i know many of you all just LOVE to hate on Tesla, it's like the shit flavor of he year for hating and no doubt Elon's shit fuckery is partially driving it, but honestly this is an absolutely classic Forbes piece of garbage. Firstly, it's a masterclass in selective bias - focusing solely on Tesla while barely whispering about Ram's near-similar accident rates. Classic move to sensationalize one brand over another. Then there's the U.S. only scope, which conveniently ignores the global context which could paint a vastly different picture. The article kicks off with a 'non-causal' disclaimer but then spends the rest of the time subtly linking Tesla's Autopilot to the high accident rate, without concrete evidence. It's a bit like saying 'no offense' before offending someone.
The Tesla recall is mentioned, sneakily implying a connection to the accident rate, despite the lack of direct correlation. The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.
Two things are true. The article is garbage, but so are Teslas.
They’re not, though. Elon can suck it but my Tesla is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned and it’s not even close.
I heard that you don't even have to open the door, you just slide in through a panel gap
Are you comparing with other cars at the same price range or cheaper cars?
I don't know but based from my experience(since you also commented based on your experience), compared to some other brands although Tesla are better than some cheaper models of other brands, some are better than Tesla if you compared to the models with the same price range
Yes, some brands might be worse, but Tesla is not quite considered as being the best
Some cheaper, some the same price range.
What’s your experience based on? Do you own one? Or is this just third-hand?
I don’t care what it’s considered. It’s the best car I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned Fords, Dodges, VWs, Toyotas, and BMWs.
I love that you were downvoted, for all we know your previous vehicle was a Daewoo or something. A Tesla is likely a better quality vehicle than a Daewoo.
You sound like a forbes article
Edit for clarification. My comment was intended to a be a bit tongue in cheek and its because of this part of the top comment that i made what i thought was clearly a light hearted joke. Sorry if it wasnt so obvious
The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.
In response to the assertion of owning a Daewoo. I assumed your comment i replied to was also referencing this quote
Lemmy is pretty toxic. There are 5 opinions allowed on here and your personal experience is irrelevant.
Pretty much. I'm looking through the replies I've received, and one says, "You sound like a forbes article" with two upvotes and only one downvote. Why would I continue to contribute to this community if that's how people are going to act?
There’s a small center of people who are actually knowledgeable and courteous here. You just have to wade through the shit and sewage to get to it.
Yeah, and I need to get back to blocking people. The signal improved drastically when I was doing that a while back.
Sadly, you'll never be able to say anything nice about any Musk properties here without massive downvotes by people who wouldn't purchase anything from Musk.
The hardware (occasional bad quality control aside) is pretty awesome. My neighbor has one, His holiday update was an absolute hoot. They're fast, clean, comfortable and are generally long lasting, low maintenance cars.
When you factor in EV and Price, there's nothing that stands out as nicer from a pure hardware standpoint.
They could use a few more buttons inside. When they become disabled on the road, their requirement for you to have them do the towing and taking hours to do so sucks. Suing people over selling their vehicles second hand is pretty bad. No second party repairs allowed is a problem.
The real 800 lb gorilla in the room is the autopilot. The only redeemable thing about the auto pilot is that it mostly works and it's pushing the tech forward. They have enough money to lobby congress to make it legal, all those 730+ wrecks and *42+ deaths as horrible as they are, will lead us to the feature being viable eventually.
*edit: found a newer source
I bought mine way before Musk became a right-wing nutjob asshole and wouldn’t buy another of his cars now unless something changed with their leadership structure.
That doesn’t mean that I can retroactively say the car sucks now. It is a fantastic vehicle. I don’t use Autopilot so that part doesn’t apply (tried it during a trial and wasn’t impressed) but, as a car, I have no qualms.
Yeah, I wonder if he became one, or if he was already one and just did a better job at hiding it.
Probably a bit of both. Before the hair plugs, he probably did want to help the world. Now he just wants to help himself.
It's like he had a really bad drug trip at some point and rewired some synapses
Ah yes a personal anecdote is 100% more valid.
That said, from what I've heard the big problem is the disparity of build quality. Some Tesla's (like possibly yours) are built amazing. Some others are put together like shit.
Which is basically true for every brand, not only Tesla.
Every brand isn't evangelized in the same way the cult of Elon pushed their golden goose. They're run of the mill or worse than industry averages.
Couple this with the ridiculous price point on the vehicles and you have apple cars so to that point I can understand the delusional obsession with the brand and supporting it
Every brand isn’t evangelized in the same way the cult of Elon pushed their golden goose.
Maybe, but ask an Alfa Romeo fans about the brand... they are way worse than the Tesla fans... 😉
They’re run of the mill or worse than industry averages.
