The Israeli government is really happy to rope you and all other Jewish people outside of Israel along though. And too many unfortunately play that role happily.
And too many unfortunately play that role happily.
See? This is what I mean. If I just announced that I was Jewish to someone like you, you'd make me justify it by denouncing Israel. I shouldn't have to do that. It should not be assumed that just because I'm a Jew, I support Israel. Frankly, that's a form of racism.
They're saying you should blame Israel for that, not random people trying to find out who's who
Why not blame both? Why should they be trying to find out who's who. If you found out someone was Turkish, would you immediately ask them if they supported Erdogan? If someone was Hungarian, would you try to find out if they supported Orban?
I don't know if you're an American, but how would you like it if, every time you met a non-American, you would have to announce that you don't support Trump because they're trying to "find out who's who?"
how would you like it if, every time you met a non-American, you would have to announce that you don’t support Trump because they’re trying to “find out who’s who?”
This is already the case.
Isn't that how it works anyway?
Person A: "I am a [whatever]"
Person B: "What do you think of [some thing about "whatever" I've recently seen on TV, and is possibly the only thing I know about it]?"
Yeah, except in the case of Jews, it's "prove you're not a Zionist." So many times in my life. So many times. I have to prove I'm not a bad person because of something I can't control and was born as.
This might be very idiosyncratic to how you engage with people or with whom. I've lived in the deep Midwest and in an east coast major city. My name is EXTREMELY jewish. I have literally never had to explain my position on Israel or zionism when introducing myself. If Israel comes up in conversation in one way or another? Sure, people have asked what my opinion is, as a Jewish person, on Israel or such and such events, but that's pretty reasonable and I don't think ever frontloaded with anything.
What can I tell you, other than to avoid the kind of people who take something about you, and turn it into an attack. Also don't bring up the topic yourself unless you want to defend it, and —however hard it is— try to "not attribute to malice, that which is simple ignorance".
There are also some rhetoric tricks you can use to return an attack, but you risk being perceived as a troublemaker.
Yea, that's on the asswipe saying that. We get to meet them everywhere.
The Israeli government doesn't even represent all Israelis, let alone all Jews. Does represent the vast majority unfortunately
I dont mean you personally, but organizations that claim to represent the jewish people in various countries. For instance the American Jewish Committee that claims Jews critisizing Israel would be antisemites and tries to have the UN comittees dissolved that adress the human rights situation in Palestine. Or a bit larger but slightly more moderate the World Jewish Congress, that wants "to enhance solidarity among Jewish communities throughout the world and, recognizing the centrality of the State of Israel to contemporary Jewish identity, to strengthen the bonds of Jewish communities and Jews in the Diaspora with Israel"
These organizations claim to represent Jewish people around the world and that they would be in favor of Israel and support Israel, especially in face of criticism.
Sure, and white supremacists claim to represent all white people. They don't and no one should assume that just because you're white, you're a white supremacist.
Which i never did. You cannot deny the reality, that many Jewish people and organizations want to tie all Jewish people to Israel. It is the predominant view in the larger organizations, that are often recognized as spokespeople for the Jewish community in the respective country, continent or world.
I also find it wrong, that Israel is claiming to be representative of the Jewish people as a whole and having a lot of organized support for it. The voices to the contrary need to organize and make themselves heard.
And because of that, it's justified for people to constantly expect me to prove I have no allegiance to Israel? Bullshit. I should not have to prove I don't support apartheid just because I'm Jewish.
You shouldn't HAVE to, in a perfect world. Unfortunately, the ones who are making it not a reality are the Jewish organizations
So it's the Jews fault that all Jews have to justify to non-Jews that we're not bad people? That's what you're really going with?
Bro everyone has been repeating this over and over:
No! It’s Israel’s fault.
Why are YOU blaming others for what Israel is doing to Jewish identity?
So non-Jews are not at fault at all for being bigoted? It's all the fault of Israeli Jews? There's no bigotry involved at all? That's what you're saying?
What? Why would think that’s what I said?
And if people ask a Jewish person “hey do you support Bibi and the apartheid state of Israel?” how is that bigotry? It’s not assuming anything.
It’s hopeful the person is not a fascist. Not accusatory or anything.
There are A LOT of Jews and Israelis that don’t support the apartheid state of Israel. We all know that.
I’d ask a white South African if they supported the apartheid state there, for fucking sure.
Is it or is it not bigotry to ask a Chinese-American if they support the CCP?
I don’t think it is.
It’s not bigotry to ask a French person if they support Macron. Or a Russian if they support Putin.
Did you miss the other commentors explaining why that's the case? I personally don't do that, but I can understand why others do. As usual, blame the politicians
No, I did not miss all the other commenters blaming Jews for antisemitism.
How is that even anti semitic? They're pointing out an action that major Jewish organisations are undeniably doing. You don't get to play the antisemitic card for honest criticism. That's exactly the sort of BS Israel is pulling that makes everybody annoyed at them.
It's antisemitic because I have to justify myself as a Jew because people like them know this organization exists. As I have said multiple times- I have to justify that I am not a bad person because of my ancestry. Regularly. And you're saying that non-Jews bear no fault there. Fucking bullshit.
Antisemitism is hatred of Jews. People assuming that you're connected with Israel is not antisemitism, you're just diluting the word.
Do you realise that your response is exactly what the groups are hoping for when they're sowing their 'Jews = Israel' propaganda? They're defining your identity to the world, and by getting upset at the world for accepting that propaganda, you've allowed the organisations to drive a wedge between you and non-Jews. As a Chinese, I experience something similar with China. I can understand your feelings of annoyance. But you've got to understand that you're falling for the plans of the politicians when you respond in the way you are now.
The Israeli government is really happy to rope you and all other Jewish people outside of Israel along though. And too many unfortunately play that role happily.
