Roku’s Ultimatum: Surrender Jury Trial Rights or Lose Access to Your TVs

caleb@programming.dev to Technology@lemmy.world – 1495 points –

Did your Roku TV decide to strong arm you into giving up your rights or lose your FULLY FUNCTIONING WORKING TV? Because mine did.

It doesn't matter if you only use it as a dumb panel for an Apple TV, Fire stick, or just to play your gaming console. You either agree or get bent.

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Did you read it? That first paragraph’s last sentence refers you to the section which tells you how to opt out.

L. 30-Day Right to Opt Out. You have the right to opt out of arbitration by sending written notice of your decision to opt out to the following address by mail: General Counsel, Roku Inc., 1701 Junction Court, Suite 100, San Jose, CA 95112 within 30 days of you first becoming subject to these Dispute Resolution Terms. Such notice must include the name of each person opting out and contact information for each such person, the specific product models, software, or services used that are at issue, the email address that you used to set up your Roku account (if you have one), and, if applicable, a copy of your purchase receipt. For clarity, opt-out notices submitted via any method other than mail (including email) will not be effective. If you send timely written notice containing the required information in accordance with this Section 1(L), then neither party will be required to arbitrate the Claims between them.

It would be hilarious if a lot of people did this. And requested confirmation of receipt, and kept stalking them for these confirmations.

Maybe the letter should be on a0, and a separate one for each member of the household.

I've requested confirmation and have only gotten it once or twice.

What I've started doing is actually just sending them their same exact terms via their corporate registered address (regardless of their instructions) with the arbitration clause and jury trial waiver and just about anything I don't agree to removed. I tell them so long as they continue to provide the services to me, that they implicitly agree to the terms I'm sending them, with any further updates requiring them to send a registered (not certified) letter.

I intentionally do not provide any way for them to identify my account except for the return address.

I figured if I ever had to go to court, one of these things would happen:

  • judge finds that the original terms are enforceable, which means I'm no worse off
  • judge finds that my amended terms are enforceable, which means it worked
  • judge finds both terms unenforceable and I can continue to sue them

So far, no company has ever written me back or turned off my access to the site.

I suggest everyone do this because these forced arbitration clauses are very anti-consumer and we need to start clawing back our rights.

I'm definitely doing it. Worth the cost of a stamp.

I don't even have a Roku TV just an Ultra hooked up to a monitor so not a lot to lose but it's the principal of the thing.

Any reasonable judge will look at this clause and come to the conclusion that Roku is not acting in good faith. It's so blatantly scummy to have a user have to mail in an opt out request on a consumable's EULA update that the consumer never asked for long after the initial purchase.

It’s enraging because information like the account email and TV model are sitting there available to the Roku OS. These could easily be appended to an email at the touch of a button, or transmitted to Roku Legal in an even more efficient programmatic way.

But noooooo, they need to force you to write the shit down with a pen because they know you won’t bother. Next time they want to sell you something, though? That’ll be one click.

I’d love to see a judge throw the book at some company for this kind of horseshit. Last time I refinanced my house I saw the page about opting out of marketing somewhere in the cloud of papers I signed, and meant to go back to it. I did, but it had such a complex table of options that I said to myself “I need to look at this with my glasses.” And then of course I forgot to do that and of course they sold my information everywhere. This is my own credit union that I’ve been with for 12 years, too.

That's an overly complicated procedure to opt out.

You gotta opt in, then send a fucking letter with a bazillion nitty gritty information.

First of all, shit like this should be made an example of, and it should as easy to opt out than to opt in. Otherwise, it is predatory

What an absurd burden to put on someone. If I can opt in electronically, I should be able to opt out electronically.

Which is the law in countries with consumer protections.

In my pro consumer country there is an amazing law that states that any contract cancellation procedure cannot be more difficult than the contract sign-up procedure. This means it can’t be through different channels or have more steps.

I know what I'm doing tonight. Once I have the letter with all the details in alignment I'll post an update here to help others.