Yeah no shit. Every major power is trying to influence their rivals' elections, it's the most cost effective way to try and destabilize a country like the U.S. or China. What's more interesting is which side they're interfering for. We know the Republicans are firmly in Moscow's pocket, we know that Trump considers China an enemy, but that doesn't necessarily mean China wants a Democrat either. It could be that the geopolitical gains China made during Trump's administration outweighed all the trade war tariff nonsense, and they want the idiot to drag us further backwards so they can expand their hegemony.
China's funneled almost as much money into Donnie's pockets as Russia.
He's also not keen on maintaining alliances with Japan and South Korea. It's an easy choice for them.
I think this might be the answer. An isolationist US won't mind an attack on Taiwan. Very clever.
This article basically just repeats my speculation in significantly more detail. Sure Trump said the words "I love China," but the man is a pathological liar who started a trade war with China after saying that and plans to start another one if elected. In his own special way, he even recognizes that the Chinese hegemony is slowly replacing the American one with his rambling on the yuan. They're certainly not friends, and the article's conclusion just indicates that the author thinks Beijing wants a useful idiot.
Trump’s anti-China stance is largely performative, and mostly self-defeating; think domestic tariffs etc.
Sure, that may hurt China’s export potential to the US - but it’s a price the CCP is gambling would pay off in the long-term as Trump’s isolationist stance would weaken regional allies spheres of influence, and provide China the ability to step in and fill the vacuum (best case) or further invade territories they deem theirs (Taiwan, islands within the 9 dashes - worst case).
In situations like this, it’s very much better to side with the devil you know.
The CCP just hasn’t offered Trump a large enough quantity of money yet.
I think they're pro-delegitimizing. After that... I'm curious too.
It's cute when the US accuses countries of interfering with elections like they're protecting their world record or something
Oh shit. Such a edgy comment buddy. Now tell me, what elections does China has for the US to be meddling wih?
They f****** over Pakistan's elections just a few months ago, USA is the king of ruining functioning governments anywhere in the world.
CIA straight up admitted they failed to gain an operational foothold in China like they did everywhere else which is why they never have a solid grasp on what China's next move will be. Not to mention the CCP makes arrests like monthly on people they believe or accuse of having connections to the CIA.
I think the point is that the US wanders the world (apart from China), election-meddling and influencing and coup-ing, and then all of a sudden when it happens to us it's some kind of pearl clutching emergency and crime.
To be clear, I don't think we should be doing it to other countries, and I don't think they should be doing it to us. And I think the prospect of another Trump presidency would be so catastrophic for people the world over that it's worth resisting election interference on his behalf, even if you have no particular love for the US and its little adventures on the global stage. But certainly the US State Department getting upset that someone's influencing our democracy, even though we don't want them to, can be met with a certain amount of pure derisive laughter.
Yeah, every nation does. I don't see your point. Is it not bad? Your comment seems to try to direct anger away from China, but also seems to imply it's bad the US does it. It's bad though, right? You aren't just making this comment to misdirect, right?
They're still asking Israel to investigate themselves.
DUH!
I'm sure the same government that uncritically swallows every lie Israel has pushed to further their genocide is exactly who we should trust to vet this intel
@mozz the hypocrisy is astounding. The USA has been interfering in elections for the year dot.
He has to pay a price. Washington should embolden Turkish opposition leaders to be able to take on and defeat Erdogan.
Oh shit that was an inside thought, not a lay out to the press what we’re planning to do type thought.
Not by a coup, not by a coup, but by the electoral process.
Whew. Saved it. That was a close one.
Sounds awfully similar to "devote Imran Khan from PM and arrest his party, but uh don't kill him because that would be a coup"
They only do this on days that end in y. Oh, and we already knew this. We're just here to let you know we've always been at war with Eastasia.
"The Asian autocrats are taking over!" - local autocrats possibly
Just like how he can't see evidence for genocide in Gaza?
