Yes, let's not rush into to taking any sort of precaution to protect our kids. Much better to have this wild West situation we have going on now just in case me, Clyde, and Peepaw need to go toe-to-toe with the US Government in some sort of hypothetical hyperbolic David vs Goliath scenario. Totes makes fucking sense, dunnit.
As a gun owner, I recognize how absolutely lax the gun laws are. Let them make it harder to buy a gun. It won't hurt you. At least then I know fucking "Off-His-Meds" Jeb down the street from me won't be able to buy an AR-15 and mow down my family because my weeds keep "blowing on his lawn" or whatever inane shit he constantly yells as me about.
Maybe you could stop being susceptible to all of the gun lobbyists arguments and learn to think for yourself at some point. I don't know. That's just my 2¢. Maybe once you have a kid or grandkid going through school your tune will change.
Exactly. Let's not even raise a finger to do the minimum amount to stop guns getting into the hands of impulsive kids or men to begin with...lets just give a gun to every motherfuckin' buttwipe out there and let everyone shoot at whoever they want. Eventually one person will be left, with nothing but a ruined earth to comfort themselves. And maybe that's truly what should happen, poetically justice speaking.
The only times I see pistols is when I see policemen.
The only times I see machine guns is in the hands of policemen at the airport, or when extremist groups are demonstrating and need protection by the police.
Why would I even need a gun, when hardly any criminal owns one?
The concept of gun ownership is flawed in itself.
There's nothing inherently wrong with gun ownership. However, there is a shit ton wrong on how we handle distribution and tracking of them. We have more prerequisites for operating a vehicle than we do a firearm, and in a country where we have a SIGNIFICANT number of mass shootings, we are doing SIGNIFICANTLY little to fix the issue.
Gun ownership is totally fine. I bought a handgun and a shotgun on the same day (after someone tried to break in and attack my wife - they didn't realize that I had just come home from a trip) and was blown away that I could just walk right out the door with them within a few minutes. A rifle for hunting is also not an issue.
Fun fact: handguns are used in mass shootings more often than AR15s. In fact, all rifles, of which AR15s is merely the most popular type, are responsible for ~500/60,000 gun deaths/yr in the US. Probably because, as you may guess, handguns are a lot more concealable than rifles.
Also, be fair about the buying process, you still went through the National Instant Criminal background check system. Sure instant checks don't take long anymore due to Al Gore inventing the internet in the 90s, but they do still happen and adding arbitrary length does nothing to stop crimes. In fact even if they did, they don't stop nor are they designed to stop the types of planned attack we're talking about (mass casualty events), they are to stop "crimes of passion" (guy killing his wife), and there's some contention that they effectively do that as it isn't like the couple necessarily receives the proper counseling, so he just picks it up and does it next time he's in a wife killin' mood, or if he can't wait goes all Chris Benoit or that "Stairs" jerkoff.
Sounds like a good reason to highly regulate handguns to me.
They are regulated.
There is a difference between regulated and highly regulated?
Crimes like straw purchasing or lying on a NICs form are punishable by 10yr in prison, federal prison in some cases. I'd say that's pretty "high."
You know what would be a lot higher? Not letting mentally ill people or domestic abusers, or people who have shown to use them in an unsafe manner around children have access to them. But apparently that is way too far in America.
People who have been convicted of domestic violence are already federally barred from firearms ownership, same for people who have been involuntarily committed, and child endangerment is already also a crime that falls outside the scope of simply firearms.
People who have been convicted of domestic violence are already federally barred from firearms ownership
same for people who have been involuntarily committed
That's not what I said, I said a history of mental illness.
and child endangerment is already also a crime that falls outside the scope of simply firearms.
But it doesn't include handgun ownership, which you know full well. And that's what we're talking about here.
But since you are blatantly misrepresenting what I said and being incredibly dishonest, I don't think this conversation needs to continue.
That's not what I said, I said a history of mental illness.
Ah, so you want to nebulously define mental illness to include depressed people, people with ADHD, BPD, Bi-polar, and trans people as "undesireables." Well this ableist position thankfully isn't the law and it requires proof that a person is actually dangerous before stripping their rights. Furthermore all it does is make people less likely to seek the help they actually need for fear of being barred from rights for having a mental illness that wouldn't have made them be violent anyway (stop stigmatizing the mentally ill btw, do better.)
