I see ads in TV that are pro Isreal now with Santa crying because of Hamas kidnapped people. I know it's what about ism but not really moral high ground here when IDF literally wipes whole familes.
Its not what-about-ism.
Being accused of attacking civilians and saying the enemy is attacking civilians to divert attention is what-about-ism.
Crying that the enemy is attacking civilians while you are also attacking civilians is hypocrisy.
Calling out your own/allied government for attacking civilians and trying to hold them accountable even if the enemy attacks civilians as well is being a good person.
whataboutism is perfectly valid here
What
Where are those ads
Here we dont have anything similar and we would prolly wont even accept it
Israel is trying to justify more murder
They literally knew this was coming and attacked Israel anyway. They knew because the response was harsh and disproportionate last time and ten times prior to that. Blood is on both sides' hands. Hamas hiding behind civilians is not helping either.
I also understand their desire to fight oppression, but it's obvious they can't and will never be able to win war of any kind. Their fight must be done through different means.
Bomb Hamas until you can see China through the crater, I really don't care. But most people living in Gaza did not choose this and are just caught in the middle.
I imagine you would not be happy if your whole apartment building with your family inside was bombed because your neighbor assaulted an officer.
That's my point, although not as cleanly stated. To me this whole thing is Hamas kicking hornets nest then running away and hiding while civilians get stung. And this repeats every few years. And no point has anyone sat down and thought: wait maybe this is a bad idea.
Yeah, they are terrorists. They don't care about civilians. Big surprise.
The concerning thing is that Israel and US don't seem to care about them either.
They are political party of Gaza. That's why the recent ceasefire condition was for Hamas to leave Gaza
The thing with terrorism is the moment you show weakness they will keep exploiting that and repeating what works.
I get what you're saying. And might even agree with elements. But it is easy to say it's futile to fight when you aren't in a position to need to. Doing nothing in this case means resigning not just yourself to being under their oppression, and not even just your friends and family. It is resigning your entire culture to a slow painful death by attrition. They are losing more and more land, rights, and any hope of progress. Like... if someone is strangling you, do you fight back, or just resign yourself to it? And that's before we even get into the fact that those complying and not fighting are still being killed. Those not fighting and wanting to leave were lured to slaughter. Not fighting is an illusory choice.
If someone invaded your home, locked you in a cage, and then started casually murdering your loved ones while calling it “mowing the lawn”, you would also be doing anything you could to make it stop.
Yes, Hamas knew this would happen, but for most people in Gaza, choosing to die hiding or choosing to die fighting is the only choice they get in life.
I agree with most of what you said but you're very much misunderstanding the point of resistance insurgencies if you think their aim is to "win" in the conventional sense, i.e. conquer and hold territory. Despite the propaganda, death and destruction, Hamas are fighting the IDF to a strategic standstill. Israel's stated aim is the complete destruction of Hamas and they are nowhere near achieving it, which alone will be win enough in Hamas' eyes and will strengthen them no doubt. One purported goal for Hamas was to inflict a situation so awful that there is no way the world could just return to normal after it, which I would argue will have happened by the time the dust blows over. They also aimed to stop Arab-Israeli diplomatic normalisation, which has been set back at least 20 years or so. Of the two belligerents, I would argue Hamas has actually been more successful in its aims.
So it's not sad and shouldn't be fought against?
it is sad. and a who city should not be levelled in response. that's just common sense.
which is obviously why there is a concerted and expensive campaign of you tube adverts to create a counter narrative to around 10,000 kids being bombed
and killed.
What's your alternative?
Do you really not see any other alternatives to what is happening?
sounds like a lack of empathy and imagination. both make talking to you redundant.
Fighting unlawful combatants is one of the hardest thing in war and has arguably never been solved completely.
So, yeah, there's not really lots of clear cut alternatives.
Fighting unlawful combatants is one of the hardest thing in war and has arguably never been solved completely.
So, yeah, there's not really lots of clear cut alternatives.
I'm open for suggestions. What's your suggestion?
Somehow, I get the impression that you aren't about to argue that what has happened to the Palestinians is sad and that they should be fighting against the people who did it to them.
Somehow I noticed that no one here is giving any real arguments and just keeps going for personal attacks. Makes you wonder.
