There are other choices. We don't have to settle for Trump or Biden.
Come to me with your plan to convince 160 million people to vote 3rd party and then I'll take this seriously.
Better yet, they should come to us with the plan that's going to make ANY of the Democrats or Republicans work with a 3rd party president to allow them to get anything done. Even if some insane miracle occurred, and a 3rd party candidate got elected president, they would accomplish absolutely nothing, as it is not in the political interest of either Democrats or Republicans to work with them. In spite of what Trump would like people to believe, presidents are not dictators and can't just do whatever the hell they want. All of the people endlessly screaming about how there are more choices simply refuse to accept this fact.
Is your plan to vote based on how everyone else votes? Seems like a great way to reinforce a two party system.
what plan does anyone have to make one of these other choices viable? bonus points if it doesn't involve trying to overhaul both the electorate and the electoral system in 9 months.
I'm just voting 3rd party or write in and telling moderates they can either start compromising with leftists and progressives or lose to fascists a second time.
Moderates aren't losing much. They're not the type to care about leftists losing or rightists losing.
Plenty of moderates express serious concern about Trump winning.
As a member of one of the vulnerable groups targeted by those fascists I want to thank you for using my family's safety as a bargaining tool. We're happy to be sacrificed to your protest vote which will accomplish nothing.
The moderates are doing that. They elevated Trump intentionally because they thought it would make it easier to win elections. Where is your anger towards them?
i'm pissed as fuck but my anger is irrelevant, this is a matter of my survival and your privileged attempt to "punish" the moderates is putting me in immediate danger.
Have you put any energy into telling moderates they need to wake the fuck up? Did you tell anyone they were an asshole for voting for Biden in the 2020 primaries?
I worked for the sanders campaign in 2016 and 2020, I worked with a group called the restaurant opportunities center to help get paid sick days mandated in the city of pittsburgh and on an ongoing campaign to eliminate the tipped minimum wage in pennsylvania, I volunteer at a food bank and give people rides to the polls on election day. I don't owe you my credentials but there they are, out in the real world doing the real work to make things better for real people while you're throwing a tantrum online to punish the "moderates" because you're too cowardly to pick a fight with the people who have openly stated that they want to seize power so they can hurt you and me. "Did you tell anyone they were an asshole?" What the fuck sort of strategy for actually getting anything done is that. If being obnoxious, smug and morally superior was ever gonna work why hasn't it?
What the fuck sort of strategy for actually getting anything done is that. If being obnoxious, smug and morally superior was ever gonna work why hasn’t it?
You're in here calling me privileged and cowardly and telling me I'm throwing a tantrum when I say I'm voting 3rd party or write in. Clearly you think name calling and personal attacks work. So why aren't you trying it on moderates?
And for the record I phone banked, canvassed and donated in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries and general elections. I voted for Biden in the 2020 general. I won't be doing that again.
(This never actually happened but I think the idea holds)
It "feels good" but it doesn't work. The math isn't there. If you can't nominate a better candidate in a Democratic primary, with a significantly smaller and further-left voter base, you aren't even in the game for the general election. Do you want to feel good, or have an impact?
There are more than two parties -- math checks out
There is literally no other reasonable option than Biden, thanks to FPTP. Voting for Trump is voting for a fascist, every other "option" is throwing your vote away.
There is literally no other reasonable option than Biden
Biden is not a reasonable option. Biden is merely the least horrifically unreasonable. The Democratic Party's ambitions extend no further and never will.
They used to, and they can again. A party is not a person or even a group of people. Let that silly anthropomorphism go. A party is a tool, a lever of power. Don't like the people who control it? Great! Neither do I. Let's take it from them.
Ask Jessica Cisneros what happens when you try.
The party fights progressives and capitulates to Republicans.
The people who control the party fight progressives and capitulate to Republicans. Of course the people who control the party are going to fight us to keep control of it. It remains the only viable tool to win in general elections. Blaming "the party" is like being on a losing football team and blaming the ball.
The people who control the party fight progressives and capitulate to Republicans. Of course the people who control the party are going to fight us to keep control of it. It remains the only viable tool to win in general elections. Blaming “the party” is like being on a losing football team and blaming the ball.
"The party" is shorthand for those who control it.
Well, you sir are a free thinker. Claim your prize in the ruins of democracy.
Ahh, yes, isee. You're just as delusional as my mother.
Sounds like you're ok with Trump winning then.
That's what you're gonna get, unless you think the Republicans are going to infight like this (non-spoiler-because-duh, they aren't)
My plan is to pick a check box without the name Biden or Trump, or maybe write someone in. Being institutionalized into thinking a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump is a pathway to madness
But that's how FPTP works. Any one less vote for Biden is by default an extra vote for Trump. Unless of course, you're not an immigrant, woman, transgender, gay, or any other minority. Then of course, Trump being in office means nothing to you so you do you. The rest of us have to suffer the consequences of having the country's judicial, legislative, and executive branches stacked with Christian cripto-fascists hell bent on sending us back to the middle ages. Sorry the Revolution isn't radical enough with Biden I guess.
This might be an instance where a good portion of the country might actually agree that the two major party candidates are jackasses. I remain hopeful.