But it doesn't include handgun ownership, which you know full well.
Ah but it does. If someone is actually endangering their children with a handgun it absolutely applies, but no, "owning a handgun" isn't in and of itself child endangerment and your suggestion that it should be is quite laughable.
You seem to have a habit of cutting and running every time I prove that you have no idea what you're talking about. By all means take your ball and go home lol.
I cannot relate to that. I am 37 years old and I think I have never witnessed violent crime, except in television or on playgrounds (children are assholes to each other!)
Yeah, it was terrifying. Like the guy knew she was there, we had just put the dog outside, so they were obviously watching the house. They tried to kick in the front door, and I ran to the front door have naked and half asleep. The terror slammed full force into me when I realized someone was at our door (could see through glass), and I had no weapon to deal with them. They ran as soon as they saw me. I had just gotten home late the night before, so they obviously knew that I wasn't home, and the knew that my wife was.
It still wigs me out to this day.
How long does the police need to arrive at your home? For me in case of an active break in it would probably be around 120 to 180 seconds. So this usually only happens when nobody is home, it’s too dangerous otherwise.
Someone stole my e-bike from the back yard. And I have heard of break ins in cellars. But that kind of crime that you describe is very very rare.
Does that mean that gun ownership is a side effect of a security system that has flaws in itself?
National average response time to emergencies is 11min, 23 to non emergencies. In the cities it'll be "less" (maybe, and not much), but in the country it could be hours.
That’s long. 😱 For non emergencies I have waited long times. Like 40 minutes or even hours. But when I called the fire department once it came like 30 seconds after I had hung up. And it was just a smoking trash can, nothing really dangerous.
Fire dept is a bit quicker I think but they only protect you from fires of course, also, analogous to firearms, fire extinguishers are good to have on hand if a fire breaks out. Also, fortunately the fire often doesn't actively prevent you calling the fire dept, though often due to the nature of being victimized violently you won't be able to even call the police until after the event unless you're lucky, you often have to focus on fighting or running in the moment.
People are not always logical. Even if the cops could get there within 2 minutes, that's still 2 minutes that you have to deal with someone that is intent on doing harm to you. I wouldn't want to risk that.
The police also have no legal obligation to protect you. Meaning if there is a situation that they consider "dangerous" they might not even enter the house to protect you. Like....I'm not hedging all of my bets on a cop to protect me. Because there's still a chance that I lose.
I understand your point that there's not really any point to having weapons when we have a "protector", but we've already seen that those "protectors" have no obligation to actually protect you if they feel endangered. Guns are tools. A rifle is a tool to provide food for yourself. A handgun/shotgun is a tool that you use to protect yourself. We just shouldn't hand those tools out to literally everyone that wants one.
Here, they are less afraid because almost no household is armed. It is a dangerous situation to enter a home, but they always come in pairs and might do so with guns drawn.
But we are talking about very extreme cases. German police shot 14 people in 2017, 11 in 2018, and 15 in 2019. So about the same amount of people that die from lightning strikes. The vast majority of policemen do not discharge their gun in their whole line of duty.
If you compare likelihood of violent crime the bigger danger comes from people inside your house, rather than burglary. Therefore, weapons in houses would make life more dangerous here, since you are less likely to escape your step mother armed with a gun, than your step mother armed with a kitchen knife.
PS: I don’t know your step mother. Maybe she is a world class samurai swordswoman. I apologise if my analogy insulted her.
Yeah but my dude, before any of this happens, you're way morelikely to just lose your shit yourself and murder yourself or one of your family or more.
Live by the sword die by the sword I guess.
No we do not, you can purchase a car at any age, transport it across any state lines, drive it without insurance or a license at any age on private property, and you don't have to register it once to do any of this.
Yea as a gun owner lol what bullshit are you shoveling?
And that shit doesn't happen, stop making up bullshit scenarios....not even going to speak on the fact that none of what you said or propose will stop someone from obtaining a firearm. It's not illegal to sell privately and as you probably know prohibition didn't work.
