Tbf you are supposed use the signal before turning wheel
Covered in the article. In Norway you are required to signal when exiting a roundabout. It's a fair concern.
Just in civilized countries, not only Norway.
Some countries don't have roundabouts
Civilized countries have roundabout
It's a significantly more efficient way for dealing with high-traffic in a cross-roads situation (though less safe than traffic signs) and pretty much a must if you get 5 or more roads converging and not enough to space to merge a few of those upstream.
However it takes some practice to be comfortable using them, plus they're most efficient when drivers reliably signal their intention to exit (because it allows people waiting to go in to know earlier that it's safe to do so).
Good signalling on roundabouts is basic driving skills you learn when getting your license, but for sure not everyone does it properly every time. In the Netherlands there's roundabouts that work around this by having physical lanes that dispatch the vehicles to the exits, so if you're trying to get in and see they're in that exit lane you can go in knowing there's no way they will stay on.
Well, I've lived in The Netherlands and I would say that the extra complexity of the bicycle path (which generally leads to a bicycle roundabout outside the car one) does push for having to help drivers a bit extra in the absence of traffic signs managing the thing (since anybody exiting the roundabout still has to give way to bicycles).
That said, even in my own native Portugal, were maybe 9 out of 10 of all drivers do not properly and reliably use the direction indicators (from personal experience I would say the quality of driving here is one of, if not THE, worst in Europe) roundabouts are all over the place, clearly help and don't seem to be any more accident prone than regular T and X junctions.
At least in Cities Skylines 1&2, where the player has a good overview of the behavior, they only work for low to medium amount of traffic. If you have one side sending in cars constantly, the others never get an opportunity to enter the roundabout, so there’s a traffic jam spanning through the whole city behind it.
Yeah, that's a good point.
If you are going hand-over-hand in a roundabout, you're doing something very wrong...
The point is that there will be no way to handle the turn signal through muscle memory. With a traditional control, it is always in the same place in relation to your body. It doesn’t move. When it’s in the steering wheel, it can be in many, many different places. If you have media controls on your steering wheel, try using them during a turn without taking your eyes off the road. Now pretend they are smooth and act like a touch input on a dual shock controller.
With a traditional control, it is always in the same place in relation to your body
As is the one on the wheel. Right next to your thumb.
Your thumb stays at the same place on the steering wheel when you’re not driving straight? O.o
Unless I'm making a very sharp turn (in which case my turn signal should already be on), yes, of course it does.
There are numerous times you would need to put your turn signal on when the steering wheel isn’t perfectly straight. A three point turn for instance. Exiting a roundabout in some places, a curved residential road. Just because you fail to think of scenarios it applies in, doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply.
There are numerous times you would need to put your turn signal on when the steering wheel isn’t perfectly straight
No one is talking about "when the steering wheel isn't perfectly straight". Come back when you want to have an honest conversation.
Pretty honest conversation here. If you’re doing any of the things I just listed, you’re improperly driving if your thumbs aren’t moving.
Me: "Unless I'm making a very sharp turn"
You: "When the steering wheel isn't perfectly straight".
There's nothing honest about that. You're intentionally misrepresenting my argument.
It’s cute how you’re hung up on my wording, and completely ignoring my three very real situations where your thumbs are very likely nowhere near their normal position.
Please tell me more about how I’m arguing dishonestly with what should have been obvious was a hyperbolic statement. 😉
Yes, that's it. You're not being dishonest, I'm just "hung up on the words you used." Because those are not important 🙄 Goodbye
That's not the issue, imagining driving through a roundabout that curves left and having to find a button somewhere on the steering wheel, which is at an angle, in order to indicate right before turning tight in order to exit the roundabout.
A stalk will always be in the same position. The same cannot be said for buttons.
imagining driving through a roundabout that curves left and having to find a button somewhere on the steering wheel
Your don't have to "find" anything, it's right next to your thumb
Drivers frequently change their hand placement as they turn the wheel. You lose precision and basic ability to manipulate the wheel if you don't.
If you are going hand-over-hand in a roundabout, you're doing something very wrong...
Quoting yourself won't magically make you right.
No one thinks it will.
So why do it?
Because it was obviously not read.
It was. You're just plain wrong so it was ignored.
