I only suggested taking the leap regardless because that seemed to be your trend, "I'd like to leave but perhaps the language barrier is too intense", to paraphrase.
And you're right that it won't stop the march. I don't intend to give up my country to fascists. Some people, just due to physical ailments etc, may need to leave vs fight and that's ok too.
Yeah, it’s definitely not trivial, but not impossible
I'd go so far as to say "incredibly difficult, expensive, and time consuming to do well".
Some people, just due to physical ailments etc, may need to leave vs fight and that’s ok too.
Oh, absolutely. Know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em.
I just see a lot of fascist tendency building up in English-speaking corners of the world. That 1.5-2.0B English speakers figure isn't a great solution when it just means moving from Fascism HQ to Franchise Fascism. The spots with the most English speakers - India, Nigeria, Pakistan, the UK, and the Philippines are plagued by some deeply reactionary domestic situations.
It's a tight spot to be, is all.
Tbh, if that's the case then, I will just join in a Marxist group that is serious about arm resistance. I'm too poor to move out anyway.
Complain about it online and hope someone else does something about it, as far as I can tell.
If you're seeing Nazis everywhere, then definitely move.
But be careful. In my country, anti-authoritarism dog whistling has made Nazis out of anyone who gives out a parking ticket or tells ya not to drink on that section of the park with your glass bottles. Every fire marshall is a fascist, every doctor a Mengele, every cop a thug.
But this isn't TV. They're not. Maybe everyone you see isn't a Nazi but a misguided voter who's fallen for some populist grift. Stay and help limit the spread of that taint; even if it's just by laughing at the racists and alpha chads.
And if you're going to have an overstuffed gathering for the indoor fireworks show at your apartment, make sure you're not sick and also don't park there.
You know what's crazy? People who are Nazis would say exactly this about the "Woke" Society. They see no difference in accepting Trans people and killing minorities. Just take a sharp look at the conservative narrative.
"Green Fascist's with woke ideology" to what about their way of live.
People who are Nazis would say exactly this about the “Woke” Society.
It reminds me of the left/right split during the Iranian Revolution. Folks love to post pictures of "Before 1979" with the wealthy kids of the industrial elites dressed like EU/US fashionistas. Iranian progressives saw this as a privilege of the elites that shouldn't be exclusive to the upper end of society. Iranian conservatives saw it as a symptom of elitism that shouldn't be permitted at any tier of society.
After the revolution, conservative Iranians (very briefly) aligned with conservative Americans, as the Ayatollah and the Reagan/Thatcher governments aligned on this idea of regressive religious anti-Communism. But then Iran didn't open itself back up as a western gas station, so the American white supremacists and the Iranian Islamic supremacists fell back into conflict again.
Then it was just two ultra-orthodox conservative groups screaming "Woke Decadent Radicals!" at one another, while everyone around them were ground to paste by the slew of wars to follow.
Awesome explanation. The similarities are striking. I don't understand why people have the tendency to interfere with others lives. Conservatives have a fetish for this.
I don’t understand why people have the tendency to interfere with others lives
Codifying cultural norms into law is a normal part of politics. The big question is what you want to normalize.
So why do they want to codify stuff they don't want to follow?
How man conservative Republicans had an abortion, but it was different in their case?
The inconsistency makes me believe it's not about politics.
So why do they want to codify stuff they don’t want to follow?
Selective enforcement. You use the law to pursue your political opposition. Planned Parenthood is a major organizing tool for liberal Democrats, so crushing the organization in your city/state means disrupting how Democrats fundraise and GOTV. Meanwhile, Republican-aligned physicians and unorganized back-alley clinics can provide your daughter or mistress the procedure on the DL.
Yeah. I forgot they are incapable to feel positive emotions for "people in the other cult"... while they are a homogeneous mass compared with the heterogenous multicultural chaos that is,... Literally everyone else who is not aligned with Nazis.
This is good advice on it's face, but what if you're living in a country full of Nazis?
Like, let's say - hypothetically - the cops are Nazis. And all your mass media is full of Nazi agitprop. And friends and family are periodically repeating Nazis talking points. And you are feeling increasingly isolated by the sheer madness of the outside world.
Hypothetically, of course.
Have you considered moving?
Sadly, I'm an English speaker so I'm very limited in my options.
You mean the most widespread language on earth?
But you always have the option to learn another language. It just takes some effort. It is easier to do than it ever has been before in history.
Finding an employer to sponsor you in most countries is exceedingly difficult for most Americans. We can't just move, unfortunately. There are strict immigration laws in most countries.