Every other country has a FRACTION OF A FRACTION of the amount of shootings that we do, and you have the gall to sit there and go "none of what you said or propose will stop someone", when politicians and gun control groups have literally proposed NUMEROUS extremely common sense fixes to help curb the violence. It's fucking loons like you that rally against it ad nauseum because "DeMs CuMmInG fEr MuH gUnS!1!". You're nothing but a gun lobbyists mouthpiece who would rather let kids get killed so you can keep an overpowered AR than try LITERALLY anything to help alleviate the situation.
No one is coming for my shotgun, or my handgun, or my hunting rifle. Literally no one will ever pass a law that will ban those. Red flag laws WORK. Mandatory withholding periods WORK. Banning AR weapons and bump stocks would be a step in the right direction. Pushing these laws on a federal level would help. Would it stop everything? No, but it would provide a LOT more opportunities to catch someone before it happens.
Fuck, do something to help our kids, don't be the barrier that makes it more difficult.
Lol and you're a mouth piece for emotional ignorance...you even saying no one is touching your handguns when 95% of all gun deaths are via handguns...rifles of all kinds are around 3% of all gun deaths, and then the AR style rifles make up around 50 deaths a year...50...more kids are killed by being punched and kicked to death by an order of magnitude 10xs the amount done via AR pattern rifles.
Wanna actually do something to help, stop focusing on guns, you're not going to stop the violence that way. Focus on:
We can start with:
Single payer healthcare
Ending the War on Drugs
Ending Qualified immunity
Properly funding our schools and not just rich white suburb schools.
Build more schools and hire more teachers for proper pay so the class room sizes aren't 30-40 kids for one teacher.
UBI (at least start talking about it) once AI takes over most of the blue collar jobs.
End for profit prisons
Enforce the laws already on the books
Make sure there are safety nets for poor families so the kids don't turn to violence/gangs to survive.
Increase the minimum wage
Recreate our mental healthcare so kids don't turn to the internet for support. And to help veterans not end up as a suicide number.
Actively make a law to solidify Pro-choice rights. More unwanted children do not help our situation.
Banning Insider Trading for Congress
Term limits
Ranked Choice Voting so we can move away from a 2 party system
So what do you think is going to decrease school shootings? What are you proposing or support that will improve the situation?
We can start with:
Single payer healthcare
Ending the War on Drugs
Ending Qualified immunity
Properly funding our schools and not just rich white suburb schools.
Build more schools and hire more teachers for proper pay so the class room sizes aren't 30-40 kids for one teacher.
UBI (at least start talking about it) once AI takes over most of the blue collar jobs.
End for profit prisons
Enforce the laws already on the books
Make sure there are safety nets for poor families so the kids don't turn to violence/gangs to survive.
Increase the minimum wage
Recreate our mental healthcare so kids don't turn to the internet for support. And to help veterans not end up as a suicide number.
Actively make a law to solidify Pro-choice rights. More unwanted children do not help our situation.
Banning Insider Trading for Congress
Term limits
Ranked Choice Voting so we can move away from a 2 party system
So basically... Fix every other nearly impossible to fix problem first before even deciding to do anything about the actual guns, if anything at all?
And to be clear, by impossible to fix, I mean politically, not that these problems are actually unsolvable.
So you're plan is to try and tackle something that's written into the constitution.... that's your goal? Say it's nearly impossible to do everything else on that list which isn't written into our constitution...but guns... they're easier to fix...fucking hell you all are really naive.
So you’re plan is to try and tackle something that’s written into the constitution… that’s your goal?
You mean like slavery?
Are you equating slavery to owning firearms? You white privileged ivory tower types are hilarious.
Nope. I'm equating slavery to tackling something in the constitution and changing it. You know, the thing you just implied was not something that could be done. I'm sure you know that and are obfuscating.
Yea everyone basically agreed slavery was bad...we fought a fucking civil war over it...the majority of the USA is pro-gun. You will never radify the constitution to remove or nullify the 2nd. It's not going to ever happen.
If everyone agreed, why did we fight a civil war over it?
Are you suggesting we fight another civil war so you can repeal the 2nd amendment? You do realize who wins that one right?
You didn't answer my question. If everyone agreed, why was there a war over it?
I didn't specify a plan one way or another. I just think it's crazy that the talking points you presented seem pretty clearly designed to just kick this issue down the road, cause at least that way you still get to have your guns.