Look, I can tell way worse things about Renault if I look at how my car came out, so ? And I would concede that Tesla is pretty new to mass producted cars. During the years I found many quality problems also with brand that are even more evangelized and have a way longer history.
Couple this with the ridiculous price point on the vehicles and you have apple cars so to that point I can understand the delusional obsession with the brand and supporting it
In Italy, a couple of models (Y and 3) are pretty much aligned with other brand's cars of the same category, so they don't seems to be that expensive. Or the other brands are too expensive.
At least I provided some kind of evidence, even if it’s an anecdote. You made a generalization with absolutely no evidence.
That’s fine if there’s a disparity but it’s not as common as your statement makes it seem.
Personal experience is not scientific or journalistic fact. As for providing evidence Google it. There's lots of reputable sites that will tell you their build quality is inconsistent AF as well as they intentionally bully owners to accept shit.
Personal experience is still evidence. It's not objective evidence, which normally would be a problem, but you haven't provided any whatsoever. "Google it" doesn't serve as a replacement for it, either.
I'll keep going if you need me to do your research for you. Not really because not my job to educate you but still.
None of those say what you claimed.
Your first Lemmy link just links to an article that says 10 to 20 thousand vehicles. Considering they’ve sold millions, their rates are actually below lots of other manufacturers by volume. They’re not the best by any stretch but they are far from the worst, as you stated.
The 2nd is the same - “tens of thousands”. That means less than 1% of their cars sold.
The last link has nothing to do with build quality and its source is a LendingTree article based on insurance data that is specious. Their “safest” cars are vehicles that haven’t been produced in over 10 years. They clearly have issues with their data and even have a disclaimer at the top of the source.
If you’re going to be a condescending ass, at least get your information straight instead of falling right into the sensationalist bs that you’re complaining about.
Anything to avoid doing your own research eh? Will happily "fact check" my shit but God forbid you do your own work? I may be a condescending ass but at least my head isn't up one.
It's clear I won't find anything outside of Elon telling you they're crap for you to believe but by all means Consumer Reports and JD Power having them run of the mill or worse surely can't be legit.
Oh wait. Elon has stated before their quality issues are shit. Of course you'll dismiss it because "hurr durr it was years ago"
I have done my own research and I own a Model 3. Your head clearly is up your ass because nothing that you've provided here disproves what I said - that the issues you're discussing make up less than 1% of the cars they've sold. On top of that, Consumer Reports ranks the Model 3 as one of their top vehicles for build and reliability. The Model 3 lost that score in 2019 for less than a year because there were build issues with a small percentage of the cars being produced.
I'm not dismissing that they had a QC issues with a small amount of the cars. I never did dismiss that. I'm simply acknowledging that you're making it out to be a far bigger issue than it actually was and their actual numbers are better than nearly every car maker out there for the number of vehicles they've sold (and in such a short period of time).
If you're going to claim people have their heads up their asses, you'd need to pull yours out first to actually be able to see anything. On top of that, I don't like Elon. So I don't know why him saying anything would sway me in one direction or another considering he's a serial liar.
When this was posted yesterday, I brought up issues with the sample selection (not random) and universe the "study" looked at (people using one of those sites to shop for insurance), and while I think most understood my point, some people got upset at me "defending Tesla drivers"...
Forbes is shit and I wish people would stop taking them seriously.
To be fair, Tesla / Musk spend a LOT of time talking about how they’re autonomous driving product are critical for reducing accidents and saving lives. Also, there isn’t a lot of public quantitative data around this major recall. That’s why they’re getting the headline.
Maybe autopilot is great, and it’s the non-autopilot drivers that are terrible, but right now, the brand has net accident rate that rivals a company that sells massive rolling blind spots to people who love Calvin pissing stickers.
How exactly could this study give a concrete reason for the higher than average crash rates?
Huh, so like every single article nowadays, basically.
Last time a garbage clickbait hit-piece like this pissed me off, I looked into the crash statistics myself and found Tesla vehicles were around 1/80th the average crash ratio per capita.
I'm sure this is somewhat skewed by the kinds of people driving them versus the average work vehicles and clunkers out there, but still, it just feels absurdly false to claim Teslas even approach the highest crash rate.
And even the sketchy "study" not even endorsed by the site it's posted to, then linked by Forbes, then says Ram vehicles as the highest crash rate (lol), so it's wild that Forbes goes on to say it's Tesla at the top spot.
Per capita means nothing in this situation.