Well if you're going to simply ignore what I said because it's "plain wrong" without any sort of explanation of why, then expect me to continue repeating myself. Don't expect me to come up with new explanations.
Again, it depends on the angle of the steering wheel. The buttons may be upside down if the car is turning sharply enough.
Again, it depends on the angle of the steering wheel.
Again, no it doesn't. The button should always be in the exact same position, relative to your thumb.
The buttons may be upside down if the car is turning sharply enough.
If you're turning that sharply, you're not going to need turn signals.
Do you stick your hands to the steering wheel with Krazy glue?
You can't be serious if you think people don't take sharp turns from time to time and have to indicate.
Do you stick your hands to the steering wheel with Krazy glue?
...huh?
You can't be serious if you think people don't take sharp turns from time to time and have to indicate.
You are bad at reading. Try again.
I'll do it your way...
...huh?
I was replying to this comment:
Again, no it doesn't. The button should always be in the exact same position, relative to your thumb.
Are you seriously telling me you never reposition your hands on the steering wheel?
You are bad at reading. Try again.
This is total nonsense:
If you're turning that sharply, you're not going to need turn signals.
Ever heard about U-turns? You need to signal while doing those too. That's just one example that disputes your position.
Are you seriously telling me you never reposition your hands on the steering wheel?
You're still bad at reading. That's not what I said. Try again.
Ever heard about U-turns? You need to signal while doing those too.
If you turn on your signal in the middle of a U-turn, you're a bad driver. That's not a problem with the car, that's a problem with you.
I'll write it down simply and then I'm done because getting through to you is seemingly impossible.
People sometimes need to turn on their indicators while not driving in a straight line. It happens, accept it.
People sometimes need to turn on their indicators while not driving in a straight line. It happens, accept it.
I accept it and agree with it. You can still do it while turning. It's not a problem.
I think you're right. People in this thread are forgetting that this steering yoke doesn't have anywhere to put your hands other than right next to the buttons
A driving instructor saying "I couldn't use this on my first go" isn't a fatal argument for the control
Sure a stick is probably superior, but I bet you could build muscle memory on a wheel that works like a race car's
But it's not a yoke, it's a steering wheel, which generally turn up to 1 and 1/2 times each way, which with a small radius roundabout (which is a lot of them in Norway) means you'll have to go hand over hand to turn sharply enough, thus not having your hands on the exact same spots through the turn and thus not able to press the right haptic feedback panel at that time.
In addition to roundabouts, there are plenty of freeway exists that loop around where you can be at an extreme turn and need to initiate a lane change. Or making a right turn into a gas station after a left turn at an intersection... lots of use cases.
Tbf you are supposed use the signal before turning wheel
Covered in the article. In Norway you are required to signal when exiting a roundabout. It's a fair concern.
Just in civilized countries, not only Norway.
Some countries don't have roundabouts
Civilized countries have roundabout
It's a significantly more efficient way for dealing with high-traffic in a cross-roads situation (though less safe than traffic signs) and pretty much a must if you get 5 or more roads converging and not enough to space to merge a few of those upstream.
However it takes some practice to be comfortable using them, plus they're most efficient when drivers reliably signal their intention to exit (because it allows people waiting to go in to know earlier that it's safe to do so).
Good signalling on roundabouts is basic driving skills you learn when getting your license, but for sure not everyone does it properly every time. In the Netherlands there's roundabouts that work around this by having physical lanes that dispatch the vehicles to the exits, so if you're trying to get in and see they're in that exit lane you can go in knowing there's no way they will stay on.
Well, I've lived in The Netherlands and I would say that the extra complexity of the bicycle path (which generally leads to a bicycle roundabout outside the car one) does push for having to help drivers a bit extra in the absence of traffic signs managing the thing (since anybody exiting the roundabout still has to give way to bicycles).
That said, even in my own native Portugal, were maybe 9 out of 10 of all drivers do not properly and reliably use the direction indicators (from personal experience I would say the quality of driving here is one of, if not THE, worst in Europe) roundabouts are all over the place, clearly help and don't seem to be any more accident prone than regular T and X junctions.
At least in Cities Skylines 1&2, where the player has a good overview of the behavior, they only work for low to medium amount of traffic. If you have one side sending in cars constantly, the others never get an opportunity to enter the roundabout, so there’s a traffic jam spanning through the whole city behind it.
