Forced prison labour is the foundation of a number of economies, including the US'. It's explicitly not prohibited in the Constitution.
China can't use prison labour to undercut global markets because they have a smaller prison labour pool than their key economic competitor (the US).
I don't believe that. Chinas prison stats are around 1.69mil (which is oddly on par with the US - per capita not taken into consideration). However, per the Global Slavery Index, there's an estimated 5.8 million people enslaved there. And we know that there were over 1 million Uyghur Muslims, and we really don't even know the extent to which that is happening either.
I'd be willing to bet that there's a lot more slave/prison labor going over there than even we realize.
In the US, we don't call them slaves. We call them prisoners. That's how we stay off the index.
Never mind that we intentionally arrest specific racial groups more than others, and that the laws are such that you can be arrested for almost anything, including things like "looking suspicious while driving and then resisting arrest."
Slavery never left America. We just decided to start including some poor white people too.
We just decided
At least half of them were forced into it by the government and are keen on reminding everyone else about it with their douchey flags.
Yeah, I wouldn't put much stock into statistics coming from the Chinese government.
Do they count extreme work hours as effective slavery? If so, then I wouldn't be surprised at all if China has more "slavery". If not, then you'll have to quantify your numbers as well. If they're including things that are only effectively slavery, then both countries have millions upon millions more than either of those stats, so where the line is drawn makes all the difference.
Company towns are effective slavery.
The GSI is not a reliable index. The Walk Free initiative that publishes the GSI doesn’t use a consistent methodology for every country and will also uncritically accepts reports of human trafficking from unreliable sources.
For example, their report on China includes unverified claims of harvesting organs from members of the Falun Gong, a right wing cult operating out of the US. The Falun Gong also operates the Epoch Times which is a far right conspiratorial newspaper that has promoted Qanon, antivax propaganda, and claims of election fraud in the 2020 US presidential election. You can not trust their testimony on faith alone and yet that’s what Walk Free did.
This post has so many controversial aspects:
There are no real numbers from china, how many people are actually imprisoned or what even means imprisoned. For example the Uyghurs are not Prisoners in Prison but "Citizens in reeducation camps"- what is a lie. Pictures show they are indeed imprisoned . China is fudging these numbers like the economy numbers at a grand scale.
China is able to force people to work in certain regions or cities. They have a complex system on how to channel work by prohibiting living-, healthcare- and pensions-systems to citizens based on their location and citizens need to apply for changes to these systems to be able to work in other regions.
China - as an authoritarian regime - can force every prisoner to work if they deem it useful. The US has different rules for penal labor, but not make prisoners work like china. The US has a much different landscape.
China undercut every good, in every sector (except some high tech sectors) based on their vast (forced) workforce but also in the strategic sense. They act like Uber (or is Uber acting like China?) in the sense, that their strategy in the last 4 decades was to undercut e.g. Steel-Production for their own advances, but also to cripple the industries in the US and the West in general to come out as the sole supplier for these products and services to then control the prices (like Uber). The US Steelworker Industry is practically gone by now. They did the same with raw-materials and lately with Solar, where they undercut the European (German) markets, to cripple it and control the production/income/spread.
They have a complex system on how to channel work by prohibiting living-, healthcare- and pensions-systems to citizens based on their location and citizens need to apply for changes to these systems to be able to work in other regions.
This is called indentured servitude, it was common in feudal societies.
BTW, you should add a new line between points to have proper formatting
Tell it to the 13th Amendment:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction
Coincidentally, those convicted parties are predominantly Black.
Person A: it's bad that China is bad.
Person B: OMFG but USA bad too!
Like, do you actually think this is a real defense for China's behavior? Or are you just blustering because you understand there is no defense and that hurts your world view?
The OP claimed China has a competitive edge from prison labour. I disproved that statement.
Not really. Because China'a numbers are demonstrably false. It's the good old "you can't prove it's happening if we just don't count them" logic.
You can disprove China's numbers... How, exactly?
Satellites help.
Satellites to... See people?
Yes, and prison camps and other structures, changes in landscape over time, and so on. I'm sure if you really think hard you'll come up with all sorts of ways to get information out of a country when you don't trust the numbers the government there is giving, especially if you think in terms of having lots of resources. Check out how people in North Korea get access to the unfiltered internet and western media, for example; similar techniques are used to exfiltrate data to piece together the whole picture.