Comparing with the per capita means nothing here, you need to compare with other car companies, as comparing to the per capita is like comparing the number of lung cancer deaths to the number of all deaths, of course it's going to be a very small number, but when you compare with other cancers then you can see that lung cancer is one of biggest killers amongst cancers
Thank you. This is exactly right, it's a hit piece designed to get people who already don't like Tesla all worked up... and it worked remarkably well.
i know many of you all just LOVE to hate on Tesla, it's like the shit flavor of he year for hating and no doubt Elon's shit fuckery is partially driving it, but honestly this is an absolutely classic Forbes piece of garbage. Firstly, it's a masterclass in selective bias - focusing solely on Tesla while barely whispering about Ram's near-similar accident rates. Classic move to sensationalize one brand over another. Then there's the U.S. only scope, which conveniently ignores the global context which could paint a vastly different picture. The article kicks off with a 'non-causal' disclaimer but then spends the rest of the time subtly linking Tesla's Autopilot to the high accident rate, without concrete evidence. It's a bit like saying 'no offense' before offending someone.
The Tesla recall is mentioned, sneakily implying a connection to the accident rate, despite the lack of direct correlation. The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.
Two things are true. The article is garbage, but so are Teslas.
They’re not, though. Elon can suck it but my Tesla is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned and it’s not even close.
I heard that you don't even have to open the door, you just slide in through a panel gap
Are you comparing with other cars at the same price range or cheaper cars?
I don't know but based from my experience(since you also commented based on your experience), compared to some other brands although Tesla are better than some cheaper models of other brands, some are better than Tesla if you compared to the models with the same price range
Yes, some brands might be worse, but Tesla is not quite considered as being the best
Some cheaper, some the same price range.
What’s your experience based on? Do you own one? Or is this just third-hand?
I don’t care what it’s considered. It’s the best car I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned Fords, Dodges, VWs, Toyotas, and BMWs.
I love that you were downvoted, for all we know your previous vehicle was a Daewoo or something. A Tesla is likely a better quality vehicle than a Daewoo.
You sound like a forbes article
Edit for clarification. My comment was intended to a be a bit tongue in cheek and its because of this part of the top comment that i made what i thought was clearly a light hearted joke. Sorry if it wasnt so obvious
In response to the assertion of owning a Daewoo. I assumed your comment i replied to was also referencing this quote
Lemmy is pretty toxic. There are 5 opinions allowed on here and your personal experience is irrelevant.
Pretty much. I'm looking through the replies I've received, and one says, "You sound like a forbes article" with two upvotes and only one downvote. Why would I continue to contribute to this community if that's how people are going to act?
There’s a small center of people who are actually knowledgeable and courteous here. You just have to wade through the shit and sewage to get to it.
Yeah, and I need to get back to blocking people. The signal improved drastically when I was doing that a while back.
Sadly, you'll never be able to say anything nice about any Musk properties here without massive downvotes by people who wouldn't purchase anything from Musk.
The hardware (occasional bad quality control aside) is pretty awesome. My neighbor has one, His holiday update was an absolute hoot. They're fast, clean, comfortable and are generally long lasting, low maintenance cars.
When you factor in EV and Price, there's nothing that stands out as nicer from a pure hardware standpoint.
They could use a few more buttons inside. When they become disabled on the road, their requirement for you to have them do the towing and taking hours to do so sucks. Suing people over selling their vehicles second hand is pretty bad. No second party repairs allowed is a problem.
The real 800 lb gorilla in the room is the autopilot. The only redeemable thing about the auto pilot is that it mostly works and it's pushing the tech forward. They have enough money to lobby congress to make it legal, all those 730+ wrecks and *42+ deaths as horrible as they are, will lead us to the feature being viable eventually.
*edit: found a newer source
I bought mine way before Musk became a right-wing nutjob asshole and wouldn’t buy another of his cars now unless something changed with their leadership structure.
That doesn’t mean that I can retroactively say the car sucks now. It is a fantastic vehicle. I don’t use Autopilot so that part doesn’t apply (tried it during a trial and wasn’t impressed) but, as a car, I have no qualms.
Yeah, I wonder if he became one, or if he was already one and just did a better job at hiding it.
Probably a bit of both. Before the hair plugs, he probably did want to help the world. Now he just wants to help himself.
It's like he had a really bad drug trip at some point and rewired some synapses
Ah yes a personal anecdote is 100% more valid.
That said, from what I've heard the big problem is the disparity of build quality. Some Tesla's (like possibly yours) are built amazing. Some others are put together like shit.
Which is basically true for every brand, not only Tesla.
Every brand isn't evangelized in the same way the cult of Elon pushed their golden goose. They're run of the mill or worse than industry averages.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2022-us-initial-quality-study-iqs
Couple this with the ridiculous price point on the vehicles and you have apple cars so to that point I can understand the delusional obsession with the brand and supporting it
Maybe, but ask an Alfa Romeo fans about the brand... they are way worse than the Tesla fans... 😉
Look, I can tell way worse things about Renault if I look at how my car came out, so ? And I would concede that Tesla is pretty new to mass producted cars. During the years I found many quality problems also with brand that are even more evangelized and have a way longer history.
