Hezbollah: Attacks IDF soldiers in base and kills only a soldier
Israel: Kills entire family in a home including two children to kill one soldier
Most moral army strikes again.
Their attacks also killed and injured several Israeli civilians, Hezbollah is not a lovely freedom fighting group that is careful to only target military bases.
This article says that they hit one israeli soldier. If a soldier on any side dies I don't really care as they've both signed up for it. Just leave the civilians out of it.
This article yes, but I live here and can tell you that the drone infiltrations and anti-tank missile launches by Hezbollah are happening throughout the day, every single day in the north of Israel. That’s why almost all civilians in the north have relocated to the center, driving up rent prices to unbearable levels for everybody. There are though, thankfully, thousands of households that opened up their homes to shelter and support their fellow citizens from the north and around the Gaza border.
Rocket sirens have calmed down a lot near the Gaza border (probably thanks to the IDF neutralizing more than half of Hamas forces by now), they happen only once every few days and they no longer reach the center of Israel these days. At least for now.
Geez if only Hezbollah gave a direct condition that would stop their attacks.
Something about a Schemocide in Schmaza I think...
they've both signed up for it
Fuck no they didn't. Army service is compulsory in Israel, from age 18 and lasts over 2 years (back when I served it was 3 years for men and 2 years for women, but it has changed in the last decade and I don't know the amount now)
I don't know about Lebanon.
Then vote in a government that ends that. Soldiers are acceptable targets, civilians are not.
I did. My vote didn't do shit - the party I voted for didn't pass the threshold. For the first time ever, I might add. Their absence might be the very thing that caused the current abysmal government to form. And I participated in the MASSIVE protests last year after that happened.
You can refuse it like some israeli 18 year olds did.
Conscription is irrelevant as they were active soldiers on a military base. They were not reservists.
"I was just following order" is some shit from 1945 nobody cares.
As for refusing - it's a fucking explosive topic. Some populations do it more than others. Some populations - Haredim - just don't serve as a rule, not because of any good argument but because ThEy HavE To sTuDy ThE BIbLe!!!!! (it's one of the topics that put us on the verge of civil war last year)
For non-insane people though, refusing military service is akin to refusing to pay taxes. It works sometimes, but good fucking luck, and most people don't do it.
"they were not reservists" - exactly. Let me clarify this point.
You are forced by law to serve in the military as an active soldier at age 18. Virtually Israeli soldiers ranked Corporal, Sergeant and Staff Sergeant are in this mandatory serving period. This is active duty, not reserve duty, and the "active soldier" you mentioned is very likely to be this (I don't know how to verify this).
You generally have to follow orders and you don't get to decide what role you'll be doing (although there are ways to affect it, I won't get into it).
There are some who then stay longer, become officers, have a military career, whatever. I'm not discussing those as this bit is similar to voluntary military service in most countries.
The majority of people who finish the mandatory active duty are then released from the army, but depending on their role they remain reservists - they go live the civilian life, and every once in a while they must basically serve for a few days to both pitch in and keep up their own readiness. I'm not familiar with the details of how this works because, lucky me, I was released without reserve duty as my role didn't have much value for reserve.
And of course, at times of war, mass reservist connections ensue. But active duty from age 18 is still active duty, not reserve.
Hope that clarifies it.
I know all of this of course, but then you either take the jail or demand asylum from israel.
Conscription is irrelevant as they were active soldiers on a military base. They were not reservists.
It is literally conscription.
OK so Ukrainians can't kill Russian conscripts?
Israelis somehow need the most protected status in the world while literally being in the army lol.
I never said anything other than your first statement being wrong - that they chose to be there. That's it. I didn't - and won't - say anything about what's okay or not.
You do get some jail time if you simply refuse to serve though. Unless you have strong psychological or physical reasons that prevent you from serving. Men and women both need to serve, the Israeli (and worldwide Jewish) population is very small relatively.
Israeli warmongers: Hamas and Hezbollah both start with H.
Or maybe they forgot Gaza is in the southwest, not in the north.
Or maybe, just maybe, the Lebanese forgot to condemn Hamas.
If you didn't need a reminder that this was never about the hostages.
Hostages also start with H
And they killed the hostages thinking they were Palestinian civilians.
They thought they were Hamas terrorists, not Palestinian civilians. Because Hamas often times disguise themselves as civilians in order to attack. Including when conducting stabbing or car ramming attacks within Israel against Israeli civilians.
Yeah those 15,000 children the IDF murdered were all completely indiscernable from adults. Couldn't have been avoided.
Didn't you hear, Hamas rides single file to hide their numbers
That’s not what I was talking about and I do not easily dismiss the civilian casualties on either side. I would advise not taking the statistics that Hamas puts out at face value. We can talk about the number of casualties on both sides once the war is over, the dust settles and an accurate count can be made, preferably by an independent reliable source, not Hamas and probably not the IDF. It took Israel months to identify all the victims of October 7 and revised their total death count from about 1400 to 1200. In addition, it is an extremely densely populated region engaged in urban warfare against a terrorist military group (Hamas) that follows no rules whatsoever.
Look everyone, once we've finished ethnic cleansing the Palestinian people and expelled almost all of them from their homeland or killed them, then we can talk about it. Maybe we'll even make a sad movie or a scholarship or something, like the Americans do with the Native Americans. Until then, no one is allowed to criticize us. Because it's antisemitic, and also every single Palestinian is Hamas and Hamas deserves to die. Therefore...
