The fact that he's free speaks volumes about our failure "justice" system.
Free is one thing. Fuckin duder is campaigning. Like what the actual fuck...
He doesn’t deserve the title of Duder, and the title of Duder doesn’t deserve such a stain.
I would like to issue an apology to all Duders out there. I am sincerely sorry.
Thanks to your swift and sincere apology, your Duder status has been upheld. Duder on.
Not only that...there's a good chance he is going to WIN again. What the fuck is anything?
Yes, and if he was locked up without due process, it would say something else.
They lock people up without due process awaiting trial all the time though right?
Depends, there's certainly a good argument to be made that the bail system is flawed, etc. But trump was arraigned and is out on bail.
Yes you're right, I forgot about the bail part. And the bail system certainly is flawed. Generally aren't you not allowed to leave your state if you're out on bail?
It depends on the state and the bail conditions, which can be modified. Restrictions are based on priors, flight risk, violent tendency, etc.
That's why the gag orders make the news. To your point, folks would be knocked for shit like that.
This line is being crossed on purpose. He can get his propaganda out, and if he actually gets tagged, that's even better propaganda.
Which sucks. But, I imagine the decision-making by the courts is based on avoiding creating a political prisoner out of him. So, we deal with a flawed system, increase fines, and wait for the process to unfold.
"May we live in interesting times" and all that.
Yes I think I have to agree that (I hope) there is a long game going on where they are minimizing the chance of asking for appeal, a slam dunk case. And of course his base would love nothing more than to have him in prison, as theb he becomes a martyr. For what's its worth id rather live in boring times!
If there's one lesson I've learned in my 48 years, it's that boring moments are underrated and moments are overrated. Everyone says they are bored and want some excitement, but excitement doesn't mean good things. More often than not, it is something bad. I'd rather have a boring day than an exciting one.
I still hope that one day politics will be boring again. No "if the Republican gets into office democracy might fail." No "Trump is calling for the arrest of anyone who spoke up against him." Just "the two major party candidates have differing opinions but both would lead this country competently." Make Politics Boring Again!
You claim to only have 48 years on this earth, but you talk about getting back to a time that hasn't existed in at least that long. Are you just reminiscing about rose-tinted stories you heard from your elders? The "good times" they want to return to were anything but for many of us.
Exactly, me too!
They lock people up without due process awaiting trial all the time though right?
No. No they literally do not.
Funny, there's a jail a couple of miles from me full of a few thousand people who would disagree with you.
I'm not surprised that people in jail don't have a strong grasp on the difference between due process and speedy trials.
You don't end up in county by making good choices
Way to punch down. 👍
Oh I'm sorry do you end up in county by making good choices?
How many friends do you have that did time? I've got lots.
I'm here to help and provide information or assistance on a wide range of topics. If something seems weird or if you have a specific question or topic you'd like to discuss, feel free to let me know, and I'll do my best to assist you!
How does that show lack of due process? And what do you define as "all the time?"
DeAndre Davis has been waiting 651 days in a Sacramento County jail. Charged with the murder of a 21-year-old man shot during a robbery in 2019, he hasn’t been tried and he hasn’t been sentenced — and he hasn’t even had a preliminary hearing to decide if there’s enough evidence to take him to trial.
For Davis, it’s been an agonizing ordeal made worse by the pandemic. Held without bail because of the severity of the charges
While this is all awful and should all change, it is hardly being held "without due process"
Things can be bad without being the worst thing possible.
Do you not think that being held in jail for 651 days without even a preliminary hearing is lack of due process?
Seems like a violation of the 14th amendment to me.
I quoted the part where they're getting due process. What they're not getting is a speedy trial. The reasons for this are a system that's overwhelmed.
Specifically they're being held so long because of a failure in the act of complying with due process.
How is being held in jail without a hearing, for almost 2 years due process? Yes there is a huge issue with the amount of back log in the legal system no doubt. If this person is found to be innocent, or in the preliminary trial found that not enough evidence exists to charge this person, they have not been given due process, if they're lucky they will get a bit of money, while their entire life fell apart around them. They would have been detained in violation of the 14th. That is not due process.
How is being held in jail without a hearing, for almost 2 years due process?
You're waiting on a hearing, which is part of your due process.
Your issue here in conflating that concept with a speedy trial. The system is broken and overloaded in some places, and so compliance there is difficult.
I'm all for prison reform as a whole. I'm for ripping the whole incarceration system out by the roots. But words have actual meanings.
Notice of the proposed action and the grounds asserted for it.
-Opportunity to present reasons why the proposed action should not be taken.
-The right to present evidence, including the right to call witnesses.
-The right to know opposing evidence.
-The right to cross-examine adverse witnesses.
-A decision based exclusively on the evidence presented.
-Opportunity to be represented by counsel.
-Requirement that the tribunal prepare a record of the evidence presented.
-Requirement that the tribunal prepare written findings of fact and reasons for its decision.
This is from your source regarding due process.
