Israel wanted this to happen. The US wasn't the only warning they got.
And the civilians are the ones who suffer.
Israel
No, the Netanyahu regime wanted it to happen. We hold leaders responsible for their own decisions, rather than blaming a nationality.
I agree with you. I do.
But where the hell does that logic go when it's not American political allies in the firing line?
When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists?
When COVID was allegedly sourced from a lab in China, why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets?
Now that we're talking about Israel, everyone's suddenly so protective of exactly who the fingers should be pointed at. Saddam never did have WMDs. The upper echelons of Saudi Arabia were behind 911. There's no proof that COVID came from a lab in China, but those generalisations are often justified, because "look at how many they've killed!".
I agree with you, that it really is Netenyahu's regime that wants this. There are many, many Israeli's all over the world who are condemning Israel's actions in this war, in much the same way that Muslims have spoken out against terrorism for years, and Chinese people called for the hate crimes to cease.
why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists?
They weren't. The people who said they were, were being shitty people.
why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets?
This was actually really rare, and while it was terrible where it happened, it's a mistake to pretend that it was at all common, typical, or accepted.
As an analogy that may be even more contentious: Rape happens. It's bad. When it does, it's usually a man raping a woman. But it's a mistake to say that all men rape all women; and anyone saying that men are all rapists is expressing their own trauma, not the truth.
People are real. Nations and other interest groups are kinda fake.
Because of ignorant hateful people who exist in every part of the world. Remember, there were a lot of Americans against the war. Same fucking racism exists everywhere. How many countries are run by the native population? The problem is the inbred old wealth. The few groups of people across the world convincing people who are not wealthy that the poor are the problem.
Information is a lot easier to come by nowadays. When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, most people were still getting newspapers and watching the evening news on TV. If you wanted to hear viewpoints outside of the MSM you had to really dig for them.
You might have a point if the majority of Israelis didn't keep voting for the fucker.
Dude. My country elected Donald Trump, but that doesn't make me a Cheeto.
This is a valid point, but to be fair, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Donald Trump
And only 23 percent of Israelis voting in the last elections voted for Netanyahu.
That's only half as much as Trump got in the popular vote in 2016.
More importantly, more voters who actually voted voted for the other candidate.
I said "keep voting", the majority see nothing wrong with Bibi's treatment of the Palestinians, although they'll be calling for blood after his failure to keep them safe.
The US kicked the tires on a Trump presidency and decided one term was more than enough.
Actually, we impeached him twice because of how bad he was.
I mean to be fair a majority of Americans never elected Donald Trump but because some people votes literally matter more than others he still won the election
Your country has been a long time ally and supporter of Israel. Almost all voters consistently choose parties which support this. It's one of the justifications Bin Laden gave for 9/11.
I know this is controversial in some parts of the fediverse, but I don't agree with groups like Al Qaeda.
I find it shocking how often you'll read comments echoing that logic, and suggesting that civilians deserve to die for the crimes of their government or leader, simply because they were born on the wrong side of a border.
23.41% of the electorate voted for Likud in the last election.
The right wing bloc led by Netenyahu did not win a majority of votes in the election either.
In part due to a rule change, a few smaller anti-Netenyahu parties didn't gain enough votes to meet the electoral threshold, which is why Netenyahu's bloc gained a majority in the Knesset despite gaining less than 50% of the vote.
Israelis have been voting for increasingly far right politicians for years. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government's brutal treatment of the Palestinians. I'm certainly not attacking every Israeli voter, many don't support their countries' policies but enough do for it to continue.
You said that a majority of Israelis voted for Netenyahu. This is not true.
The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians.
Earlier today I decided to read some opinion pieces in Haareetz. I kept reading comments similar to yours, and was wondering what actual Israelis think. Hareetz is a paper of record and luckily also available in English.
I'll copy paste a few excerpts I found interesting. Hope you do to.
Article makes it sound like they expected just the typical barrage of rockets rather than the invasion that occurred. I’m not convinced this is evidence Israel wanted the attack - with the Iron Dome they likely had sufficient protections against rockets. Neither this nor the reported Egyptian warning appear to have provided details to make one expect what was essentially a ground invasion.
Works out well for the US and their military contractors. I guess it was just another bit of good business in the capitalist haven of America.
we literally warn them
"Clearly the US wanted this"
We have enough sins in our past of intentionally not warning governments, and enough in our present of mealy-mouthed "Oh, well, Israel is just defending itself" without having to add false charges to the pile.