And believe me, solving all those things you mentioned would be great. But why not also try and do something about the major gun issues at the same time too?
Those "talking points" would solve our firearm violence. We don't have a gun problem, we have a societal one. Random mass shootings are a new phenomenon...gang violence and drug violence are not. Solving these things with the list I posted, would curb our violence epidemic 100xs more than just another emotional gun law from people who don't understand guns.
We do have a societal problem. We also very much have a gun problem.
And proposing all these other things you know won't get accomplished is a way to shift all the responsibility away from the gun issue itself.
And you aren't being emotional about even the thought of some more gun control or anything to even tackle that issue head on? Come on.
It might be because I'm not delusional about why we have the violence in the first place. I'm proposing things that actually would make a difference, another AWB or mag cap/mag ban/etc is emotional policies that will not put a single dent in our gun violence... I'm not the one kicking the can down the road, you are.
I personally didn't propose any of those policies. I genuinely don't know what would work best. I just think you are being really transparent in treating the guns themselves as having nothing to do with the issue of gun violence.
I think everything you were saying would be great to accomplish. It's just really disingenuous to propose them knowing there is a slim chance any of them will happen while completely ignoring the actual guns, just because you want to keep your guns.
The statistics and other countries show that violence is mainly driven by poverty and ignorance. Work on those two main things, and you slow the violence.
And most other countries also have much stricter gun control laws too.
We could work on those things and the gun problem too.
So again, you are being very transparent by completely disregarding the guns as if they somehow aren't part of the gun violence problem.
Either way. I think this is where I drop out of this. We are going in circles and while I agree we should work on the things you mention, we clearly just disagree about the actual guns themselves. And of course neither of us are actually in a direct position to make changes to any of those things, I assume. So you have a good one.
Those are all fantastic suggestions. In my opinion we absolutely should be taking much more drastic measures to decrease school shootings in the meantime, as nearly everything you suggest would still take at least ~15-20 years to see results. Any dead kid is too many and there are way too many school shootings.
Lol fantastic response. And its crickets from everyone else being critical
No, not crickets. Those things sound great, let's do them. We should do everything we can, and that also includes stricter gun laws.
Not term limits though. It may sound like a good idea, but I implore you to research issues with term limits.
Term limits need to happen, otherwise you end up being ruled by politicians who are in a perpetual cycle of trying to stay in office.
Term limits will seal the deal to the end of our Democracy.
Either you're arguing in bad faith, and know this, or you're refusing to inform yourself of the downsides.
So you're ok with SCOTUS and other judges being appointed and no term limits? What about the POTUS, are you saying it's ok if Trump won and kept being president as long as he continues to win?
Please tell me the good sides of having no term limits. Laws shouldn't be straped to a single person.
Buddy, I'm not going to do all the work for you. This is a well researched subject with a ton of information, it's not some brand new idea.
I was mainly referring to elected positions, I'm not necessarily against term limits for Supreme Court Justices.
Edit: See my reply to the knob below for a few sources.
Lol that's a cop out for, I don't have anything other than shit from life long politicians who say it's bad. You're the one making the claim not me.
Oh my fucking god, do like 3 seconds of googling before being so goddamn confident you're correct. Jesus Christ, I'm not your fucking nanny:
You might want to read your own articles...none of them strictly state how term limits are bad. The NPR article even calls out the bullshit. Most politicians shouldn't be politicians in the first place, because they're not there to do good, they're there to get reelected.
Nothing will improve the situation until we make a concerted effort to shut down gun manufacturing and distribution, even forcibly removing them from the hands of criminals any way we possibly can. And since the kid-killers at the NRA won't allow that, the answer is - this problem of mass murder in schools is only going to intensify until everyone's child is at risk and can no longer attend public schools of any kind. And that's only the tip of the horrific iceberg of a shitshow that's coming to our country.
Wow you're really off the deep end aren't you...I thought most conspiracy theory nut jobs where mainly right wing...but shit you just went into over drive and leaned hard left on that one...
I am as leftist as any human being ever could be - and damn proud of it. Saying the truth always seems like "going off the deep end" to people who aren't able to comprehend. I consider your remark proof of that.
Yes, let's not rush into to taking any sort of precaution to protect our kids. Much better to have this wild West situation we have going on now just in case me, Clyde, and Peepaw need to go toe-to-toe with the US Government in some sort of hypothetical hyperbolic David vs Goliath scenario. Totes makes fucking sense, dunnit.