There were entire subreddits dedicated to this topic in the before-days. We need a Lemmy community for this complex topic.
Unless they've changed policy in the last six months, Portugal will take nearly anyone with stable remote work and fast track them to EU citizenship. This was/is the most viable choice for US citizens.
You are thinking of their nomad visa (D8) which takes 5 years and requires a monthly income of at least $3200 Eur/mo. The problem has always been getting a U.S. employer to allow you to work remote AND out of country.
HR and payroll departments absolutely hate letting remote workers live outside the country because it makes tax liabilities and benefits complicated for them. So, it's quite rare to find a U.S. company that will do it. Even most multi-national megacorps are assholes about it.
But, if you are a successful freelancer with a very reliable income from non-Portuguese sources, then this may be an option. Most of us don't fit that bill, unfortunately. Hell, most Americans struggle just to get a hybrid work situation. The idea of international remote or stable freelancing is quite a tall order.
When I pursued it there was a provision for the administrative tax burden of the employer. My employer withheld as usual for a US worker, then I would also need to file and post-pay Portugal's taxes.
Double taxation; an employer comfortable with it; new culture; national economic issues: I agree it's a tall order for the vast majority of Americans. And, it also seemed the most viable option. I think we agree that emmigration is quite difficult.
Every H1B worker has this. This is normal; and was for me personally for years.
Having obtained a green card and come home, some of my family still owe American taxes every year for that 1% more they pay, without them or us getting anything for that higher tax, and despite not setting foot on American soil since before Trump. Maybe never again, given the human rights issues, but that's another thing. We pay a pro who knows both countries, and that's a few bucks each year on top.
You're worried about treading a Very familiar path.
Many are readily importing my skillset. But, then I'd have to go back to corporate slavery.
I'm worried about the inaccessibility of the freedom to choose for the vast majority of Americans.
Come to New Zealand.
We still have Nazis but they spend all their energy on hating the Māori population.
Thats ok, us Maori spend our whole time hating normal kiwis, who then hate nazis. They just need to slot in and direct theirs in the right direction (/s).
I mean, what are they really going to do - deport us back home? Actually don't answer that, they may try it.
I realised after posting that my post could easily be read contrary to what I meant too; it could easily read like I'm minimising the problems Māori face (TL;DR: colonisation).
I was trying to imply that an immigrant could be spared attention from our Nazis because the Nazis are already busy being Nazis to Māori.
It's not like our government has spent the last 150 years being Nazis... Ah shit.
All good - I actually wish some of us would stop using the last 150 years as an excuse. Did we have to deal with alot of shit - absolutely, and a not 0 ammout is still ongoing. But FFS, the opportunities are there if you stop using it as an excuse to not do better.
My ancestors spent generations screwing over Māori, maybe not personally (I don't know) but I'm not prepared to give them a pass on it.
I'm quite happy to let some laziness slide or some rules being taken advantage of or me personally having some tax dollars pent when it's making up for generations of actual evil.
I've been studying our history and it's pretty fucked... It's not what we got taught in school.
Oh, im aware. Lots of stuff we thought was limited to American colonization, education that has since been whitewashed to make it sound not as bad as it was, and general comments that miss most of the story. Even at the high school level.
You are not responsible for the actions of your ancestors, regardless of how direct or indirect it was. The flip side is that I did not suffer that treatment, and therefore can no blame my life and actions on it. Very different viewpoint to a number of my iwi, who are still stuck in the take take take and I'm owed mindset. Screwing over the next generation with their excuses.
Didn't the country's government get a little dark for a term? How's that working?
It fucking sucks.
Find yourself a nice blue city and move into the suburbs. Lots of good jobs too.
You can go to literally any city in Earth and find many English speakers. Estimates are 1.5 - 2 billion people on earth are Anglophones.
I've traveled to numerous cities in Europe and East Asia and visited many places where little to no English was spoken.
You can usually find a handful of people in a major business center who specifically cater to foreign visitors, if you're willing to spend extra for the privilege. But get outside the center of Paris or Berlin or Malmo or Shanghai or Tokyo, and its very easy to find yourself amid a sea of people who have no idea how to understand you much less respond.
Yes, there are call centers in Manila or Taipei where tens of thousands of people have to speak English for their jobs. Yes, the entire staff of the The Palm in Dubai is fluent. No, that's not really helpful if you're out in the suburbs of Brussels or living as a student in Seoul. If you need to call a plumber because the sink of your flat in Palermo sprung a leak, there's a very good chance you're going to be explaining the problem in Italian or in very elaborate hand gestures.