He needs to get his visioned checked.
This one says "has."
So he sees things that aren’t there but can’t see things that are there?
Racism is blinding and Blinken is a racist ghoul
I don't doubt it there are influence attempts on the US election by China.
::: spoiler an aside
Still, the selective blindness of the "US" on the Gaza issue has me disappointed in what the Pentagon and Blinken's Department of State overall can and can't see.
:::
After this dude has been caught in like half a dozen lies on behalf of Israel in the last few months, who believes anything he has to say about anything?
Is this where the hard right and tanky left starts up with the same narratives they had about "Russia hoax" in relation to 2016?
That narrative is from a while ago - in this thread they seem to still be stuck on “Biden is bad, genocide, union buster, as a good leftist person I can’t support him and you shouldn’t either,” even in this article that has nothing to do with that. Also there’s someone who’s saying January 6th wasn’t real.
Someone needs to update their configuration a little, I think.
Yeah, I think some of these people are right wingers posing as leftists just being agent provocateurs. Some are probably actually leftists that are spending a lot of time huffing each others' farts and really do believe that they just need to "send a message" to Democrats by letting donnie snake his way into office. This is the same old tired "the people need to be jolted awake" narrative that has been popular among a certain type of personality ever since I can remember. Maybe these people were always among us. I've noticed they are usually people that are extremely rich (and have options to leave the country) and/or are one of the in-group (white xtian cishet) , or hope to be considered one of the "good ones" if they don't tick all the boxes of the in-group...if their little pipe dream of a magical vanguard of enlightened hoi polloi don't bring about their vision of utopia after the actions of a fascist regime has brought about their awakening...
What they don't seem to realize is that if fascism really comes this time, and when donnie's goons are at their door, telling the goons that these purity ponies didn't vote for Biden will mean sweet fuckall. Also, if they don't get out in time, their money/status and so on won't save them, either.
I think the weird arguments are coming from almost all fake accounts. A couple of them behave like people who genuinely believe the things they're saying, but actually the vast majority of them do not. In my opinion.
I'll never claim to be 100% accurate at telling who is and isn't a faker (and I'm not sure the effort is even a worthwhile thing to spend much energy on), but just consider from this thread the difference of people who are saying things like:
It's cute when the US accuses countries of interfering with elections like they're protecting their world record or something
the hypocrisy is astounding. The USA has been interfering in elections for the year dot.
And people who are saying things like:
After this dude has been caught in like half a dozen lies on behalf of Israel in the last few months, who believes anything he has to say about anything?
They are priming the response when Biden loses, so they can blame someone else for their ineptitude and failure to govern.
To me, it sounds like one grouping read the article / headline, had thoughts occur to them based on the article they read, and typed out those thoughts. It sounds like the other grouping has a little bulleted list in front of them "things we'd like to bring up about the Biden administration" and made a halfhearted attempt at "smooth"ly interjecting them into this topic.
I've seen them slip and interject a talking point that's a total incongruity for the target audience / forum (as one of them did down below with January 6th being a peaceful protest), and I've seen them apparently fail to register that the talking point they're bringing up relates in some way to the topic of the article -- just sort of blandly repeat it with that same "we all agree" fellow kids type of energy instead of grasping the obvious relationship between what they're saying and what's in the article or whatever.
All very good points. Just today on their latest podcast, I heard driftglass/bluegal commenting on the SCOTUS we have and how the cult members on there seemingly want a POTUS with no accountability (basically a king), while reflecting on all the leftist dipshittery over Hillary about how there is no real difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.
Some of the leftists clearly believe this ridiculous and absurd claim (Sadly, I personally know a few of them and they really do hold this dumbass belief, even after Nader and after Stein), but then there are certainly a lot of trolls/bots that are taking that up to try to give the impression that this stupid belief is a common one among progressives/leftists.
Have you ever considered not being a net-negative human?