As a gun owner, I recognize how absolutely lax the gun laws are. Let them make it harder to buy a gun. It won't hurt you. At least then I know fucking "Off-His-Meds" Jeb down the street from me won't be able to buy an AR-15 and mow down my family because my weeds keep "blowing on his lawn" or whatever inane shit he constantly yells as me about.
Maybe you could stop being susceptible to all of the gun lobbyists arguments and learn to think for yourself at some point. I don't know. That's just my 2¢. Maybe once you have a kid or grandkid going through school your tune will change.
Exactly. Let's not even raise a finger to do the minimum amount to stop guns getting into the hands of impulsive kids or men to begin with...lets just give a gun to every motherfuckin' buttwipe out there and let everyone shoot at whoever they want. Eventually one person will be left, with nothing but a ruined earth to comfort themselves. And maybe that's truly what should happen, poetically justice speaking.
The only times I see pistols is when I see policemen.
The only times I see machine guns is in the hands of policemen at the airport, or when extremist groups are demonstrating and need protection by the police.
Why would I even need a gun, when hardly any criminal owns one?
The concept of gun ownership is flawed in itself.
There's nothing inherently wrong with gun ownership. However, there is a shit ton wrong on how we handle distribution and tracking of them. We have more prerequisites for operating a vehicle than we do a firearm, and in a country where we have a SIGNIFICANT number of mass shootings, we are doing SIGNIFICANTLY little to fix the issue.
Gun ownership is totally fine. I bought a handgun and a shotgun on the same day (after someone tried to break in and attack my wife - they didn't realize that I had just come home from a trip) and was blown away that I could just walk right out the door with them within a few minutes. A rifle for hunting is also not an issue.
Fun fact: handguns are used in mass shootings more often than AR15s. In fact, all rifles, of which AR15s is merely the most popular type, are responsible for ~500/60,000 gun deaths/yr in the US. Probably because, as you may guess, handguns are a lot more concealable than rifles.
Also, be fair about the buying process, you still went through the National Instant Criminal background check system. Sure instant checks don't take long anymore due to Al Gore inventing the internet in the 90s, but they do still happen and adding arbitrary length does nothing to stop crimes. In fact even if they did, they don't stop nor are they designed to stop the types of planned attack we're talking about (mass casualty events), they are to stop "crimes of passion" (guy killing his wife), and there's some contention that they effectively do that as it isn't like the couple necessarily receives the proper counseling, so he just picks it up and does it next time he's in a wife killin' mood, or if he can't wait goes all Chris Benoit or that "Stairs" jerkoff.
Sounds like a good reason to highly regulate handguns to me.
They are regulated.
There is a difference between regulated and highly regulated?
Crimes like straw purchasing or lying on a NICs form are punishable by 10yr in prison, federal prison in some cases. I'd say that's pretty "high."
You know what would be a lot higher? Not letting mentally ill people or domestic abusers, or people who have shown to use them in an unsafe manner around children have access to them. But apparently that is way too far in America.
People who have been convicted of domestic violence are already federally barred from firearms ownership, same for people who have been involuntarily committed, and child endangerment is already also a crime that falls outside the scope of simply firearms.
Not for long.
That's not what I said, I said a history of mental illness.
But it doesn't include handgun ownership, which you know full well. And that's what we're talking about here.
But since you are blatantly misrepresenting what I said and being incredibly dishonest, I don't think this conversation needs to continue.
Ah, so you want to nebulously define mental illness to include depressed people, people with ADHD, BPD, Bi-polar, and trans people as "undesireables." Well this ableist position thankfully isn't the law and it requires proof that a person is actually dangerous before stripping their rights. Furthermore all it does is make people less likely to seek the help they actually need for fear of being barred from rights for having a mental illness that wouldn't have made them be violent anyway (stop stigmatizing the mentally ill btw, do better.)
Ah but it does. If someone is actually endangering their children with a handgun it absolutely applies, but no, "owning a handgun" isn't in and of itself child endangerment and your suggestion that it should be is quite laughable.
You seem to have a habit of cutting and running every time I prove that you have no idea what you're talking about. By all means take your ball and go home lol.