Guess you'll have to take your wits all the way to the New York Times
I see ads in TV that are pro Isreal now with Santa crying because of Hamas kidnapped people. I know it's what about ism but not really moral high ground here when IDF literally wipes whole familes.
Its not what-about-ism.
Being accused of attacking civilians and saying the enemy is attacking civilians to divert attention is what-about-ism.
Crying that the enemy is attacking civilians while you are also attacking civilians is hypocrisy.
Calling out your own/allied government for attacking civilians and trying to hold them accountable even if the enemy attacks civilians as well is being a good person.
whataboutism is perfectly valid here
What Where are those ads Here we dont have anything similar and we would prolly wont even accept it
Israel is trying to justify more murder
They literally knew this was coming and attacked Israel anyway. They knew because the response was harsh and disproportionate last time and ten times prior to that. Blood is on both sides' hands. Hamas hiding behind civilians is not helping either.
I also understand their desire to fight oppression, but it's obvious they can't and will never be able to win war of any kind. Their fight must be done through different means.
Bomb Hamas until you can see China through the crater, I really don't care. But most people living in Gaza did not choose this and are just caught in the middle.
I imagine you would not be happy if your whole apartment building with your family inside was bombed because your neighbor assaulted an officer.
That's my point, although not as cleanly stated. To me this whole thing is Hamas kicking hornets nest then running away and hiding while civilians get stung. And this repeats every few years. And no point has anyone sat down and thought: wait maybe this is a bad idea.
Yeah, they are terrorists. They don't care about civilians. Big surprise.
The concerning thing is that Israel and US don't seem to care about them either.
They are political party of Gaza. That's why the recent ceasefire condition was for Hamas to leave Gaza
The thing with terrorism is the moment you show weakness they will keep exploiting that and repeating what works.
I get what you're saying. And might even agree with elements. But it is easy to say it's futile to fight when you aren't in a position to need to. Doing nothing in this case means resigning not just yourself to being under their oppression, and not even just your friends and family. It is resigning your entire culture to a slow painful death by attrition. They are losing more and more land, rights, and any hope of progress. Like... if someone is strangling you, do you fight back, or just resign yourself to it? And that's before we even get into the fact that those complying and not fighting are still being killed. Those not fighting and wanting to leave were lured to slaughter. Not fighting is an illusory choice.
If someone invaded your home, locked you in a cage, and then started casually murdering your loved ones while calling it “mowing the lawn”, you would also be doing anything you could to make it stop.
Yes, Hamas knew this would happen, but for most people in Gaza, choosing to die hiding or choosing to die fighting is the only choice they get in life.
I agree with most of what you said but you're very much misunderstanding the point of resistance insurgencies if you think their aim is to "win" in the conventional sense, i.e. conquer and hold territory. Despite the propaganda, death and destruction, Hamas are fighting the IDF to a strategic standstill. Israel's stated aim is the complete destruction of Hamas and they are nowhere near achieving it, which alone will be win enough in Hamas' eyes and will strengthen them no doubt. One purported goal for Hamas was to inflict a situation so awful that there is no way the world could just return to normal after it, which I would argue will have happened by the time the dust blows over. They also aimed to stop Arab-Israeli diplomatic normalisation, which has been set back at least 20 years or so. Of the two belligerents, I would argue Hamas has actually been more successful in its aims.
So it's not sad and shouldn't be fought against?
it is sad. and a who city should not be levelled in response. that's just common sense.
which is obviously why there is a concerted and expensive campaign of you tube adverts to create a counter narrative to around 10,000 kids being bombed and killed.
What's your alternative?
Do you really not see any other alternatives to what is happening?
sounds like a lack of empathy and imagination. both make talking to you redundant.
Fighting unlawful combatants is one of the hardest thing in war and has arguably never been solved completely.
So, yeah, there's not really lots of clear cut alternatives.
Fighting unlawful combatants is one of the hardest thing in war and has arguably never been solved completely.
So, yeah, there's not really lots of clear cut alternatives.
I'm open for suggestions. What's your suggestion?
Somehow, I get the impression that you aren't about to argue that what has happened to the Palestinians is sad and that they should be fighting against the people who did it to them.
Somehow I noticed that no one here is giving any real arguments and just keeps going for personal attacks. Makes you wonder.
Guess you'll have to take your wits all the way to the New York Times
And yet no actual argument given