What granularity do you think satellites shoot at?
Instead, China uses their prison population to bolster their organ transplant market.
Edit: I wonder if the people who downvoted realise that China admitted they had been harvesting organs from prisoners but claimed it was voluntary and that they were stopping. Meanwhile, the exponential growth of their transplant industry continued beyond 2014.
Forced prison labour is the foundation of a number of economies, including the US'. It's explicitly not prohibited in the Constitution.
China can't use prison labour to undercut global markets because they have a smaller prison labour pool than their key economic competitor (the US).
I don't believe that. Chinas prison stats are around 1.69mil (which is oddly on par with the US - per capita not taken into consideration). However, per the Global Slavery Index, there's an estimated 5.8 million people enslaved there. And we know that there were over 1 million Uyghur Muslims, and we really don't even know the extent to which that is happening either.
I'd be willing to bet that there's a lot more slave/prison labor going over there than even we realize.
In the US, we don't call them slaves. We call them prisoners. That's how we stay off the index.
Never mind that we intentionally arrest specific racial groups more than others, and that the laws are such that you can be arrested for almost anything, including things like "looking suspicious while driving and then resisting arrest."
Slavery never left America. We just decided to start including some poor white people too.
At least half of them were forced into it by the government and are keen on reminding everyone else about it with their douchey flags.
Yeah, I wouldn't put much stock into statistics coming from the Chinese government.
Do they count extreme work hours as effective slavery? If so, then I wouldn't be surprised at all if China has more "slavery". If not, then you'll have to quantify your numbers as well. If they're including things that are only effectively slavery, then both countries have millions upon millions more than either of those stats, so where the line is drawn makes all the difference.
Company towns are effective slavery.
The GSI is not a reliable index. The Walk Free initiative that publishes the GSI doesn’t use a consistent methodology for every country and will also uncritically accepts reports of human trafficking from unreliable sources.
For example, their report on China includes unverified claims of harvesting organs from members of the Falun Gong, a right wing cult operating out of the US. The Falun Gong also operates the Epoch Times which is a far right conspiratorial newspaper that has promoted Qanon, antivax propaganda, and claims of election fraud in the 2020 US presidential election. You can not trust their testimony on faith alone and yet that’s what Walk Free did.
This post has so many controversial aspects:
This is called indentured servitude, it was common in feudal societies.
BTW, you should add a new line between points to have proper formatting
Tell it to the 13th Amendment:
Coincidentally, those convicted parties are predominantly Black.
Person A: it's bad that China is bad.
Person B: OMFG but USA bad too!
Like, do you actually think this is a real defense for China's behavior? Or are you just blustering because you understand there is no defense and that hurts your world view?
The OP claimed China has a competitive edge from prison labour. I disproved that statement.
Not really. Because China'a numbers are demonstrably false. It's the good old "you can't prove it's happening if we just don't count them" logic.
You can disprove China's numbers... How, exactly?
Satellites help.
Satellites to... See people?
Yes, and prison camps and other structures, changes in landscape over time, and so on. I'm sure if you really think hard you'll come up with all sorts of ways to get information out of a country when you don't trust the numbers the government there is giving, especially if you think in terms of having lots of resources. Check out how people in North Korea get access to the unfiltered internet and western media, for example; similar techniques are used to exfiltrate data to piece together the whole picture.
What granularity do you think satellites shoot at?
https://journals.law.harvard.edu/hrj/2023/11/privacy-and-veracity-implications-of-the-use-of-satellite-imagery-from-private-companies-as-evidence-in-human-rights-investigations/
An opinion piece with no quantitative analysis? Nice.
Instead, China uses their prison population to bolster their organ transplant market.
Edit: I wonder if the people who downvoted realise that China admitted they had been harvesting organs from prisoners but claimed it was voluntary and that they were stopping. Meanwhile, the exponential growth of their transplant industry continued beyond 2014.
Zydrate comes in a little glass vial
I'm hearing this happens with the bodies of Palestinians as well.
Cool, I was just thinking the answer to this problem was either 'both sides' or 'what about'.