I cannot relate to that. I am 37 years old and I think I have never witnessed violent crime, except in television or on playgrounds (children are assholes to each other!)
Yeah, it was terrifying. Like the guy knew she was there, we had just put the dog outside, so they were obviously watching the house. They tried to kick in the front door, and I ran to the front door have naked and half asleep. The terror slammed full force into me when I realized someone was at our door (could see through glass), and I had no weapon to deal with them. They ran as soon as they saw me. I had just gotten home late the night before, so they obviously knew that I wasn't home, and the knew that my wife was.
It still wigs me out to this day.
How long does the police need to arrive at your home? For me in case of an active break in it would probably be around 120 to 180 seconds. So this usually only happens when nobody is home, it’s too dangerous otherwise.
Someone stole my e-bike from the back yard. And I have heard of break ins in cellars. But that kind of crime that you describe is very very rare.
Does that mean that gun ownership is a side effect of a security system that has flaws in itself?
National average response time to emergencies is 11min, 23 to non emergencies. In the cities it'll be "less" (maybe, and not much), but in the country it could be hours.
That’s long. 😱 For non emergencies I have waited long times. Like 40 minutes or even hours. But when I called the fire department once it came like 30 seconds after I had hung up. And it was just a smoking trash can, nothing really dangerous.
Fire dept is a bit quicker I think but they only protect you from fires of course, also, analogous to firearms, fire extinguishers are good to have on hand if a fire breaks out. Also, fortunately the fire often doesn't actively prevent you calling the fire dept, though often due to the nature of being victimized violently you won't be able to even call the police until after the event unless you're lucky, you often have to focus on fighting or running in the moment.
People are not always logical. Even if the cops could get there within 2 minutes, that's still 2 minutes that you have to deal with someone that is intent on doing harm to you. I wouldn't want to risk that.
The police also have no legal obligation to protect you. Meaning if there is a situation that they consider "dangerous" they might not even enter the house to protect you. Like....I'm not hedging all of my bets on a cop to protect me. Because there's still a chance that I lose.
I understand your point that there's not really any point to having weapons when we have a "protector", but we've already seen that those "protectors" have no obligation to actually protect you if they feel endangered. Guns are tools. A rifle is a tool to provide food for yourself. A handgun/shotgun is a tool that you use to protect yourself. We just shouldn't hand those tools out to literally everyone that wants one.
Here, they are less afraid because almost no household is armed. It is a dangerous situation to enter a home, but they always come in pairs and might do so with guns drawn.
But we are talking about very extreme cases. German police shot 14 people in 2017, 11 in 2018, and 15 in 2019. So about the same amount of people that die from lightning strikes. The vast majority of policemen do not discharge their gun in their whole line of duty.
If you compare likelihood of violent crime the bigger danger comes from people inside your house, rather than burglary. Therefore, weapons in houses would make life more dangerous here, since you are less likely to escape your step mother armed with a gun, than your step mother armed with a kitchen knife.
PS: I don’t know your step mother. Maybe she is a world class samurai swordswoman. I apologise if my analogy insulted her.
Yeah but my dude, before any of this happens, you're way morelikely to just lose your shit yourself and murder yourself or one of your family or more.
Live by the sword die by the sword I guess.
No we do not, you can purchase a car at any age, transport it across any state lines, drive it without insurance or a license at any age on private property, and you don't have to register it once to do any of this.
Yea as a gun owner lol what bullshit are you shoveling?
And that shit doesn't happen, stop making up bullshit scenarios....not even going to speak on the fact that none of what you said or propose will stop someone from obtaining a firearm. It's not illegal to sell privately and as you probably know prohibition didn't work.
Every other country has a FRACTION OF A FRACTION of the amount of shootings that we do, and you have the gall to sit there and go "none of what you said or propose will stop someone", when politicians and gun control groups have literally proposed NUMEROUS extremely common sense fixes to help curb the violence. It's fucking loons like you that rally against it ad nauseum because "DeMs CuMmInG fEr MuH gUnS!1!". You're nothing but a gun lobbyists mouthpiece who would rather let kids get killed so you can keep an overpowered AR than try LITERALLY anything to help alleviate the situation.