You are fully allowed to talk about it and criticize us, I was just suggesting not trusting stats from a terror organization. Not all Palestinians are Hamas. Hamas does deserve to die.
Not in America you're not. You get called antisemitic. You have to sign loyalty pledges to say you don't believe in BDS. You lose your job or get your university clubs disbanded. Although at least you don't get arrested like saying that stuff in Israel.
And the stats from Israel can be trusted? Your government lies their ass off every chance they get. Then they kill all the UN people who enter or the journalists and use the fog of war as an excuse to genocide everyone since no one can get any information from the ground. We're lucky people have cell phones now so we can see all the atrocities with own eyes, send that some journalists are brave enough to stay despite their family and coworkers dying.
And you guys don't care that not all Palestinians are Hamas since you can still use the excuse that there's a Hamas hiding behind every one of them to kill them all. That doesn't give you the moral high ground. Even the US didn't kill that many civilians in our last few wars in Afghanistan or Iraq, but I guess we weren't trying to do another settler colonialism there, so we had the advantage of not trying to ethnic cleanse the local population off the land.
Yep. Ok. America is the best at war. Good luck to you.
That's my point. It's not a war. It's a slaughter. Israel is trying to make it seem like a war but when you compare the number of casualties, it's very clearly one-sided. The side with a big military and the most advanced weapon technology vs some terrorists and civilians, no wonder.
And approaching it like a war doesn't work, you're just going to get more terrorists (unless the Israeli plan is actually full on genocide). The US figured that out the hard way already after 9/11,too, so I'm not saying they're that much better or anything. You have to let people be free and then negotiate with them. No oppressed people are ever happy to stay that way. You have to fight them forever. And while that was clearly the Israel plan up to now, it seems you don't accept the risks of a 10/7 happening every now and then. It's a natural consequence, like the occasional slave revolt in the US pre-civil war.
That leaves two options. Israel can allow Palestinian sovereignty and equal human rights, without having the removal of Hamas as a precondition. Work together to take them out after removing normal Palestinians as an enemy by granting freedom, human rights, allowing supplies in, stop expanding in the West Bank, allow some right to return andetc. Working together as allies instead of as an occupier (the UK approach with the IRA or the South African approach). Or alternatively, full on genocide (the approach in North America and Australia), which a lot of people don't agree with for what should be an obvious reason. Because bombing Hamas to death doesn't work, you're just making more terrorists, and have been since the main Zionist plan became the revisionist one of kicking people out their homes and taking their land. Either they know that and are happy with an endless war at the cost of innocent lives, or they're planning on genocide or ethnic cleansing, or they're naive.
Is the health ministry Hamas? Are the non MSF doctors Hamas?
Yes. 2. Some yes.
Hamas is a reliable source because Hamas is not a terrorist organization.
The militant wing of Hamas uses terrorist tactics. Hamas is the government of the Gaza strip. As is everyone who works for them. But the militant wing is very separate from the governmental wing. This allows the Israels to claim they killed a Hamas member and people thing they've killed a militant, when in reality they just murdered a garbage collector, or census taker.
The garbage collector? Hamas.
The doctors that aren't MSF? Hamas.
The pencil pushing hospital administrator? Hamas.
Finally, since you're a child-murder denying Israel fanatic, who should we believe? Israel's numbers? They're HIGHER! They just claim every child killed is Hamas.
The Gaza Health ministry knows their numbers will always be questioned, so they only release numbers for people proven to be dead.
People buried under rubble from Israels indiscriminate bombing campaign? Not counted.
Wow. I’m out
That argument provides "justification" to kill any civilian.
Your words not mine.
Are you fine with allowing them to set the bar that low though?
No. And look, to be honest I never understood why some people claim that Israel is purposefully targeting civilians. They are not, and the mortality rate of terrorist/civilians is some of the best if not the best in any modern urban war anywhere. Hamas just reports every death as civilian, and men of ages up to 21 as children. Not saying there have been no actual civilians, children and women killed in Gaza, but there is a clear intent to minimize innocent casualties, at least where I’m observing things from.
Also, a few days ago the IDF rescued 2 hostages for the first time, I hope that made international news.
It did but they also killed tens of thousanda of civilians, and more journalists than in any other recent conflict. They are not trying to reduce it at all. You don't displace 1.7 million people or destroy 21 out of 22 hospitals, or bomb escape corridors or refigeee camps, or the last standing city in the region, or kill a bunch of hostages, or prevent the majority of humanitarian aid from being put in, or cut off electricity and gas, or preventing journalists from going in or specifically targeting them, when you're trying to reduce civilian casualties. 2/3 of the deaths are women and children, they're not inflating civilian deaths. It's the opposite. Israel counts every death as Hamas lol. We have a bunch of proof. We'd have more if Israel didn't keep killing journalists.
but there is a clear intent to minimize innocent casualties, at least where I’m observing things from.
What? Hamas and Hezbollah are both attacking Israel what is your point?
Didn't Israel start by bombing Lebanon weeks months ago?
Edit: months, not weeks: Israel bombed southern Lebanon on October 13.
Do you think they bombed Lebanon out of nowhere? Or was it a response to a certain wave of attacks which displaced the entire northern Israeli population?
Given Israel's history of warmongering in Lebanon, I wouldn't be surprised if it was unprovoked.
It was not unprovoked. Hezbollah joined Hamas’s attack from Oct 7
Citation needed.
Nassrallah said several times that they've begun doing this in support of Hamas.