They are priming the response when Biden loses, so they can blame someone else for their ineptitude and failure to govern.
Except if you're willfully being ignorant or arguing in bad faith, it's been known that Russia and China have been meddling in elections.
Not as much as the RNC and DNC interferes in our elections
Lmao, I only see one side actively engaging in coup like behavior. Care to explain your idiotic stance, or will you do us all the favor and not reply?
Jan 6 is a dog and pony show for liberals to keep them rallied up. Absolutely nothing will come of it other than charging the low hanging fruit. It's the liberal version of 'lock her up,' red meat for the rabid dogs.
You're equating apples and oranges, and the fact that there was an attempt to overthrow the government is a nothingburger to you. it just makes it clear not to take you seriously. You're a joke like your opinions and your sad pathetic existence.
The DOJ doesn't see it as an attempt to overthrow the government either. Nearly four years later and they still have no charges against trump.
So then, what was J6 to you if it wasn't a failed attempt at a coup?
A bunch of guys waving flags is hardly a coup. A coup is an attempt to seize power, running the halls of congress is hardly trying to seize power. It was nothing but a group of people that perceived it as a redress of grievances.
Some of us have things to do other than wait in continuing conversations with strangers online.
Bro…
I think you probably wanna restrict the “J6 was a peaceful protest” stuff to some of your other accounts that hold some other ostensible viewpoints (probably fully off Lemmy, instead in some place where people get their news more in short-form-video-with-text-over-it format). It will absolutely not get traction here and it will absolutely cause people to look at your account and its motivations in a WHOLE different light.
If you hadn't noticed I don't give a fuck what others think. I'm speaking to the crowd that sees Russians around every corner. And everyone else is responsible for regressive policy other than the DNC
When presented with facts, you bitched up so stfu about trying to speak to anyone. You're not here for discourse, you're here to stir up bs, and I'm going to hold that over you every time we cross paths.
Wow, I guess attempting to overturn the presidential election and the will of the people doesn't constitute as an attempt to overthrow the government. The fact they made plans and conspired to do all of this doesn't ring any alarms to you? As I said before, you're a joke.
Oh, and bringing gallows to this so-called "addressing of grievances" to hang the vice president is totally normal, too, right?
Still dont give a fuck
And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. I'm glad you just outright outed yourself rather than continuing your poor attempt at a facade. You're a fucking joke.
I have a new one for the bulleted list that usually just goes over reductions in CO2 emissions, growth in wages for working people even outpacing historic inflation that wasn’t Biden’s doing, etc etc the normal stuff that represents a big upward departure from the norm for US presidents.
That’s great and all, but is he still sending weapons that will be used to kill innocents?
Yes, and quite a bit more of them than US presidents usually send. And in my mind, the little fragments of resistance he’s been giving to Netanyahu’s genocidal plan don’t even come close to excusing that.
How much climate damage is US weapons contributing to in the ME? Can't claim wages are up when homelessness is growing and 50% of renters can't afford rent. The elderly are being priced out of their homes and into the streets. Union support is growing because of labor support, not the government. And union support is growing because of stagnant wages.
Just gonna pretend I didn’t send you some links you could read about Biden’s NLRB, and keep repeating the “I’m so left that I can’t support Biden” false narrative piece by piece as if it was true, I guess?
If you believe the bullshit about mitigating climate change and wages from the DNC I'm gonna assume everything else you believe is also bullshit confirmation bias. Leftists would no more support Biden than you would trump.
You invented a whole new type of logical fallacy 😃
“You’re wrong, therefore that thing you said must be wrong, so I don’t have to respond or even read it, because I know it’s wrong because you were the one that said it”
It’s genius. Get the patent; if it takes off you could make a mint.
He's gonna be the next guest speaker at the next International Troll Farm Seminar.