There are other choices. We don't have to settle for Trump or Biden.
Come to me with your plan to convince 160 million people to vote 3rd party and then I'll take this seriously.
Better yet, they should come to us with the plan that's going to make ANY of the Democrats or Republicans work with a 3rd party president to allow them to get anything done. Even if some insane miracle occurred, and a 3rd party candidate got elected president, they would accomplish absolutely nothing, as it is not in the political interest of either Democrats or Republicans to work with them. In spite of what Trump would like people to believe, presidents are not dictators and can't just do whatever the hell they want. All of the people endlessly screaming about how there are more choices simply refuse to accept this fact.
Is your plan to vote based on how everyone else votes? Seems like a great way to reinforce a two party system.
what plan does anyone have to make one of these other choices viable? bonus points if it doesn't involve trying to overhaul both the electorate and the electoral system in 9 months.
I'm just voting 3rd party or write in and telling moderates they can either start compromising with leftists and progressives or lose to fascists a second time.
Moderates aren't losing much. They're not the type to care about leftists losing or rightists losing.
Plenty of moderates express serious concern about Trump winning.
As a member of one of the vulnerable groups targeted by those fascists I want to thank you for using my family's safety as a bargaining tool. We're happy to be sacrificed to your protest vote which will accomplish nothing.
The moderates are doing that. They elevated Trump intentionally because they thought it would make it easier to win elections. Where is your anger towards them?
i'm pissed as fuck but my anger is irrelevant, this is a matter of my survival and your privileged attempt to "punish" the moderates is putting me in immediate danger.
Have you put any energy into telling moderates they need to wake the fuck up? Did you tell anyone they were an asshole for voting for Biden in the 2020 primaries?
I worked for the sanders campaign in 2016 and 2020, I worked with a group called the restaurant opportunities center to help get paid sick days mandated in the city of pittsburgh and on an ongoing campaign to eliminate the tipped minimum wage in pennsylvania, I volunteer at a food bank and give people rides to the polls on election day. I don't owe you my credentials but there they are, out in the real world doing the real work to make things better for real people while you're throwing a tantrum online to punish the "moderates" because you're too cowardly to pick a fight with the people who have openly stated that they want to seize power so they can hurt you and me. "Did you tell anyone they were an asshole?" What the fuck sort of strategy for actually getting anything done is that. If being obnoxious, smug and morally superior was ever gonna work why hasn't it?
You're in here calling me privileged and cowardly and telling me I'm throwing a tantrum when I say I'm voting 3rd party or write in. Clearly you think name calling and personal attacks work. So why aren't you trying it on moderates?
And for the record I phone banked, canvassed and donated in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries and general elections. I voted for Biden in the 2020 general. I won't be doing that again.
We kinda do though. Sure you can vote for someone else if you want, but we are going to end up with either Trump or Biden.
That's what they'd like you to think. If everyone moved a few check boxes down on the ballot, we'd have anyone else. Break free! It feels good 😊
https://intersol.ca/news/organizational-culture-and-the-5-monkeys-experiment/
(This never actually happened but I think the idea holds)
It "feels good" but it doesn't work. The math isn't there. If you can't nominate a better candidate in a Democratic primary, with a significantly smaller and further-left voter base, you aren't even in the game for the general election. Do you want to feel good, or have an impact?
There are more than two parties -- math checks out
There is literally no other reasonable option than Biden, thanks to FPTP. Voting for Trump is voting for a fascist, every other "option" is throwing your vote away.
Biden is not a reasonable option. Biden is merely the least horrifically unreasonable. The Democratic Party's ambitions extend no further and never will.
They used to, and they can again. A party is not a person or even a group of people. Let that silly anthropomorphism go. A party is a tool, a lever of power. Don't like the people who control it? Great! Neither do I. Let's take it from them.
Ask Jessica Cisneros what happens when you try.
The party fights progressives and capitulates to Republicans.
The people who control the party fight progressives and capitulate to Republicans. Of course the people who control the party are going to fight us to keep control of it. It remains the only viable tool to win in general elections. Blaming "the party" is like being on a losing football team and blaming the ball.
"The party" is shorthand for those who control it.
Well, you sir are a free thinker. Claim your prize in the ruins of democracy.
Ahh, yes, isee. You're just as delusional as my mother.
Sounds like you're ok with Trump winning then.
That's what you're gonna get, unless you think the Republicans are going to infight like this (non-spoiler-because-duh, they aren't)
My plan is to pick a check box without the name Biden or Trump, or maybe write someone in. Being institutionalized into thinking a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump is a pathway to madness
But that's how FPTP works. Any one less vote for Biden is by default an extra vote for Trump. Unless of course, you're not an immigrant, woman, transgender, gay, or any other minority. Then of course, Trump being in office means nothing to you so you do you. The rest of us have to suffer the consequences of having the country's judicial, legislative, and executive branches stacked with Christian cripto-fascists hell bent on sending us back to the middle ages. Sorry the Revolution isn't radical enough with Biden I guess.
This might be an instance where a good portion of the country might actually agree that the two major party candidates are jackasses. I remain hopeful.