And the recent attack by Israel is a response to Hizballah's attack on Safed.
I'm not quite sure about Lebanon but israel bombed multiple people first, notably Syrian airfields. Multiple times.
Syria even been in this war iirc.
Israel used 7 Oct to attack a whole bunch of people they don't like under the pretense of counter terrorism
Israel is just a shitty warmongering nation.
We in the west focus on Iran but the real blight in the region is Israel.
Really, you’d rather support Iran, a nation where women are beaten and killed for not covering themselves completely? How is Israel the blight in the region, besides being the easy target completely surrounded by countries that hate it for being different aka not Muslim and being a democracy that supports LGBTQ?
Because Israel is an apartheid, settler colonial nation in the middle of an ethnic cleansing campaign and Iran isn't.
I’ll be cheeky and change the meaning of your comment:
Yeah, those Hamas Nazis should fuck off of Israel and the world should stop helping them.
Any government that deals with a population it considers undesirable by withholding food, medicine, and potable water is a government committing genocide.
Disagreement just shows that 'Never Again' didn't mean anything to you.
Fuck off, genocide apologist.
Oh dear
Fine, Tell me what genocide looks like. Tell me the methods that are different.
Tell me what conditions justify a government withholding food, medicine and portable water to a population it considers undesirable.
Tell me.
Justify your morally condescending "Oh dear". Make it actually look like a reasonable response to the very simple definition of genocide that is occurring right now, being imposed by Israel on a population that official members of the Israeli government have expressed as undesirable, whom are living on a strip of land that already has Israeli developers planning beach front property for.
Make it look like something different than genocide justifying nationalism.
Genocide looks like a rapidly decreasing population, not a growing one.
Supplies are still going into Gaza, yes fewer because Hamas is hoarding all of it and withholding it from its civilians. There are even videos of them opening fire on Palestinians that try to get to any of the supply trucks. There are also videos of Palestinians openly accusing Hamas of withholding all aid. I just wish Egypt would open up its border with Gaza to allow Palestinians refuge there but they never will again because of the Islam extremism they had to deal with when they did that.
I haven’t heard that one yet - Israeli developers planning beach front property on Gaza.
Nationalism? Israel is comprised of foreigners from all over the world, it’s like a mini US. Not all Israelis are white, not all Israelis are Jews, not all civilians are Israeli. We even took in 15,000 Ukrainian refugees.
The “oh dear” was for attacking me directly with the “fuck off” and “genocide apologist”.
Nope, first sentence is such a blatant fucking copout. No one outside of Israel restricts genocide to a "decreasing population". It's the intent to destroy and steal land that matters
Zero acknowledgement of Israel's decade long blockade of Gaza, it's always someone else's fault
There’s no blockade, any Gazan can leave whenever. Most of them come in to Israel for work. Or at least used to. Not sure how things will be after this shit show.
The intent to destroy a nation and steal a land is Hamas’s goal, readily visible even on Wikipedia.
Holy shit, you're actually delusional with this comment.
Or, more likely, being way over paid for the shittiest propaganda I've ever seen.
No one believes your lies about this.
No one.
Not even the people sympathetic to Israel will buy this 'there's no blockade, they can leave whenever they want' intestinal gas belching from some orifice that would actually be used for conveying information in a person not paid to lie.
That's because that is what you are, a fucking sick fuck genocidal, child murder justifying monster.
Why would Egypt open up their borders? Why would the Palestinians need refuge? Is some natural disaster happening to starve them to death? Some act of God? Are they just dying for some unknown reason?
You do know that Israel has effective control of the Raffa crossing, right? You know, the place all the blood thirsty fucks are holding a rave to block the aid trucks from going through while the Palestinians literally eat grass. The ones that haven't starved to death, that is, because we've seen the first deaths from starvation hit this week.
Congrats, everyone in the world is going to start treating you like your dearly departed best friends, apartheid South Africa. Remember when everyone else was boycotting them but Israel? When Israel was still selling them weapons to use against their oppressed African population? I wonder how long it will be before we get music videos like this about Israel:
You should have heard about the property developers. Haaretz broke the story.
The Gaza strip needed 2000 trucks a day to survive since Israel has implemented a complete blockade of the Gaza strip for 17 years. An aid truck or two doesn't need to hoarded by Hamas to do anything. What's the math on how many of the 2 million Hazan's that can be fed from a truck or two? How big do you envision these trucks are?
But, I wouldn't expect rational thought from a syphilitic fuck that espouses the same argument that Neo-Nazis use to justify their Holocaust denial. That whole 'population increased' pus oozing from your pustulant lips? Yeah, that's from Holocaust deniers. Do you think the population has increased in Gaza since Israel cut off the food and water and started indiscriminately bombing civilian infrastructure and tent camps in Gaza? Do you actually believe that? If so, I've got some land to sell you, and I totally own it legally, totally. You might want to send some 'settlers' there with some military backup to murder the people currently living there first, though.
Every time I have a conversation with a pro-Palestinian or especially pro-Hamas person, they always end up losing their cool and attacking me. Just like in most pro-Palestine protests, people get violent and attack random Jews on the street or a Starbucks for some reason (there isn’t even Starbucks in Israel). The pro-Israel marches I’ve seen are just people singing the anthem or something. It’s pretty reflective of the entire situation, Israelis aren’t very interested in war, there’s nothing in the Gaza Strip that we need, no resources, no landmarks of interest, just more desert like the rest of our country. But Arabs and Muslims from all around our tiny strip of land simply hate us on a religious basis and want to see us gone. And we’ve no place to go. We won’t just lie down and die. Sorry.