Israel wanted this to happen. The US wasn't the only warning they got.
And the civilians are the ones who suffer.
No, the Netanyahu regime wanted it to happen. We hold leaders responsible for their own decisions, rather than blaming a nationality.
I agree with you. I do.
But where the hell does that logic go when it's not American political allies in the firing line?
When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists?
When COVID was allegedly sourced from a lab in China, why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets?
Now that we're talking about Israel, everyone's suddenly so protective of exactly who the fingers should be pointed at. Saddam never did have WMDs. The upper echelons of Saudi Arabia were behind 911. There's no proof that COVID came from a lab in China, but those generalisations are often justified, because "look at how many they've killed!".
I agree with you, that it really is Netenyahu's regime that wants this. There are many, many Israeli's all over the world who are condemning Israel's actions in this war, in much the same way that Muslims have spoken out against terrorism for years, and Chinese people called for the hate crimes to cease.
They weren't. The people who said they were, were being shitty people.
This was actually really rare, and while it was terrible where it happened, it's a mistake to pretend that it was at all common, typical, or accepted.
As an analogy that may be even more contentious: Rape happens. It's bad. When it does, it's usually a man raping a woman. But it's a mistake to say that all men rape all women; and anyone saying that men are all rapists is expressing their own trauma, not the truth.
People are real. Nations and other interest groups are kinda fake.
Because of ignorant hateful people who exist in every part of the world. Remember, there were a lot of Americans against the war. Same fucking racism exists everywhere. How many countries are run by the native population? The problem is the inbred old wealth. The few groups of people across the world convincing people who are not wealthy that the poor are the problem.
Information is a lot easier to come by nowadays. When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, most people were still getting newspapers and watching the evening news on TV. If you wanted to hear viewpoints outside of the MSM you had to really dig for them.
You might have a point if the majority of Israelis didn't keep voting for the fucker.
Dude. My country elected Donald Trump, but that doesn't make me a Cheeto.
This is a valid point, but to be fair, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Donald Trump
And only 23 percent of Israelis voting in the last elections voted for Netanyahu.
That's only half as much as Trump got in the popular vote in 2016.
More importantly, more voters who actually voted voted for the other candidate.
I said "keep voting", the majority see nothing wrong with Bibi's treatment of the Palestinians, although they'll be calling for blood after his failure to keep them safe.
The US kicked the tires on a Trump presidency and decided one term was more than enough.
Actually, we impeached him twice because of how bad he was.
I mean to be fair a majority of Americans never elected Donald Trump but because some people votes literally matter more than others he still won the election
Your country has been a long time ally and supporter of Israel. Almost all voters consistently choose parties which support this. It's one of the justifications Bin Laden gave for 9/11.
I know this is controversial in some parts of the fediverse, but I don't agree with groups like Al Qaeda.
I find it shocking how often you'll read comments echoing that logic, and suggesting that civilians deserve to die for the crimes of their government or leader, simply because they were born on the wrong side of a border.
23.41% of the electorate voted for Likud in the last election.
The right wing bloc led by Netenyahu did not win a majority of votes in the election either.
In part due to a rule change, a few smaller anti-Netenyahu parties didn't gain enough votes to meet the electoral threshold, which is why Netenyahu's bloc gained a majority in the Knesset despite gaining less than 50% of the vote.
Israelis have been voting for increasingly far right politicians for years. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government's brutal treatment of the Palestinians. I'm certainly not attacking every Israeli voter, many don't support their countries' policies but enough do for it to continue.
You said that a majority of Israelis voted for Netenyahu. This is not true.
Earlier today I decided to read some opinion pieces in Haareetz. I kept reading comments similar to yours, and was wondering what actual Israelis think. Hareetz is a paper of record and luckily also available in English.
I'll copy paste a few excerpts I found interesting. Hope you do to.
This:
Or this:
Article makes it sound like they expected just the typical barrage of rockets rather than the invasion that occurred. I’m not convinced this is evidence Israel wanted the attack - with the Iron Dome they likely had sufficient protections against rockets. Neither this nor the reported Egyptian warning appear to have provided details to make one expect what was essentially a ground invasion.
Works out well for the US and their military contractors. I guess it was just another bit of good business in the capitalist haven of America.
We have enough sins in our past of intentionally not warning governments, and enough in our present of mealy-mouthed "Oh, well, Israel is just defending itself" without having to add false charges to the pile.