If it comes to your life, you really may need to learn another language. It happens anyway, move to a new place with a reasonable population of foreign language speakers and you'll start picking up some words here and there.
I don't know your situation, just wish you luck, and remember to forward that same welcoming other communities may share with you to others in the future. You may not be the only one intent on escaping.
Sure. But then moving from Berlin to Krakow isn't necessarily going to save you from the imperial march.
Also, not a trivial thing to accomplish. It's a bit like telling a 40 year old who has never learned to swim to brush up real quick before we push you off the side of the boat.
I mean, for the most part I'm fine. This is all hypothetical, right up until it isn't. But "you should just learn an extra language maybe?" isn't what I'd call a practical response to the problem of a fascist local government.
Yeah, it's definitely not trivial, but not impossible, and the relocation may even be a temporary situation. I only suggested taking the leap regardless because that seemed to be your trend, "I'd like to leave but perhaps the language barrier is too intense", to paraphrase.
And you're right that it won't stop the march. I don't intend to give up my country to fascists. Some people, just due to physical ailments etc, may need to leave vs fight and that's ok too.
I'd go so far as to say "incredibly difficult, expensive, and time consuming to do well".
Oh, absolutely. Know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em.
I just see a lot of fascist tendency building up in English-speaking corners of the world. That 1.5-2.0B English speakers figure isn't a great solution when it just means moving from Fascism HQ to Franchise Fascism. The spots with the most English speakers - India, Nigeria, Pakistan, the UK, and the Philippines are plagued by some deeply reactionary domestic situations.
It's a tight spot to be, is all.
Tbh, if that's the case then, I will just join in a Marxist group that is serious about arm resistance. I'm too poor to move out anyway.
Complain about it online and hope someone else does something about it, as far as I can tell.
If you're seeing Nazis everywhere, then definitely move.
But be careful. In my country, anti-authoritarism dog whistling has made Nazis out of anyone who gives out a parking ticket or tells ya not to drink on that section of the park with your glass bottles. Every fire marshall is a fascist, every doctor a Mengele, every cop a thug.
But this isn't TV. They're not. Maybe everyone you see isn't a Nazi but a misguided voter who's fallen for some populist grift. Stay and help limit the spread of that taint; even if it's just by laughing at the racists and alpha chads.
And if you're going to have an overstuffed gathering for the indoor fireworks show at your apartment, make sure you're not sick and also don't park there.
You know what's crazy? People who are Nazis would say exactly this about the "Woke" Society. They see no difference in accepting Trans people and killing minorities. Just take a sharp look at the conservative narrative.
"Green Fascist's with woke ideology" to what about their way of live.
It reminds me of the left/right split during the Iranian Revolution. Folks love to post pictures of "Before 1979" with the wealthy kids of the industrial elites dressed like EU/US fashionistas. Iranian progressives saw this as a privilege of the elites that shouldn't be exclusive to the upper end of society. Iranian conservatives saw it as a symptom of elitism that shouldn't be permitted at any tier of society.
After the revolution, conservative Iranians (very briefly) aligned with conservative Americans, as the Ayatollah and the Reagan/Thatcher governments aligned on this idea of regressive religious anti-Communism. But then Iran didn't open itself back up as a western gas station, so the American white supremacists and the Iranian Islamic supremacists fell back into conflict again.
Then it was just two ultra-orthodox conservative groups screaming "Woke Decadent Radicals!" at one another, while everyone around them were ground to paste by the slew of wars to follow.
Awesome explanation. The similarities are striking. I don't understand why people have the tendency to interfere with others lives. Conservatives have a fetish for this.
Codifying cultural norms into law is a normal part of politics. The big question is what you want to normalize.
So why do they want to codify stuff they don't want to follow?
How man conservative Republicans had an abortion, but it was different in their case? The inconsistency makes me believe it's not about politics.
Selective enforcement. You use the law to pursue your political opposition. Planned Parenthood is a major organizing tool for liberal Democrats, so crushing the organization in your city/state means disrupting how Democrats fundraise and GOTV. Meanwhile, Republican-aligned physicians and unorganized back-alley clinics can provide your daughter or mistress the procedure on the DL.
Yeah. I forgot they are incapable to feel positive emotions for "people in the other cult"... while they are a homogeneous mass compared with the heterogenous multicultural chaos that is,... Literally everyone else who is not aligned with Nazis.