No one is coming for my shotgun, or my handgun, or my hunting rifle. Literally no one will ever pass a law that will ban those. Red flag laws WORK. Mandatory withholding periods WORK. Banning AR weapons and bump stocks would be a step in the right direction. Pushing these laws on a federal level would help. Would it stop everything? No, but it would provide a LOT more opportunities to catch someone before it happens.
Fuck, do something to help our kids, don't be the barrier that makes it more difficult.
Lol and you're a mouth piece for emotional ignorance...you even saying no one is touching your handguns when 95% of all gun deaths are via handguns...rifles of all kinds are around 3% of all gun deaths, and then the AR style rifles make up around 50 deaths a year...50...more kids are killed by being punched and kicked to death by an order of magnitude 10xs the amount done via AR pattern rifles.
Wanna actually do something to help, stop focusing on guns, you're not going to stop the violence that way. Focus on:
We can start with:
Single payer healthcare
Ending the War on Drugs
Ending Qualified immunity
Properly funding our schools and not just rich white suburb schools.
Build more schools and hire more teachers for proper pay so the class room sizes aren't 30-40 kids for one teacher.
UBI (at least start talking about it) once AI takes over most of the blue collar jobs.
End for profit prisons
Enforce the laws already on the books
Make sure there are safety nets for poor families so the kids don't turn to violence/gangs to survive.
Increase the minimum wage
Recreate our mental healthcare so kids don't turn to the internet for support. And to help veterans not end up as a suicide number.
Actively make a law to solidify Pro-choice rights. More unwanted children do not help our situation.
Banning Insider Trading for Congress
Term limits
Ranked Choice Voting so we can move away from a 2 party system
So what do you think is going to decrease school shootings? What are you proposing or support that will improve the situation?
We can start with:
Single payer healthcare
Ending the War on Drugs
Ending Qualified immunity
Properly funding our schools and not just rich white suburb schools.
Build more schools and hire more teachers for proper pay so the class room sizes aren't 30-40 kids for one teacher.
UBI (at least start talking about it) once AI takes over most of the blue collar jobs.
End for profit prisons
Enforce the laws already on the books
Make sure there are safety nets for poor families so the kids don't turn to violence/gangs to survive.
Increase the minimum wage
Recreate our mental healthcare so kids don't turn to the internet for support. And to help veterans not end up as a suicide number.
Actively make a law to solidify Pro-choice rights. More unwanted children do not help our situation.
Banning Insider Trading for Congress
Term limits
Ranked Choice Voting so we can move away from a 2 party system
So basically... Fix every other nearly impossible to fix problem first before even deciding to do anything about the actual guns, if anything at all?
And to be clear, by impossible to fix, I mean politically, not that these problems are actually unsolvable.
So you're plan is to try and tackle something that's written into the constitution.... that's your goal? Say it's nearly impossible to do everything else on that list which isn't written into our constitution...but guns... they're easier to fix...fucking hell you all are really naive.
You mean like slavery?
Are you equating slavery to owning firearms? You white privileged ivory tower types are hilarious.
Nope. I'm equating slavery to tackling something in the constitution and changing it. You know, the thing you just implied was not something that could be done. I'm sure you know that and are obfuscating.
Yea everyone basically agreed slavery was bad...we fought a fucking civil war over it...the majority of the USA is pro-gun. You will never radify the constitution to remove or nullify the 2nd. It's not going to ever happen.
If everyone agreed, why did we fight a civil war over it?
Are you suggesting we fight another civil war so you can repeal the 2nd amendment? You do realize who wins that one right?
You didn't answer my question. If everyone agreed, why was there a war over it?
I didn't specify a plan one way or another. I just think it's crazy that the talking points you presented seem pretty clearly designed to just kick this issue down the road, cause at least that way you still get to have your guns.
And believe me, solving all those things you mentioned would be great. But why not also try and do something about the major gun issues at the same time too?
Those "talking points" would solve our firearm violence. We don't have a gun problem, we have a societal one. Random mass shootings are a new phenomenon...gang violence and drug violence are not. Solving these things with the list I posted, would curb our violence epidemic 100xs more than just another emotional gun law from people who don't understand guns.
We do have a societal problem. We also very much have a gun problem.
And proposing all these other things you know won't get accomplished is a way to shift all the responsibility away from the gun issue itself.