No one is asking you to lay down and die. Good job trying to invoke victim status to again justify genocide.
Also, good job trying to antisemitically equate Judaism with the genocidal actions of the Israeli government. JVP does NOT want to hold your blood stained hands.
Here, try something out, if you actually want to understand, which I don't think you do, but on the off chance.
Imagine you see a nation trying to commit genocide against its minority population of Jewish people that it has kept mostly locked up in a bantustan for the last 17 years. Imagine a citizen of that country who, presumably, isn't actively participating in the slaughter of Jewish people starts trying to garner sympathy for the slaughter, and justify why the slaughter is okay.
Imagine how you'd want to react to that person.
I'm not Arab, just someone who firmly believes in Never Again. I will treat any worthless genocide justifying fuck the same way, as I'm treating you. I have the same disgust and disdain for the Azerbaijani justifying the ethnic cleansing of the Nagorno-Karbagh region. The same Azeris who got a fuck ton of weapons from Israel, by the by. Funny how Israel sides with and provides weapons to the wrong side in history.
I would hope that you would treat people you legitimately believe are committing genocide the same way, but from your words it is obvious that 'Never Again' meant nothing to you, so I suspect you wouldn't.
Also, good job trying to imply protestors against genocide are antisemitic. I don't give a fuck about your religion, or your ethnicity. I care about your disgusting actions and words.
Well, as long as you are 100% certain you are on the right side of history, you do you man. Just try not to hurt anybody.
I'd say the same, except your country is already hurting people. 35+k people already. Somewhere around 2/3 of which are women and children.
If you go by Israels numbers, it's even more.
Finally, I will say something that should terrify you.
Israel has zero strategic depth. Anyone invades, and it is very quickly over. Again, nothing to do with religion or ethnicity, just geography. Israel is just too small to have strategic depth.
One major shield that Israel had (other than the nukes) was a myth of martial superiority and invincibility. However, for obvious reasons, Israels main strength lies in its armor, and its air force.
But technology always is changing how useful certain weapons are. And technology for the weapons that destroy armor and air superiority has gotten insanely cheap. Raspberry Pi's should rightly be terrifying to any nation that relies on armor and planes. Avionics has always been the difficult part for air defense.
Armor is a little bit different. The design of the weapons that can penetrate armor, and defeat things like reactive armor, or the imbecilic trophy system Israel uses (seriously, I still shake my head at Israel entering dense urban areas with tanks that use an interception system that literally makes screening infantry impossible. Like, what the actual fuck?!) is the expensive part. Once the design is completed for things like two stage rockets, or shaped charges, or explosively formed projectiles, then the actual production is cheap to produce. But designs are easy to transmit, and can be done anywhere by anyone.
The tech has gotten so cheap that even second rate military powers can buy or create weapons that can counter first rate military powers advantages for literally a millionth of the price.
And Israels siege and assault on the Gaza Strip has shown how fucking incompetent and undisciplined Israels infantry is. The majority of the casualties of Gazan civilians are from bombs, artillery, and soon now, starvation. Not the infantry. Their performance has been ... pathetic. Only good for slaughtering the unarmed.
The myth of Israeli martial prowess has been broken, probably forever.
A smarter nation would start trying its damned best at making peace with its neighbors through mutual respect now, and not intimidation like it has.
Call it self defense, because it would be.
P.S. all of what I said above applies to the US, too. The next hundred years or so is going to be a bad time to be an empire. Well, it all applies except for the trophy system. That is a unique form of Israeli stupidity. But the US has it's own unique stupidity in the F35, and the littoral ships it designed.
If Israel hadn't been indirectly creating the conditions for Hamas to form and become popular (at least at the time of the last election) then I would agree. Resistance groups don't form based on a whim or pure evil. There's usually a rationale and it's blazingly obvious in this case
This is more and more feeling like they are trying to push the limits of international tensions to start a regional war at least.
Well, if the fighting stops in Gaza because the most moral army gets shamed into stepping back, poor ol' Bibi is going to have to face that corruption trial. So the logical thing to do is open a new front to hold that off a while longer. Gives them time for Mossad to prime up something elsewhere.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hezbollah, which is thought to have carried out the attack on Israel, has not claimed responsibility.
The two sides have traded regular fire across Israel's northern border since the 7 October attacks by Hamas.
"Fighter jets began an extensive wave of attacks in Lebanese territory," the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesman, Daniel Hagari, wrote on X (formerly Twitter) on Wednesday.
Mr Hagari said the IDF would give more detail on its latest air strikes in the coming hours.
Hezbollah - a Shia Muslim organisation - is one of the most heavily-armed, non-state military forces in the world.
It was established in the early 1980s by the region's most dominant Shia power, Iran, to oppose Israel.
The original article contains 191 words, the summary contains 115 words. Saved 40%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Nuke Israel - they keep starting shit so end their country
Hezbollah: Attacks IDF soldiers in base and kills only a soldier
Israel: Kills entire family in a home including two children to kill one soldier
Most moral army strikes again.
Their attacks also killed and injured several Israeli civilians, Hezbollah is not a lovely freedom fighting group that is careful to only target military bases.
This article says that they hit one israeli soldier. If a soldier on any side dies I don't really care as they've both signed up for it. Just leave the civilians out of it.
