I'd like to normalize the notion that an OS shouldn't include any application software except for a browser you can use to install other things. Let people pick what they want to use and install it themselves.
Yeah, just download LibreOffice or use a free service like Google Docs.
You can even use Microsoft Word for free online.
The whole argument that "a subscription service becomes necessary" is nonsense.
or just WPS if you hate these and don't hate China more than Microsoft
Wasn't there an anti trust or monopoly suite against Microsoft for bundled IE back in the day? Funny how times change, though I agree it's not easy to get a preferred browser without one. Mean it never was overly simple but they were on so many CDs mailed out back then. Think it has to do with some IE and Windows integration too so not just cause they bundled it.
The problem with IE4 is that it was designed in such a way that it was deeply integrated into the operating system, such that it could not be uninstalled.
It's completely reasonable now to ship an operating system without a browser, as long as there's some kind of "app store" or "package manager" through which a user can install whatever browser they want (provided it's available through said store, of course).
Better yet, the OS should just include a desktop environment with simple utilities and a package manager to install the applications you want. It will make users less likely to run into malware while searching for the programs in the web
It shouldn’t include a desktop environment, I want to be able to install my own.
I mean you can. Most people who interact with computers aren't that knowledgeable and just want their OS to have usable defaults which is fine.
We're talking about Windows here, where the desktop environment is too thoroughly intertwined with the rest of the OS to ever remove it. The kind of terminal emulator environment that Linux boots into doesn't even exist in versions of Windows that have been sold after the early 2000s.
I was talking more in the lines of taking away most of the windows bloat. If someone wants to install their own desktop environment they will most likely go down the linux path.
I think a file manager, text editor and command prompt are pretty essential too. And when you've added those, where exactly is the limit where it becomes "application software"?
I don't have an answer for that, but I know Wordpad is definitely not essential and I doubt anyone would use it if it didn't come with Windows
I think it's worth separating the two related but distinct concepts of what is a part of the operating system itself (for example, the actual file manager) and what is pre-installed or bundled with the operating system (games like Minesweeper).
I agree with you that a rich text editor definitely shouldn't be part of the OS. But should it be a bundled part that ships with the desktop environment, the way Windows/MacOS/Android/iOS/ChromeOS all come with photo library software, basic image editors, media players, browser, email client, etc.? These applications aren't strictly necessary to use or maintain the system itself, so maybe they shouldn't have some kind of privileged use of the OS's functionality, but there's no harm in bundling in the installation defaults.
I don't think a rich text editor is an important enough function to necessarily be preinstalled with the OS, but I can see an argument, at least. There's a reason why Windows shipped with one since the beginning, and why MacOS and KDE and Gnome each have a default that very few people actually use regularly.
I'd like to normalize the notion that an OS shouldn't include any application software except for a browser you can use to install other things. Let people pick what they want to use and install it themselves.
Yeah, just download LibreOffice or use a free service like Google Docs.
You can even use Microsoft Word for free online.
The whole argument that "a subscription service becomes necessary" is nonsense.
or just WPS if you hate these and don't hate China more than Microsoft
use onlyoffice desktop editors here.
Wasn't there an anti trust or monopoly suite against Microsoft for bundled IE back in the day? Funny how times change, though I agree it's not easy to get a preferred browser without one. Mean it never was overly simple but they were on so many CDs mailed out back then. Think it has to do with some IE and Windows integration too so not just cause they bundled it.
The problem with IE4 is that it was designed in such a way that it was deeply integrated into the operating system, such that it could not be uninstalled.
It's completely reasonable now to ship an operating system without a browser, as long as there's some kind of "app store" or "package manager" through which a user can install whatever browser they want (provided it's available through said store, of course).
Better yet, the OS should just include a desktop environment with simple utilities and a package manager to install the applications you want. It will make users less likely to run into malware while searching for the programs in the web
It shouldn’t include a desktop environment, I want to be able to install my own.
I mean you can. Most people who interact with computers aren't that knowledgeable and just want their OS to have usable defaults which is fine.
We're talking about Windows here, where the desktop environment is too thoroughly intertwined with the rest of the OS to ever remove it. The kind of terminal emulator environment that Linux boots into doesn't even exist in versions of Windows that have been sold after the early 2000s.
I was talking more in the lines of taking away most of the windows bloat. If someone wants to install their own desktop environment they will most likely go down the linux path.
I think a file manager, text editor and command prompt are pretty essential too. And when you've added those, where exactly is the limit where it becomes "application software"?
I don't have an answer for that, but I know Wordpad is definitely not essential and I doubt anyone would use it if it didn't come with Windows
I think it's worth separating the two related but distinct concepts of what is a part of the operating system itself (for example, the actual file manager) and what is pre-installed or bundled with the operating system (games like Minesweeper).
I agree with you that a rich text editor definitely shouldn't be part of the OS. But should it be a bundled part that ships with the desktop environment, the way Windows/MacOS/Android/iOS/ChromeOS all come with photo library software, basic image editors, media players, browser, email client, etc.? These applications aren't strictly necessary to use or maintain the system itself, so maybe they shouldn't have some kind of privileged use of the OS's functionality, but there's no harm in bundling in the installation defaults.
I don't think a rich text editor is an important enough function to necessarily be preinstalled with the OS, but I can see an argument, at least. There's a reason why Windows shipped with one since the beginning, and why MacOS and KDE and Gnome each have a default that very few people actually use regularly.