None of these have happened due to the backlog of cases. As you said, he has not had due process given, because others are delayed in getting their due process. I understand being arrested doesn't mean a trial immediately. But wait times like this are completely criminal.
This is just totally bad faith lol.
Dude its ok to be wrong.
It's not in bad faith, and of course is ok to be wrong.
If he wasn't wealthy and white he'd be behind bars right now awaiting trial.
He's wealthy and orange though.
wealthy*
* not really
Yes, rich people pay bail all the time. We shouldn't we make a political prisoner because of that.
Bail was literally devised as a means to keep wealthy people out of prison while putting undo burden on working class people charged with the same crime. 100,000 dollars isn't realistic for most people to have available, but wealthy criminals can toss that out like cab fare
Yes, there are issues with the bail system. Although, it's not usually 200k.
But that's not the point. The point is that he's going through the process, and we shouldn't just jail political figures without due process. It's crazy to me how many people can't understand that.
The point is he should be getting the same treatment as anyone else who was being charged as he was. Nobody would be seeing the outside of a courtroom or jail cell with the series of charges against him.
This has nothing to do with how unlikeable he is or his political affiliations. This has everything to do with evidence pointing to him committing a series of crimes. Why should he get to run around free when others in his position would not?
Maybe maybe not. Nobody's been in this position before. But I'm sure he would agree with you lot, ignore the process, and jail his opponents.
His attempts to threaten witnesses, lawyers and even the judges involved in his cases alone would get any regular person behind bars, to say nothing of his refusal to stop and other bad faith arguments to fight gag orders
Due process does not mean, "scott free until there's a guilty verdict", you utter numpty. These aren't all civil charges.
I suppose being rude makes you feel good, strong, and right.
I know he's rich, but a 200k bail is not Scott free. People pay bail all the time.
When you're rich, $200,000 and "free" are the same thing.
Yes, sure. There are many issues with the bail system, but people should not be locked up without due process. Charges were brought, bail was set, and he's awaiting trial. Time will tell the rest of it, but that's not getting off Scott free.
Most of us would be held during trial if we threatened the court personnel and violated gag orders the way he has.
But it’s not a criminal trial (yet). We’ll see if that changes in Georgia.
The wheels of justice grind very slowly. The bigger the case, the longer it takes to build.
But yes, I'm getting impatient. There should be consequences for trying to overthrow the government.
Yes, fair. I want an air tight case, and that takes time. It's frustrating. But a flimsy case would be worse. Putting him directly into jail would be worse and set a terrible precedent. People seem eager to fall head first into his narrative.
"Justice delayed is justice denied", especially if it's delayed long enough for the defendant to dismantle the justice system itself.
He should have been arrested on the spot and thrown into gitmo while the courts decide what to do with the body.
The fact that he's free speaks volumes about our failure "justice" system.
Free is one thing. Fuckin duder is campaigning. Like what the actual fuck...
He doesn’t deserve the title of Duder, and the title of Duder doesn’t deserve such a stain.
I would like to issue an apology to all Duders out there. I am sincerely sorry.
Thanks to your swift and sincere apology, your Duder status has been upheld. Duder on.
Not only that...there's a good chance he is going to WIN again. What the fuck is anything?
Yes, and if he was locked up without due process, it would say something else.
They lock people up without due process awaiting trial all the time though right?
Depends, there's certainly a good argument to be made that the bail system is flawed, etc. But trump was arraigned and is out on bail.
Yes you're right, I forgot about the bail part. And the bail system certainly is flawed. Generally aren't you not allowed to leave your state if you're out on bail?
It depends on the state and the bail conditions, which can be modified. Restrictions are based on priors, flight risk, violent tendency, etc.
That's why the gag orders make the news. To your point, folks would be knocked for shit like that.
This line is being crossed on purpose. He can get his propaganda out, and if he actually gets tagged, that's even better propaganda.
Which sucks. But, I imagine the decision-making by the courts is based on avoiding creating a political prisoner out of him. So, we deal with a flawed system, increase fines, and wait for the process to unfold.
"May we live in interesting times" and all that.
Yes I think I have to agree that (I hope) there is a long game going on where they are minimizing the chance of asking for appeal, a slam dunk case. And of course his base would love nothing more than to have him in prison, as theb he becomes a martyr. For what's its worth id rather live in boring times!
If there's one lesson I've learned in my 48 years, it's that boring moments are underrated and moments are overrated. Everyone says they are bored and want some excitement, but excitement doesn't mean good things. More often than not, it is something bad. I'd rather have a boring day than an exciting one.
I still hope that one day politics will be boring again. No "if the Republican gets into office democracy might fail." No "Trump is calling for the arrest of anyone who spoke up against him." Just "the two major party candidates have differing opinions but both would lead this country competently." Make Politics Boring Again!
You claim to only have 48 years on this earth, but you talk about getting back to a time that hasn't existed in at least that long. Are you just reminiscing about rose-tinted stories you heard from your elders? The "good times" they want to return to were anything but for many of us.