See? This is what I mean. If I just announced that I was Jewish to someone like you, you'd make me justify it by denouncing Israel. I shouldn't have to do that. It should not be assumed that just because I'm a Jew, I support Israel. Frankly, that's a form of racism.
They're saying you should blame Israel for that, not random people trying to find out who's who
Why not blame both? Why should they be trying to find out who's who. If you found out someone was Turkish, would you immediately ask them if they supported Erdogan? If someone was Hungarian, would you try to find out if they supported Orban?
I don't know if you're an American, but how would you like it if, every time you met a non-American, you would have to announce that you don't support Trump because they're trying to "find out who's who?"
This is already the case.
Isn't that how it works anyway?
Person A: "I am a [whatever]"
Person B: "What do you think of [some thing about "whatever" I've recently seen on TV, and is possibly the only thing I know about it]?"
Yeah, except in the case of Jews, it's "prove you're not a Zionist." So many times in my life. So many times. I have to prove I'm not a bad person because of something I can't control and was born as.
This might be very idiosyncratic to how you engage with people or with whom. I've lived in the deep Midwest and in an east coast major city. My name is EXTREMELY jewish. I have literally never had to explain my position on Israel or zionism when introducing myself. If Israel comes up in conversation in one way or another? Sure, people have asked what my opinion is, as a Jewish person, on Israel or such and such events, but that's pretty reasonable and I don't think ever frontloaded with anything.
What can I tell you, other than to avoid the kind of people who take something about you, and turn it into an attack. Also don't bring up the topic yourself unless you want to defend it, and —however hard it is— try to "not attribute to malice, that which is simple ignorance".
There are also some rhetoric tricks you can use to return an attack, but you risk being perceived as a troublemaker.
Yea, that's on the asswipe saying that. We get to meet them everywhere.
The Israeli government doesn't even represent all Israelis, let alone all Jews. Does represent the vast majority unfortunately
I dont mean you personally, but organizations that claim to represent the jewish people in various countries. For instance the American Jewish Committee that claims Jews critisizing Israel would be antisemites and tries to have the UN comittees dissolved that adress the human rights situation in Palestine. Or a bit larger but slightly more moderate the World Jewish Congress, that wants "to enhance solidarity among Jewish communities throughout the world and, recognizing the centrality of the State of Israel to contemporary Jewish identity, to strengthen the bonds of Jewish communities and Jews in the Diaspora with Israel"
These organizations claim to represent Jewish people around the world and that they would be in favor of Israel and support Israel, especially in face of criticism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jewish_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jewish_Congress
Sure, and white supremacists claim to represent all white people. They don't and no one should assume that just because you're white, you're a white supremacist.
Which i never did. You cannot deny the reality, that many Jewish people and organizations want to tie all Jewish people to Israel. It is the predominant view in the larger organizations, that are often recognized as spokespeople for the Jewish community in the respective country, continent or world.
I also find it wrong, that Israel is claiming to be representative of the Jewish people as a whole and having a lot of organized support for it. The voices to the contrary need to organize and make themselves heard.
And because of that, it's justified for people to constantly expect me to prove I have no allegiance to Israel? Bullshit. I should not have to prove I don't support apartheid just because I'm Jewish.
You shouldn't HAVE to, in a perfect world. Unfortunately, the ones who are making it not a reality are the Jewish organizations
So it's the Jews fault that all Jews have to justify to non-Jews that we're not bad people? That's what you're really going with?
Bro everyone has been repeating this over and over:
No! It’s Israel’s fault.
Why are YOU blaming others for what Israel is doing to Jewish identity?
So non-Jews are not at fault at all for being bigoted? It's all the fault of Israeli Jews? There's no bigotry involved at all? That's what you're saying?
What? Why would think that’s what I said?
And if people ask a Jewish person “hey do you support Bibi and the apartheid state of Israel?” how is that bigotry? It’s not assuming anything.
It’s hopeful the person is not a fascist. Not accusatory or anything.
There are A LOT of Jews and Israelis that don’t support the apartheid state of Israel. We all know that.
I’d ask a white South African if they supported the apartheid state there, for fucking sure.
Is it or is it not bigotry to ask a Chinese-American if they support the CCP?
I don’t think it is.
It’s not bigotry to ask a French person if they support Macron. Or a Russian if they support Putin.
Did you just finish Sophistry 101? Cause that's all we're hearing out of you.
I mean you've climbed up on the cross, and it looks like you're even putting the nails in yourself.
Save some wood for Jesus.
Did you miss the other commentors explaining why that's the case? I personally don't do that, but I can understand why others do. As usual, blame the politicians
No, I did not miss all the other commenters blaming Jews for antisemitism.
How is that even anti semitic? They're pointing out an action that major Jewish organisations are undeniably doing. You don't get to play the antisemitic card for honest criticism. That's exactly the sort of BS Israel is pulling that makes everybody annoyed at them.
It's antisemitic because I have to justify myself as a Jew because people like them know this organization exists. As I have said multiple times- I have to justify that I am not a bad person because of my ancestry. Regularly. And you're saying that non-Jews bear no fault there. Fucking bullshit.
Antisemitism is hatred of Jews. People assuming that you're connected with Israel is not antisemitism, you're just diluting the word.
Do you realise that your response is exactly what the groups are hoping for when they're sowing their 'Jews = Israel' propaganda? They're defining your identity to the world, and by getting upset at the world for accepting that propaganda, you've allowed the organisations to drive a wedge between you and non-Jews. As a Chinese, I experience something similar with China. I can understand your feelings of annoyance. But you've got to understand that you're falling for the plans of the politicians when you respond in the way you are now.
Do you think it would be offensive for someone to ask a German if they support Hitler in 1943?
Yawn.