This article yes, but I live here and can tell you that the drone infiltrations and anti-tank missile launches by Hezbollah are happening throughout the day, every single day in the north of Israel. That’s why almost all civilians in the north have relocated to the center, driving up rent prices to unbearable levels for everybody. There are though, thankfully, thousands of households that opened up their homes to shelter and support their fellow citizens from the north and around the Gaza border.
Rocket sirens have calmed down a lot near the Gaza border (probably thanks to the IDF neutralizing more than half of Hamas forces by now), they happen only once every few days and they no longer reach the center of Israel these days. At least for now.
Geez if only Hezbollah gave a direct condition that would stop their attacks.
Something about a Schemocide in Schmaza I think...
Fuck no they didn't. Army service is compulsory in Israel, from age 18 and lasts over 2 years (back when I served it was 3 years for men and 2 years for women, but it has changed in the last decade and I don't know the amount now)
I don't know about Lebanon.
Then vote in a government that ends that. Soldiers are acceptable targets, civilians are not.
I did. My vote didn't do shit - the party I voted for didn't pass the threshold. For the first time ever, I might add. Their absence might be the very thing that caused the current abysmal government to form. And I participated in the MASSIVE protests last year after that happened.
You can refuse it like some israeli 18 year olds did.
Conscription is irrelevant as they were active soldiers on a military base. They were not reservists.
"I was just following order" is some shit from 1945 nobody cares.
As for refusing - it's a fucking explosive topic. Some populations do it more than others. Some populations - Haredim - just don't serve as a rule, not because of any good argument but because ThEy HavE To sTuDy ThE BIbLe!!!!! (it's one of the topics that put us on the verge of civil war last year)
For non-insane people though, refusing military service is akin to refusing to pay taxes. It works sometimes, but good fucking luck, and most people don't do it.
"they were not reservists" - exactly. Let me clarify this point.
You are forced by law to serve in the military as an active soldier at age 18. Virtually Israeli soldiers ranked Corporal, Sergeant and Staff Sergeant are in this mandatory serving period. This is active duty, not reserve duty, and the "active soldier" you mentioned is very likely to be this (I don't know how to verify this).
You generally have to follow orders and you don't get to decide what role you'll be doing (although there are ways to affect it, I won't get into it).
There are some who then stay longer, become officers, have a military career, whatever. I'm not discussing those as this bit is similar to voluntary military service in most countries.
The majority of people who finish the mandatory active duty are then released from the army, but depending on their role they remain reservists - they go live the civilian life, and every once in a while they must basically serve for a few days to both pitch in and keep up their own readiness. I'm not familiar with the details of how this works because, lucky me, I was released without reserve duty as my role didn't have much value for reserve.
And of course, at times of war, mass reservist connections ensue. But active duty from age 18 is still active duty, not reserve.
Hope that clarifies it.
I know all of this of course, but then you either take the jail or demand asylum from israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWa2Uc97-ns
The Nazi's also had conscription surely you don't think every German went out of free will. Which brings us once again to
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
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Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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If you knew all this why did you say this?
It is literally conscription.
OK so Ukrainians can't kill Russian conscripts?
Israelis somehow need the most protected status in the world while literally being in the army lol.
I never said anything other than your first statement being wrong - that they chose to be there. That's it. I didn't - and won't - say anything about what's okay or not.
You do get some jail time if you simply refuse to serve though. Unless you have strong psychological or physical reasons that prevent you from serving. Men and women both need to serve, the Israeli (and worldwide Jewish) population is very small relatively.
Israeli warmongers: Hamas and Hezbollah both start with H.
Or maybe they forgot Gaza is in the southwest, not in the north.
Or maybe, just maybe, the Lebanese forgot to condemn Hamas.
If you didn't need a reminder that this was never about the hostages.
Hostages also start with H
And they killed the hostages thinking they were Palestinian civilians.
They thought they were Hamas terrorists, not Palestinian civilians. Because Hamas often times disguise themselves as civilians in order to attack. Including when conducting stabbing or car ramming attacks within Israel against Israeli civilians.
Yeah those 15,000 children the IDF murdered were all completely indiscernable from adults. Couldn't have been avoided.
Didn't you hear, Hamas rides single file to hide their numbers
That’s not what I was talking about and I do not easily dismiss the civilian casualties on either side. I would advise not taking the statistics that Hamas puts out at face value. We can talk about the number of casualties on both sides once the war is over, the dust settles and an accurate count can be made, preferably by an independent reliable source, not Hamas and probably not the IDF. It took Israel months to identify all the victims of October 7 and revised their total death count from about 1400 to 1200. In addition, it is an extremely densely populated region engaged in urban warfare against a terrorist military group (Hamas) that follows no rules whatsoever.
Look everyone, once we've finished ethnic cleansing the Palestinian people and expelled almost all of them from their homeland or killed them, then we can talk about it. Maybe we'll even make a sad movie or a scholarship or something, like the Americans do with the Native Americans. Until then, no one is allowed to criticize us. Because it's antisemitic, and also every single Palestinian is Hamas and Hamas deserves to die. Therefore...
You are fully allowed to talk about it and criticize us, I was just suggesting not trusting stats from a terror organization. Not all Palestinians are Hamas. Hamas does deserve to die.
Not in America you're not. You get called antisemitic. You have to sign loyalty pledges to say you don't believe in BDS. You lose your job or get your university clubs disbanded. Although at least you don't get arrested like saying that stuff in Israel.