Exactly, me too!
No. No they literally do not.
Funny, there's a jail a couple of miles from me full of a few thousand people who would disagree with you.
I'm not surprised that people in jail don't have a strong grasp on the difference between due process and speedy trials.
You don't end up in county by making good choices
Way to punch down. 👍
Oh I'm sorry do you end up in county by making good choices?
How many friends do you have that did time? I've got lots.
I'm here to help and provide information or assistance on a wide range of topics. If something seems weird or if you have a specific question or topic you'd like to discuss, feel free to let me know, and I'll do my best to assist you!
--ChatSCB
Again, unironically exactly how I am IRL lol
Do you have a different source? https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/03/waiting-for-justice/
How does that show lack of due process? And what do you define as "all the time?"
While this is all awful and should all change, it is hardly being held "without due process"
Things can be bad without being the worst thing possible.
Do you not think that being held in jail for 651 days without even a preliminary hearing is lack of due process?
Seems like a violation of the 14th amendment to me.
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt14-S1-3/ALDE_00013743/#ALDF_00028619
I quoted the part where they're getting due process. What they're not getting is a speedy trial. The reasons for this are a system that's overwhelmed.
Specifically they're being held so long because of a failure in the act of complying with due process.
How is being held in jail without a hearing, for almost 2 years due process? Yes there is a huge issue with the amount of back log in the legal system no doubt. If this person is found to be innocent, or in the preliminary trial found that not enough evidence exists to charge this person, they have not been given due process, if they're lucky they will get a bit of money, while their entire life fell apart around them. They would have been detained in violation of the 14th. That is not due process.
You're waiting on a hearing, which is part of your due process.
Your issue here in conflating that concept with a speedy trial. The system is broken and overloaded in some places, and so compliance there is difficult.
I'm all for prison reform as a whole. I'm for ripping the whole incarceration system out by the roots. But words have actual meanings.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/procedural_due_process#:~:text=Overview,by%20a%20neutral%20decision%2Dmaker.
You're absolutely correct words to have meaning.
-An unbiased tribunal.
This is from your source regarding due process.
None of these have happened due to the backlog of cases. As you said, he has not had due process given, because others are delayed in getting their due process. I understand being arrested doesn't mean a trial immediately. But wait times like this are completely criminal.
This is just totally bad faith lol.
Dude its ok to be wrong.
It's not in bad faith, and of course is ok to be wrong.
If he wasn't wealthy and white he'd be behind bars right now awaiting trial.
He's wealthy and orange though.
wealthy*
* not really
Yes, rich people pay bail all the time. We shouldn't we make a political prisoner because of that.
Bail was literally devised as a means to keep wealthy people out of prison while putting undo burden on working class people charged with the same crime. 100,000 dollars isn't realistic for most people to have available, but wealthy criminals can toss that out like cab fare
Yes, there are issues with the bail system. Although, it's not usually 200k.
But that's not the point. The point is that he's going through the process, and we shouldn't just jail political figures without due process. It's crazy to me how many people can't understand that.
The point is he should be getting the same treatment as anyone else who was being charged as he was. Nobody would be seeing the outside of a courtroom or jail cell with the series of charges against him.
This has nothing to do with how unlikeable he is or his political affiliations. This has everything to do with evidence pointing to him committing a series of crimes. Why should he get to run around free when others in his position would not?
Maybe maybe not. Nobody's been in this position before. But I'm sure he would agree with you lot, ignore the process, and jail his opponents.
His attempts to threaten witnesses, lawyers and even the judges involved in his cases alone would get any regular person behind bars, to say nothing of his refusal to stop and other bad faith arguments to fight gag orders
Due process does not mean, "scott free until there's a guilty verdict", you utter numpty. These aren't all civil charges.
I suppose being rude makes you feel good, strong, and right.
I know he's rich, but a 200k bail is not Scott free. People pay bail all the time.
When you're rich, $200,000 and "free" are the same thing.
Yes, sure. There are many issues with the bail system, but people should not be locked up without due process. Charges were brought, bail was set, and he's awaiting trial. Time will tell the rest of it, but that's not getting off Scott free.
Most of us would be held during trial if we threatened the court personnel and violated gag orders the way he has.
But it’s not a criminal trial (yet). We’ll see if that changes in Georgia.
The wheels of justice grind very slowly. The bigger the case, the longer it takes to build.
But yes, I'm getting impatient. There should be consequences for trying to overthrow the government.
Yes, fair. I want an air tight case, and that takes time. It's frustrating. But a flimsy case would be worse. Putting him directly into jail would be worse and set a terrible precedent. People seem eager to fall head first into his narrative.
"Justice delayed is justice denied", especially if it's delayed long enough for the defendant to dismantle the justice system itself.
He should have been arrested on the spot and thrown into gitmo while the courts decide what to do with the body.
I just want him to get the same treatment I would get if I committed a serious crime in broad daylight.
Sure, we'll all be waiting for a verdict with baited breath.
Also about the failure of our national security apparatus.