Nonbinary genders beyond 'male' and 'female' would have been no surprise to ancient rabbis, who acknowledged tumtums, androgynos and aylonot

sabbah@lemmy.world to World News@lemmy.world – 453 points –
Nonbinary genders beyond 'male' and 'female' would have been no surprise to ancient rabbis, who acknowledged tumtums, androgynos and aylonot
theconversation.com
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People sometimes assume religious traditions’ ideas about gender have always been conservative and unchanging.

In many cases, "conservative" views are actually new! Conservatisms always claim to stand for the values of the past, but they quite often make up a past that didn't actually occur.

“The past” - you know, back when they were much younger and didn’t know how the world worked, so they made up a bunch of assumptions in their head and got mad whenever anyone told them they were wrong because it was obvious they were right since they’re brilliant and they came up with it.

I think it would add some much needed levity to the public conversation if we started referring to people as "Tumtums"

“Honey what’s wrong, you’ve barely touched your Androgyn-Os.”

Hermaphroditus is literally older than Jesus. Of course the ancients knew about them. We still use their words to describe Hermaphrodites.

I always say if it's in nature it's totally fine. And we see this in nature, Godzilla also swapped his gender mid-movie so what is the freaking problem with some people to acknowledge this?

In shinto tradition there are male, female, and deities with no gender as well. They believe they were venerated before the common era.

I always interpreted the “don’t be gay” Bible thing to mean “if you’re not gay, don’t pretend to be” kinda thing. So I’ve always thought what the Bible says is wrong is to not accept your sexuality & try to change it.

I don't think the bible says "don't be gay", I think it says something like "thou shalt not lay with a man as with a woman - that is an abomination".

That just means not to have PIV sex. No biggy - gay men have a tendency to avoid that.

I grew up an Orthodox Jew (I’m not as an adult). The way I learned it was that existing as a gay person, as in, that’s simply who you are, isn’t problematic. The issue is the act of gay sex itself, which is what the verse in the Torah refers to.

That is to say, your understanding is correct.

Disclaimer: I don’t care about it myself. Just explaining it how I was taught in Orthodox schools.

It was the same for us lutherans here in northern europe, it was the act itself that used to be disallowed. They've since allowed practicing gay and lesbian priests though.

Probably says something else too, I’ve been seeing interpretations based on the Hebrew texts, and, unsurprisingly, the versions people know tend to get it wrong & just use the text to reinforce preexisting beliefs.

you say that until you see their Tumblr posts, then you would've lost the ancient rabbis