And the stats from Israel can be trusted? Your government lies their ass off every chance they get. Then they kill all the UN people who enter or the journalists and use the fog of war as an excuse to genocide everyone since no one can get any information from the ground. We're lucky people have cell phones now so we can see all the atrocities with own eyes, send that some journalists are brave enough to stay despite their family and coworkers dying.
And you guys don't care that not all Palestinians are Hamas since you can still use the excuse that there's a Hamas hiding behind every one of them to kill them all. That doesn't give you the moral high ground. Even the US didn't kill that many civilians in our last few wars in Afghanistan or Iraq, but I guess we weren't trying to do another settler colonialism there, so we had the advantage of not trying to ethnic cleanse the local population off the land.
Yep. Ok. America is the best at war. Good luck to you.
That's my point. It's not a war. It's a slaughter. Israel is trying to make it seem like a war but when you compare the number of casualties, it's very clearly one-sided. The side with a big military and the most advanced weapon technology vs some terrorists and civilians, no wonder.
And approaching it like a war doesn't work, you're just going to get more terrorists (unless the Israeli plan is actually full on genocide). The US figured that out the hard way already after 9/11,too, so I'm not saying they're that much better or anything. You have to let people be free and then negotiate with them. No oppressed people are ever happy to stay that way. You have to fight them forever. And while that was clearly the Israel plan up to now, it seems you don't accept the risks of a 10/7 happening every now and then. It's a natural consequence, like the occasional slave revolt in the US pre-civil war.
That leaves two options. Israel can allow Palestinian sovereignty and equal human rights, without having the removal of Hamas as a precondition. Work together to take them out after removing normal Palestinians as an enemy by granting freedom, human rights, allowing supplies in, stop expanding in the West Bank, allow some right to return andetc. Working together as allies instead of as an occupier (the UK approach with the IRA or the South African approach). Or alternatively, full on genocide (the approach in North America and Australia), which a lot of people don't agree with for what should be an obvious reason. Because bombing Hamas to death doesn't work, you're just making more terrorists, and have been since the main Zionist plan became the revisionist one of kicking people out their homes and taking their land. Either they know that and are happy with an endless war at the cost of innocent lives, or they're planning on genocide or ethnic cleansing, or they're naive.
Is the health ministry Hamas? Are the non MSF doctors Hamas?
Hamas is a reliable source because Hamas is not a terrorist organization.
The militant wing of Hamas uses terrorist tactics. Hamas is the government of the Gaza strip. As is everyone who works for them. But the militant wing is very separate from the governmental wing. This allows the Israels to claim they killed a Hamas member and people thing they've killed a militant, when in reality they just murdered a garbage collector, or census taker.
The garbage collector? Hamas.
The doctors that aren't MSF? Hamas.
The pencil pushing hospital administrator? Hamas.
Finally, since you're a child-murder denying Israel fanatic, who should we believe? Israel's numbers? They're HIGHER! They just claim every child killed is Hamas.
The Gaza Health ministry knows their numbers will always be questioned, so they only release numbers for people proven to be dead.
People buried under rubble from Israels indiscriminate bombing campaign? Not counted.
Wow. I’m out
That argument provides "justification" to kill any civilian.
Your words not mine.
Are you fine with allowing them to set the bar that low though?
No. And look, to be honest I never understood why some people claim that Israel is purposefully targeting civilians. They are not, and the mortality rate of terrorist/civilians is some of the best if not the best in any modern urban war anywhere. Hamas just reports every death as civilian, and men of ages up to 21 as children. Not saying there have been no actual civilians, children and women killed in Gaza, but there is a clear intent to minimize innocent casualties, at least where I’m observing things from.
Also, a few days ago the IDF rescued 2 hostages for the first time, I hope that made international news.
It did but they also killed tens of thousanda of civilians, and more journalists than in any other recent conflict. They are not trying to reduce it at all. You don't displace 1.7 million people or destroy 21 out of 22 hospitals, or bomb escape corridors or refigeee camps, or the last standing city in the region, or kill a bunch of hostages, or prevent the majority of humanitarian aid from being put in, or cut off electricity and gas, or preventing journalists from going in or specifically targeting them, when you're trying to reduce civilian casualties. 2/3 of the deaths are women and children, they're not inflating civilian deaths. It's the opposite. Israel counts every death as Hamas lol. We have a bunch of proof. We'd have more if Israel didn't keep killing journalists.
So this is what being brainwashed looks like.
And that takes them murdering over 5.000 innocent civilians per month. Hope that brown people blood is worth it.
Someone drank a Big Gulp sized cup of Israeli propaganda Kool-Aid.
More like Hamastages.
Don't forget Hospitals, they very clearly start with the letter Hamas too
What? Hamas and Hezbollah are both attacking Israel what is your point?
Didn't Israel start by bombing Lebanon
weeksmonths ago?Edit: months, not weeks: Israel bombed southern Lebanon on October 13.
Do you think they bombed Lebanon out of nowhere? Or was it a response to a certain wave of attacks which displaced the entire northern Israeli population?
Given Israel's history of warmongering in Lebanon, I wouldn't be surprised if it was unprovoked.
It was not unprovoked. Hezbollah joined Hamas’s attack from Oct 7
Citation needed.
Nassrallah said several times that they've begun doing this in support of Hamas.
And the recent attack by Israel is a response to Hizballah's attack on Safed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hezbollah_conflict_(2023%E2%80%93present)
Which in turn was in response to...going back to the illegal occupation of South Lebanon by Israel.