He's gonna be the next guest speaker at the next International Troll Farm Seminar.
mozz@mbin.grits.dev to 
Yeah no shit. Every major power is trying to influence their rivals' elections, it's the most cost effective way to try and destabilize a country like the U.S. or China. What's more interesting is which side they're interfering for. We know the Republicans are firmly in Moscow's pocket, we know that Trump considers China an enemy, but that doesn't necessarily mean China wants a Democrat either. It could be that the geopolitical gains China made during Trump's administration outweighed all the trade war tariff nonsense, and they want the idiot to drag us further backwards so they can expand their hegemony.
China's funneled almost as much money into Donnie's pockets as Russia. He's also not keen on maintaining alliances with Japan and South Korea. It's an easy choice for them.
I think this might be the answer. An isolationist US won't mind an attack on Taiwan. Very clever.
Hardly. https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/02/07/china-trump-biden-us-presidential-election-2024/
This article basically just repeats my speculation in significantly more detail. Sure Trump said the words "I love China," but the man is a pathological liar who started a trade war with China after saying that and plans to start another one if elected. In his own special way, he even recognizes that the Chinese hegemony is slowly replacing the American one with his rambling on the yuan. They're certainly not friends, and the article's conclusion just indicates that the author thinks Beijing wants a useful idiot.
Trump’s anti-China stance is largely performative, and mostly self-defeating; think domestic tariffs etc.
Sure, that may hurt China’s export potential to the US - but it’s a price the CCP is gambling would pay off in the long-term as Trump’s isolationist stance would weaken regional allies spheres of influence, and provide China the ability to step in and fill the vacuum (best case) or further invade territories they deem theirs (Taiwan, islands within the 9 dashes - worst case).
In situations like this, it’s very much better to side with the devil you know.
The CCP just hasn’t offered Trump a large enough quantity of money yet.
I think they're pro-delegitimizing. After that... I'm curious too.
It's cute when the US accuses countries of interfering with elections like they're protecting their world record or something
Oh shit. Such a edgy comment buddy. Now tell me, what elections does China has for the US to be meddling wih?
They f****** over Pakistan's elections just a few months ago, USA is the king of ruining functioning governments anywhere in the world.
CIA straight up admitted they failed to gain an operational foothold in China like they did everywhere else which is why they never have a solid grasp on what China's next move will be. Not to mention the CCP makes arrests like monthly on people they believe or accuse of having connections to the CIA.
I think the point is that the US wanders the world (apart from China), election-meddling and influencing and coup-ing, and then all of a sudden when it happens to us it's some kind of pearl clutching emergency and crime.
To be clear, I don't think we should be doing it to other countries, and I don't think they should be doing it to us. And I think the prospect of another Trump presidency would be so catastrophic for people the world over that it's worth resisting election interference on his behalf, even if you have no particular love for the US and its little adventures on the global stage. But certainly the US State Department getting upset that someone's influencing our democracy, even though we don't want them to, can be met with a certain amount of pure derisive laughter.
Proof read your shit bruv.
Yeah, every nation does. I don't see your point. Is it not bad? Your comment seems to try to direct anger away from China, but also seems to imply it's bad the US does it. It's bad though, right? You aren't just making this comment to misdirect, right?
But hasn’t seen anything wrong with Israel, hmmm
They're still asking Israel to investigate themselves.
DUH!
I'm sure the same government that uncritically swallows every lie Israel has pushed to further their genocide is exactly who we should trust to vet this intel
@mozz the hypocrisy is astounding. The USA has been interfering in elections for the year dot.
He has to pay a price. Washington should embolden Turkish opposition leaders to be able to take on and defeat Erdogan.
Oh shit that was an inside thought, not a lay out to the press what we’re planning to do type thought.
Not by a coup, not by a coup, but by the electoral process.
Whew. Saved it. That was a close one.
Sounds awfully similar to "devote Imran Khan from PM and arrest his party, but uh don't kill him because that would be a coup"
They only do this on days that end in y. Oh, and we already knew this. We're just here to let you know we've always been at war with Eastasia.