In Italy, a couple of models (Y and 3) are pretty much aligned with other brand's cars of the same category, so they don't seems to be that expensive. Or the other brands are too expensive.
At least I provided some kind of evidence, even if it’s an anecdote. You made a generalization with absolutely no evidence.
That’s fine if there’s a disparity but it’s not as common as your statement makes it seem.
Personal experience is not scientific or journalistic fact. As for providing evidence Google it. There's lots of reputable sites that will tell you their build quality is inconsistent AF as well as they intentionally bully owners to accept shit.
Personal experience is still evidence. It's not objective evidence, which normally would be a problem, but you haven't provided any whatsoever. "Google it" doesn't serve as a replacement for it, either.
https://lemmy.ca/comment/5795499
Also this -
https://lemmy.nz/post/4638562
Also this -
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2023/12/18/tesla-has-the-highest-accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/amp/
I'll keep going if you need me to do your research for you. Not really because not my job to educate you but still.
None of those say what you claimed.
Your first Lemmy link just links to an article that says 10 to 20 thousand vehicles. Considering they’ve sold millions, their rates are actually below lots of other manufacturers by volume. They’re not the best by any stretch but they are far from the worst, as you stated.
The 2nd is the same - “tens of thousands”. That means less than 1% of their cars sold.
The last link has nothing to do with build quality and its source is a LendingTree article based on insurance data that is specious. Their “safest” cars are vehicles that haven’t been produced in over 10 years. They clearly have issues with their data and even have a disclaimer at the top of the source.
If you’re going to be a condescending ass, at least get your information straight instead of falling right into the sensationalist bs that you’re complaining about.
Anything to avoid doing your own research eh? Will happily "fact check" my shit but God forbid you do your own work? I may be a condescending ass but at least my head isn't up one.
It's clear I won't find anything outside of Elon telling you they're crap for you to believe but by all means Consumer Reports and JD Power having them run of the mill or worse surely can't be legit.
Oh wait. Elon has stated before their quality issues are shit. Of course you'll dismiss it because "hurr durr it was years ago"
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/business/elon-musk-tesla-quality-problems/index.html
Best of luck and enjoy your Tesla!
I have done my own research and I own a Model 3. Your head clearly is up your ass because nothing that you've provided here disproves what I said - that the issues you're discussing make up less than 1% of the cars they've sold. On top of that, Consumer Reports ranks the Model 3 as one of their top vehicles for build and reliability. The Model 3 lost that score in 2019 for less than a year because there were build issues with a small percentage of the cars being produced.
I'm not dismissing that they had a QC issues with a small amount of the cars. I never did dismiss that. I'm simply acknowledging that you're making it out to be a far bigger issue than it actually was and their actual numbers are better than nearly every car maker out there for the number of vehicles they've sold (and in such a short period of time).
If you're going to claim people have their heads up their asses, you'd need to pull yours out first to actually be able to see anything. On top of that, I don't like Elon. So I don't know why him saying anything would sway me in one direction or another considering he's a serial liar.
When this was posted yesterday, I brought up issues with the sample selection (not random) and universe the "study" looked at (people using one of those sites to shop for insurance), and while I think most understood my point, some people got upset at me "defending Tesla drivers"...
Forbes is shit and I wish people would stop taking them seriously.
To be fair, Tesla / Musk spend a LOT of time talking about how they’re autonomous driving product are critical for reducing accidents and saving lives. Also, there isn’t a lot of public quantitative data around this major recall. That’s why they’re getting the headline.
Maybe autopilot is great, and it’s the non-autopilot drivers that are terrible, but right now, the brand has net accident rate that rivals a company that sells massive rolling blind spots to people who love Calvin pissing stickers.
How exactly could this study give a concrete reason for the higher than average crash rates?
Huh, so like every single article nowadays, basically.
Last time a garbage clickbait hit-piece like this pissed me off, I looked into the crash statistics myself and found Tesla vehicles were around 1/80th the average crash ratio per capita.
I'm sure this is somewhat skewed by the kinds of people driving them versus the average work vehicles and clunkers out there, but still, it just feels absurdly false to claim Teslas even approach the highest crash rate.
And even the sketchy "study" not even endorsed by the site it's posted to, then linked by Forbes, then says Ram vehicles as the highest crash rate (lol), so it's wild that Forbes goes on to say it's Tesla at the top spot.
Per capita means nothing in this situation.
Comparing with the per capita means nothing here, you need to compare with other car companies, as comparing to the per capita is like comparing the number of lung cancer deaths to the number of all deaths, of course it's going to be a very small number, but when you compare with other cancers then you can see that lung cancer is one of biggest killers amongst cancers
Thank you. This is exactly right, it's a hit piece designed to get people who already don't like Tesla all worked up... and it worked remarkably well.