South Lebanon is occupied by Israel??
Look up Shebaa farms
Was Syrian in '67 in the six day war.
And Assad still declares it as Syrian territory.
I'm not quite sure about Lebanon but israel bombed multiple people first, notably Syrian airfields. Multiple times.
Syria even been in this war iirc.
Israel used 7 Oct to attack a whole bunch of people they don't like under the pretense of counter terrorism
Israel is just a shitty warmongering nation.
We in the west focus on Iran but the real blight in the region is Israel.
Really, you’d rather support Iran, a nation where women are beaten and killed for not covering themselves completely? How is Israel the blight in the region, besides being the easy target completely surrounded by countries that hate it for being different aka not Muslim and being a democracy that supports LGBTQ?
Because Israel is an apartheid, settler colonial nation in the middle of an ethnic cleansing campaign and Iran isn't.
It's also a distraction so that they can continue to oppress Palestinians in the West Bank and in Israel.
How is it a distraction? Everyone is still talking about both things and giving their random uninformed opinions.
Fuck off Israel. No one should help these Nazis
I’ll be cheeky and change the meaning of your comment: Yeah, those Hamas Nazis should fuck off of Israel and the world should stop helping them.
Any government that deals with a population it considers undesirable by withholding food, medicine, and potable water is a government committing genocide.
Disagreement just shows that 'Never Again' didn't mean anything to you.
Fuck off, genocide apologist.
Oh dear
Fine, Tell me what genocide looks like. Tell me the methods that are different.
Tell me what conditions justify a government withholding food, medicine and portable water to a population it considers undesirable.
Tell me.
Justify your morally condescending "Oh dear". Make it actually look like a reasonable response to the very simple definition of genocide that is occurring right now, being imposed by Israel on a population that official members of the Israeli government have expressed as undesirable, whom are living on a strip of land that already has Israeli developers planning beach front property for.
Make it look like something different than genocide justifying nationalism.
Genocide looks like a rapidly decreasing population, not a growing one. Supplies are still going into Gaza, yes fewer because Hamas is hoarding all of it and withholding it from its civilians. There are even videos of them opening fire on Palestinians that try to get to any of the supply trucks. There are also videos of Palestinians openly accusing Hamas of withholding all aid. I just wish Egypt would open up its border with Gaza to allow Palestinians refuge there but they never will again because of the Islam extremism they had to deal with when they did that. I haven’t heard that one yet - Israeli developers planning beach front property on Gaza. Nationalism? Israel is comprised of foreigners from all over the world, it’s like a mini US. Not all Israelis are white, not all Israelis are Jews, not all civilians are Israeli. We even took in 15,000 Ukrainian refugees. The “oh dear” was for attacking me directly with the “fuck off” and “genocide apologist”.
Nope, first sentence is such a blatant fucking copout. No one outside of Israel restricts genocide to a "decreasing population". It's the intent to destroy and steal land that matters
Zero acknowledgement of Israel's decade long blockade of Gaza, it's always someone else's fault
There’s no blockade, any Gazan can leave whenever. Most of them come in to Israel for work. Or at least used to. Not sure how things will be after this shit show. The intent to destroy a nation and steal a land is Hamas’s goal, readily visible even on Wikipedia.
Holy shit, you're actually delusional with this comment.
Or, more likely, being way over paid for the shittiest propaganda I've ever seen.
No one believes your lies about this.
No one.
Not even the people sympathetic to Israel will buy this 'there's no blockade, they can leave whenever they want' intestinal gas belching from some orifice that would actually be used for conveying information in a person not paid to lie.
That's because that is what you are, a fucking sick fuck genocidal, child murder justifying monster.
Why would Egypt open up their borders? Why would the Palestinians need refuge? Is some natural disaster happening to starve them to death? Some act of God? Are they just dying for some unknown reason?
You do know that Israel has effective control of the Raffa crossing, right? You know, the place all the blood thirsty fucks are holding a rave to block the aid trucks from going through while the Palestinians literally eat grass. The ones that haven't starved to death, that is, because we've seen the first deaths from starvation hit this week.
Congrats, everyone in the world is going to start treating you like your dearly departed best friends, apartheid South Africa. Remember when everyone else was boycotting them but Israel? When Israel was still selling them weapons to use against their oppressed African population? I wonder how long it will be before we get music videos like this about Israel:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l9dmoT9AfoI
You should have heard about the property developers. Haaretz broke the story.
The Gaza strip needed 2000 trucks a day to survive since Israel has implemented a complete blockade of the Gaza strip for 17 years. An aid truck or two doesn't need to hoarded by Hamas to do anything. What's the math on how many of the 2 million Hazan's that can be fed from a truck or two? How big do you envision these trucks are?
But, I wouldn't expect rational thought from a syphilitic fuck that espouses the same argument that Neo-Nazis use to justify their Holocaust denial. That whole 'population increased' pus oozing from your pustulant lips? Yeah, that's from Holocaust deniers. Do you think the population has increased in Gaza since Israel cut off the food and water and started indiscriminately bombing civilian infrastructure and tent camps in Gaza? Do you actually believe that? If so, I've got some land to sell you, and I totally own it legally, totally. You might want to send some 'settlers' there with some military backup to murder the people currently living there first, though.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://m.piped.video/watch?v=l9dmoT9AfoI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Every time I have a conversation with a pro-Palestinian or especially pro-Hamas person, they always end up losing their cool and attacking me. Just like in most pro-Palestine protests, people get violent and attack random Jews on the street or a Starbucks for some reason (there isn’t even Starbucks in Israel). The pro-Israel marches I’ve seen are just people singing the anthem or something. It’s pretty reflective of the entire situation, Israelis aren’t very interested in war, there’s nothing in the Gaza Strip that we need, no resources, no landmarks of interest, just more desert like the rest of our country. But Arabs and Muslims from all around our tiny strip of land simply hate us on a religious basis and want to see us gone. And we’ve no place to go. We won’t just lie down and die. Sorry.