And you aren't being emotional about even the thought of some more gun control or anything to even tackle that issue head on? Come on.
It might be because I'm not delusional about why we have the violence in the first place. I'm proposing things that actually would make a difference, another AWB or mag cap/mag ban/etc is emotional policies that will not put a single dent in our gun violence... I'm not the one kicking the can down the road, you are.
I personally didn't propose any of those policies. I genuinely don't know what would work best. I just think you are being really transparent in treating the guns themselves as having nothing to do with the issue of gun violence.
I think everything you were saying would be great to accomplish. It's just really disingenuous to propose them knowing there is a slim chance any of them will happen while completely ignoring the actual guns, just because you want to keep your guns.
The statistics and other countries show that violence is mainly driven by poverty and ignorance. Work on those two main things, and you slow the violence.
And most other countries also have much stricter gun control laws too.
We could work on those things and the gun problem too.
So again, you are being very transparent by completely disregarding the guns as if they somehow aren't part of the gun violence problem.
Either way. I think this is where I drop out of this. We are going in circles and while I agree we should work on the things you mention, we clearly just disagree about the actual guns themselves. And of course neither of us are actually in a direct position to make changes to any of those things, I assume. So you have a good one.
Those are all fantastic suggestions. In my opinion we absolutely should be taking much more drastic measures to decrease school shootings in the meantime, as nearly everything you suggest would still take at least ~15-20 years to see results. Any dead kid is too many and there are way too many school shootings.
Lol fantastic response. And its crickets from everyone else being critical
No, not crickets. Those things sound great, let's do them. We should do everything we can, and that also includes stricter gun laws.
Not term limits though. It may sound like a good idea, but I implore you to research issues with term limits.
Term limits need to happen, otherwise you end up being ruled by politicians who are in a perpetual cycle of trying to stay in office.
Term limits will seal the deal to the end of our Democracy.
Either you're arguing in bad faith, and know this, or you're refusing to inform yourself of the downsides.
So you're ok with SCOTUS and other judges being appointed and no term limits? What about the POTUS, are you saying it's ok if Trump won and kept being president as long as he continues to win?
Please tell me the good sides of having no term limits. Laws shouldn't be straped to a single person.
Buddy, I'm not going to do all the work for you. This is a well researched subject with a ton of information, it's not some brand new idea.
I was mainly referring to elected positions, I'm not necessarily against term limits for Supreme Court Justices.
Edit: See my reply to the knob below for a few sources.
Lol that's a cop out for, I don't have anything other than shit from life long politicians who say it's bad. You're the one making the claim not me.
Oh my fucking god, do like 3 seconds of googling before being so goddamn confident you're correct. Jesus Christ, I'm not your fucking nanny:
look at that, pretty much the first result and it's NPR - https://www.npr.org/2023/10/29/1207593168/congressional-term-limits-explainer
More because apparently you can't do anything yourself. But don't expect me to pull out the relevant quotes or anything, you can do that:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/16/term-limits-congress-senate-house/
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/term-limits-exacerbate-all-the-problems-with-our-government.html
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3979677-term-limits-wouldnt-clean-up-congress-they-could-make-things-worse/
https://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2016/10/18/13323842/trump-term-limits
Good enough, or...?
You might want to read your own articles...none of them strictly state how term limits are bad. The NPR article even calls out the bullshit. Most politicians shouldn't be politicians in the first place, because they're not there to do good, they're there to get reelected.
And you can end with bringing your gun regulations up to speed to every other developed nation.
Or not because it's not the guns... it's our society that needs fixing.
Nothing will improve the situation until we make a concerted effort to shut down gun manufacturing and distribution, even forcibly removing them from the hands of criminals any way we possibly can. And since the kid-killers at the NRA won't allow that, the answer is - this problem of mass murder in schools is only going to intensify until everyone's child is at risk and can no longer attend public schools of any kind. And that's only the tip of the horrific iceberg of a shitshow that's coming to our country.
Wow you're really off the deep end aren't you...I thought most conspiracy theory nut jobs where mainly right wing...but shit you just went into over drive and leaned hard left on that one...
I am as leftist as any human being ever could be - and damn proud of it. Saying the truth always seems like "going off the deep end" to people who aren't able to comprehend. I consider your remark proof of that.