"The Asian autocrats are taking over!" - local autocrats possibly
Just like how he can't see evidence for genocide in Gaza?
He needs to get his visioned checked.
This one says "has."
So he sees things that aren’t there but can’t see things that are there? Racism is blinding and Blinken is a racist ghoul
I don't doubt it there are influence attempts on the US election by China.
::: spoiler an aside Still, the selective blindness of the "US" on the Gaza issue has me disappointed in what the Pentagon and Blinken's Department of State overall can and can't see. :::
After this dude has been caught in like half a dozen lies on behalf of Israel in the last few months, who believes anything he has to say about anything?
That said, apparently independent researchers generally back up what he's saying here
Washington DC and Beijing can both fuck off, imo
Is this where the hard right and tanky left starts up with the same narratives they had about "Russia hoax" in relation to 2016?
That narrative is from a while ago - in this thread they seem to still be stuck on “Biden is bad, genocide, union buster, as a good leftist person I can’t support him and you shouldn’t either,” even in this article that has nothing to do with that. Also there’s someone who’s saying January 6th wasn’t real.
Someone needs to update their configuration a little, I think.
Yeah, I think some of these people are right wingers posing as leftists just being agent provocateurs. Some are probably actually leftists that are spending a lot of time huffing each others' farts and really do believe that they just need to "send a message" to Democrats by letting donnie snake his way into office. This is the same old tired "the people need to be jolted awake" narrative that has been popular among a certain type of personality ever since I can remember. Maybe these people were always among us. I've noticed they are usually people that are extremely rich (and have options to leave the country) and/or are one of the in-group (white xtian cishet) , or hope to be considered one of the "good ones" if they don't tick all the boxes of the in-group...if their little pipe dream of a magical vanguard of enlightened hoi polloi don't bring about their vision of utopia after the actions of a fascist regime has brought about their awakening...
What they don't seem to realize is that if fascism really comes this time, and when donnie's goons are at their door, telling the goons that these purity ponies didn't vote for Biden will mean sweet fuckall. Also, if they don't get out in time, their money/status and so on won't save them, either.
I think the weird arguments are coming from almost all fake accounts. A couple of them behave like people who genuinely believe the things they're saying, but actually the vast majority of them do not. In my opinion.
I'll never claim to be 100% accurate at telling who is and isn't a faker (and I'm not sure the effort is even a worthwhile thing to spend much energy on), but just consider from this thread the difference of people who are saying things like:
And people who are saying things like:
To me, it sounds like one grouping read the article / headline, had thoughts occur to them based on the article they read, and typed out those thoughts. It sounds like the other grouping has a little bulleted list in front of them "things we'd like to bring up about the Biden administration" and made a halfhearted attempt at "smooth"ly interjecting them into this topic.
I've seen them slip and interject a talking point that's a total incongruity for the target audience / forum (as one of them did down below with January 6th being a peaceful protest), and I've seen them apparently fail to register that the talking point they're bringing up relates in some way to the topic of the article -- just sort of blandly repeat it with that same "we all agree" fellow kids type of energy instead of grasping the obvious relationship between what they're saying and what's in the article or whatever.
All very good points. Just today on their latest podcast, I heard driftglass/bluegal commenting on the SCOTUS we have and how the cult members on there seemingly want a POTUS with no accountability (basically a king), while reflecting on all the leftist dipshittery over Hillary about how there is no real difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.
Some of the leftists clearly believe this ridiculous and absurd claim (Sadly, I personally know a few of them and they really do hold this dumbass belief, even after Nader and after Stein), but then there are certainly a lot of trolls/bots that are taking that up to try to give the impression that this stupid belief is a common one among progressives/leftists.
Have you ever considered not being a net-negative human?
They are priming the response when Biden loses, so they can blame someone else for their ineptitude and failure to govern.