No one is asking you to lay down and die. Good job trying to invoke victim status to again justify genocide.
Also, good job trying to antisemitically equate Judaism with the genocidal actions of the Israeli government. JVP does NOT want to hold your blood stained hands.
Here, try something out, if you actually want to understand, which I don't think you do, but on the off chance.
Imagine you see a nation trying to commit genocide against its minority population of Jewish people that it has kept mostly locked up in a bantustan for the last 17 years. Imagine a citizen of that country who, presumably, isn't actively participating in the slaughter of Jewish people starts trying to garner sympathy for the slaughter, and justify why the slaughter is okay.
Imagine how you'd want to react to that person.
I'm not Arab, just someone who firmly believes in Never Again. I will treat any worthless genocide justifying fuck the same way, as I'm treating you. I have the same disgust and disdain for the Azerbaijani justifying the ethnic cleansing of the Nagorno-Karbagh region. The same Azeris who got a fuck ton of weapons from Israel, by the by. Funny how Israel sides with and provides weapons to the wrong side in history.
I would hope that you would treat people you legitimately believe are committing genocide the same way, but from your words it is obvious that 'Never Again' meant nothing to you, so I suspect you wouldn't.
Also, good job trying to imply protestors against genocide are antisemitic. I don't give a fuck about your religion, or your ethnicity. I care about your disgusting actions and words.
Well, as long as you are 100% certain you are on the right side of history, you do you man. Just try not to hurt anybody.
I'd say the same, except your country is already hurting people. 35+k people already. Somewhere around 2/3 of which are women and children.
If you go by Israels numbers, it's even more.
Finally, I will say something that should terrify you.
Israel has zero strategic depth. Anyone invades, and it is very quickly over. Again, nothing to do with religion or ethnicity, just geography. Israel is just too small to have strategic depth.
One major shield that Israel had (other than the nukes) was a myth of martial superiority and invincibility. However, for obvious reasons, Israels main strength lies in its armor, and its air force.
But technology always is changing how useful certain weapons are. And technology for the weapons that destroy armor and air superiority has gotten insanely cheap. Raspberry Pi's should rightly be terrifying to any nation that relies on armor and planes. Avionics has always been the difficult part for air defense.
Armor is a little bit different. The design of the weapons that can penetrate armor, and defeat things like reactive armor, or the imbecilic trophy system Israel uses (seriously, I still shake my head at Israel entering dense urban areas with tanks that use an interception system that literally makes screening infantry impossible. Like, what the actual fuck?!) is the expensive part. Once the design is completed for things like two stage rockets, or shaped charges, or explosively formed projectiles, then the actual production is cheap to produce. But designs are easy to transmit, and can be done anywhere by anyone.
The tech has gotten so cheap that even second rate military powers can buy or create weapons that can counter first rate military powers advantages for literally a millionth of the price.
And Israels siege and assault on the Gaza Strip has shown how fucking incompetent and undisciplined Israels infantry is. The majority of the casualties of Gazan civilians are from bombs, artillery, and soon now, starvation. Not the infantry. Their performance has been ... pathetic. Only good for slaughtering the unarmed.
The myth of Israeli martial prowess has been broken, probably forever.
A smarter nation would start trying its damned best at making peace with its neighbors through mutual respect now, and not intimidation like it has.
Call it self defense, because it would be.
P.S. all of what I said above applies to the US, too. The next hundred years or so is going to be a bad time to be an empire. Well, it all applies except for the trophy system. That is a unique form of Israeli stupidity. But the US has it's own unique stupidity in the F35, and the littoral ships it designed.
If Israel hadn't been indirectly creating the conditions for Hamas to form and become popular (at least at the time of the last election) then I would agree. Resistance groups don't form based on a whim or pure evil. There's usually a rationale and it's blazingly obvious in this case
This is more and more feeling like they are trying to push the limits of international tensions to start a regional war at least.
Well, if the fighting stops in Gaza because the most moral army gets shamed into stepping back, poor ol' Bibi is going to have to face that corruption trial. So the logical thing to do is open a new front to hold that off a while longer. Gives them time for Mossad to prime up something elsewhere.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hezbollah, which is thought to have carried out the attack on Israel, has not claimed responsibility.
The two sides have traded regular fire across Israel's northern border since the 7 October attacks by Hamas.
"Fighter jets began an extensive wave of attacks in Lebanese territory," the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesman, Daniel Hagari, wrote on X (formerly Twitter) on Wednesday.
Mr Hagari said the IDF would give more detail on its latest air strikes in the coming hours.
Hezbollah - a Shia Muslim organisation - is one of the most heavily-armed, non-state military forces in the world.
It was established in the early 1980s by the region's most dominant Shia power, Iran, to oppose Israel.
The original article contains 191 words, the summary contains 115 words. Saved 40%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Nuke Israel - they keep starting shit so end their country