Yeah, that's a good point.
If you are going hand-over-hand in a roundabout, you're doing something very wrong...
The point is that there will be no way to handle the turn signal through muscle memory. With a traditional control, it is always in the same place in relation to your body. It doesn’t move. When it’s in the steering wheel, it can be in many, many different places. If you have media controls on your steering wheel, try using them during a turn without taking your eyes off the road. Now pretend they are smooth and act like a touch input on a dual shock controller.
As is the one on the wheel. Right next to your thumb.
Your thumb stays at the same place on the steering wheel when you’re not driving straight? O.o
Unless I'm making a very sharp turn (in which case my turn signal should already be on), yes, of course it does.
There are numerous times you would need to put your turn signal on when the steering wheel isn’t perfectly straight. A three point turn for instance. Exiting a roundabout in some places, a curved residential road. Just because you fail to think of scenarios it applies in, doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply.
No one is talking about "when the steering wheel isn't perfectly straight". Come back when you want to have an honest conversation.
Pretty honest conversation here. If you’re doing any of the things I just listed, you’re improperly driving if your thumbs aren’t moving.
Me: "Unless I'm making a very sharp turn"
You: "When the steering wheel isn't perfectly straight".
There's nothing honest about that. You're intentionally misrepresenting my argument.
It’s cute how you’re hung up on my wording, and completely ignoring my three very real situations where your thumbs are very likely nowhere near their normal position.
Please tell me more about how I’m arguing dishonestly with what should have been obvious was a hyperbolic statement. 😉
Yes, that's it. You're not being dishonest, I'm just "hung up on the words you used." Because those are not important 🙄 Goodbye
That's not the issue, imagining driving through a roundabout that curves left and having to find a button somewhere on the steering wheel, which is at an angle, in order to indicate right before turning tight in order to exit the roundabout.
A stalk will always be in the same position. The same cannot be said for buttons.
Your don't have to "find" anything, it's right next to your thumb
Drivers frequently change their hand placement as they turn the wheel. You lose precision and basic ability to manipulate the wheel if you don't.
Quoting yourself won't magically make you right.
No one thinks it will.
So why do it?
Because it was obviously not read.
It was. You're just plain wrong so it was ignored.
Well if you're going to simply ignore what I said because it's "plain wrong" without any sort of explanation of why, then expect me to continue repeating myself. Don't expect me to come up with new explanations.
Again, it depends on the angle of the steering wheel. The buttons may be upside down if the car is turning sharply enough.
Again, no it doesn't. The button should always be in the exact same position, relative to your thumb.
If you're turning that sharply, you're not going to need turn signals.
Do you stick your hands to the steering wheel with Krazy glue?
You can't be serious if you think people don't take sharp turns from time to time and have to indicate.
...huh?
You are bad at reading. Try again.
I'll do it your way...
I was replying to this comment:
Are you seriously telling me you never reposition your hands on the steering wheel?
This is total nonsense:
Ever heard about U-turns? You need to signal while doing those too. That's just one example that disputes your position.
You're still bad at reading. That's not what I said. Try again.
If you turn on your signal in the middle of a U-turn, you're a bad driver. That's not a problem with the car, that's a problem with you.
I'll write it down simply and then I'm done because getting through to you is seemingly impossible.
People sometimes need to turn on their indicators while not driving in a straight line. It happens, accept it.
I accept it and agree with it. You can still do it while turning. It's not a problem.
I think you're right. People in this thread are forgetting that this steering yoke doesn't have anywhere to put your hands other than right next to the buttons
A driving instructor saying "I couldn't use this on my first go" isn't a fatal argument for the control
Sure a stick is probably superior, but I bet you could build muscle memory on a wheel that works like a race car's
But it's not a yoke, it's a steering wheel, which generally turn up to 1 and 1/2 times each way, which with a small radius roundabout (which is a lot of them in Norway) means you'll have to go hand over hand to turn sharply enough, thus not having your hands on the exact same spots through the turn and thus not able to press the right haptic feedback panel at that time.
See https://lemmy.ml/comment/7056795
In addition to roundabouts, there are plenty of freeway exists that loop around where you can be at an extreme turn and need to initiate a lane change. Or making a right turn into a gas station after a left turn at an intersection... lots of use cases.