Except if you're willfully being ignorant or arguing in bad faith, it's been known that Russia and China have been meddling in elections.
Not as much as the RNC and DNC interferes in our elections
Lmao, I only see one side actively engaging in coup like behavior. Care to explain your idiotic stance, or will you do us all the favor and not reply?
Jan 6 is a dog and pony show for liberals to keep them rallied up. Absolutely nothing will come of it other than charging the low hanging fruit. It's the liberal version of 'lock her up,' red meat for the rabid dogs.
You're equating apples and oranges, and the fact that there was an attempt to overthrow the government is a nothingburger to you. it just makes it clear not to take you seriously. You're a joke like your opinions and your sad pathetic existence.
The DOJ doesn't see it as an attempt to overthrow the government either. Nearly four years later and they still have no charges against trump.
So then, what was J6 to you if it wasn't a failed attempt at a coup?
Edit: Crickets
Hey, @anticolonialist@lemmy.world, this question shouldn't be that hard if you're so sure of yourself.
A bunch of guys waving flags is hardly a coup. A coup is an attempt to seize power, running the halls of congress is hardly trying to seize power. It was nothing but a group of people that perceived it as a redress of grievances.
Some of us have things to do other than wait in continuing conversations with strangers online.
Bro…
I think you probably wanna restrict the “J6 was a peaceful protest” stuff to some of your other accounts that hold some other ostensible viewpoints (probably fully off Lemmy, instead in some place where people get their news more in short-form-video-with-text-over-it format). It will absolutely not get traction here and it will absolutely cause people to look at your account and its motivations in a WHOLE different light.
If you hadn't noticed I don't give a fuck what others think. I'm speaking to the crowd that sees Russians around every corner. And everyone else is responsible for regressive policy other than the DNC
When presented with facts, you bitched up so stfu about trying to speak to anyone. You're not here for discourse, you're here to stir up bs, and I'm going to hold that over you every time we cross paths.
Just tryin to help you with your messaging man
Wow, I guess attempting to overturn the presidential election and the will of the people doesn't constitute as an attempt to overthrow the government. The fact they made plans and conspired to do all of this doesn't ring any alarms to you? As I said before, you're a joke.
Oh, and bringing gallows to this so-called "addressing of grievances" to hang the vice president is totally normal, too, right?
Still dont give a fuck
And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. I'm glad you just outright outed yourself rather than continuing your poor attempt at a facade. You're a fucking joke.
🤔
I have a new one for the bulleted list that usually just goes over reductions in CO2 emissions, growth in wages for working people even outpacing historic inflation that wasn’t Biden’s doing, etc etc the normal stuff that represents a big upward departure from the norm for US presidents.
That’s great and all, but is he still sending weapons that will be used to kill innocents?
Yes, and quite a bit more of them than US presidents usually send. And in my mind, the little fragments of resistance he’s been giving to Netanyahu’s genocidal plan don’t even come close to excusing that.
How much climate damage is US weapons contributing to in the ME? Can't claim wages are up when homelessness is growing and 50% of renters can't afford rent. The elderly are being priced out of their homes and into the streets. Union support is growing because of labor support, not the government. And union support is growing because of stagnant wages.
Just gonna pretend I didn’t send you some links you could read about Biden’s NLRB, and keep repeating the “I’m so left that I can’t support Biden” false narrative piece by piece as if it was true, I guess?
If you believe the bullshit about mitigating climate change and wages from the DNC I'm gonna assume everything else you believe is also bullshit confirmation bias. Leftists would no more support Biden than you would trump.
You invented a whole new type of logical fallacy 😃
“You’re wrong, therefore that thing you said must be wrong, so I don’t have to respond or even read it, because I know it’s wrong because you were the one that said it”
It’s genius. Get the patent; if it takes off you could make a mint.
He's gonna be the next guest speaker at the next International Troll Farm Seminar.
Otherwise known as The Daily Wire.
More like failure to stop a genocide, but nice try.