I guess it worked out for Biden tho, it most have been super awkward for the "Senate whisperer" to keep telling people he couldn't get a Dem congress to support the Dem platform after literally running his 2020 campaign on how only he could get republicans to vote for the Dem platform.
If he had any shame he'd probably have been really embarrassed about that.
Ahh yes, I forgot that Biden was the only person that determined who got elected to the a completely separate branch of government.
You can just say that you're a republican or a foreign agent and that you don't like Biden. You would sound more believable.
Not to mention Biden actually got a ton of stuff done. The shills tend to move the goalposts seamlessly from "he did only terrible things and all on purpose" to "well okay he tried to do tons of good stuff but the Republicans blocked him and that's his fault" to "well okay never mind your 10 good things he got done what about this 1 bad thing" to "the 1 bad thing definitely was the worst thing in the world and I refuse to listen to your qualifications to it" to silence or insults, as the conversation progresses. This "did nothing on purpose" is just the first stage from the first account in the conversation.
It's a weird little quirk of human psychology that if someone's not paying all that much attention, that kind of kettle logic actually works quite well to produce the engineered result. It hits the "Biden bad" button from multiple angles and the "System 1" part doesn't really notice that the different falsehoods contradict each other. It just knows they come from multiple sources and angles.
Yes, I completely agree.
I haven't seen that book before, is it good? Worth reading?
Boy howdy, yes it is, absolutely
100% worth the read.
Daniel Kahneman, who wrote thinking fast and slow, died today, 3/27/24.
Saying negative things about Biden doesn't make someone a secret Republican or a foreign agent. That statement is fucking ridiculous. He's not a very good candidate. The fact that his opponent is one of the worst candidates I can imagine doesn't change that.
Biden is a great candidate. He's done a amazing job help the American public, probably 2nd only to Obama in recent history. Right wing and foreign propaganda has unfortunately been very successful at making people believe that he hasn't done anything. Making that statement jokingly is not ridiculous.
Dismissing criticism as propaganda is what propagandists do. I won't disagree if you say Biden is better than Trump but I will absolutely not accept that he's the best candidate we can come up with. Even your comparison to Obama illustrates how low we've set the bar. Obama was not a great president unless you mean only by comparison to his recent peers. He was better than the others we've had in the last 40 years but that statement says more about the last 40 years than it does Obama. His biggest accomplishment was ensuring our shitty healthcare system stays in place for at least another generation. He and Biden aren't fascist pieces of shit like all Republicans these days but I think we should be aiming quite a bit higher than that, don't you?
Obama was not a great president unless you mean only by comparison to his recent peers.
With what the fuck else do you want to compare him (or anything really) if not with recent peers?
How about other governments in the world, since the US isn’t the only country in the world (I know we gotta remind you guys sometimes.)
Or even other governments the US has had in the past that wouldn’t be considered recent?
Why are we comparing apples to apples? How about we compare apples to oranges, since apples aren't the only fruit (I know we gotta remind you guys sometimes.)
Is that really a difficult question for you to answer yourself? Compare him to great presidents of the past, contemporary world leaders from other countries, potential current candidates, etc. Why would you limit your comparisons to like 8 people when there are plenty more to choose from? That's unnecessarily restrictive thinking.
I agree with most of that comment.
I also think it is important that we distinguish idealistic goals and candidates from pragmatic goals and candidates.
Yes, I and many others would prefer the more progressive candidates and if I had my ideal scenario, I would be able to vote for a better candidate than Biden.
Technically I do have that option, but practically I don't. If I evaluate my practical choices, which is what is done in all elections by most voters, then Biden is a great choice for president.
Having to choose the best practical option is what probably always happened in all elections ever. Unfortunately, it is exceedingly rare to have the option between the two best candidates of their age. Maybe the voters for the 2nd and 3rd president had this choice, but probably not.
Obama's biggest achievement was getting a worse version of Healthcare that the 2012 Republican candidate implemented as a governor.
Biden is saying he hopes the Midterms repeat...
We lost the House in those midterms...
Because republicans gained enough seats.
So what about that bodes well for 2024?
Do you think Biden just sort of forgot what happened?
The party holding the Presidency usually loses big time to the opposition in midterm elections. The GOP was crowing about a "red wave", sure that history would predictably repeat.
Historically speaking, the GOP got their ass handed to them. Most everyone was shocked with the slim victory in the House, and the GOP lost the Senate. (Tied 50-50 with a Democratic VP as the tie breaker.)
Below is a non-partisan breakdown. Suffice to say, Republicans can't continue to "win" like this.
When the president doesn't keep campaign promises, it depresses turnout for their party.
That is true.
But we could always just try running a candidate that will put the work in, even if they don't succeed.
The 73rd to 79th congress had full Dem majorities.
When moderates and republicans United to kick out FDR, republicans swept it all.
And I'm sorry to have to go back to when Biden was a toddler, but it's been a minute since we had a president who wanted and legit tried to help Americans.
Unfortunately Republicans and moderate Dems united to stop that and move the country to the right.
Obama left office in 2016, he was one of the most beneficial presidents since JFK or Carter. The next most beneficial president is currently in office. Neither of them are perfect, none of them have been. But the last 2 democratic presidents have been amazing.
If you truly believe that Biden has done nothing, then you've either been duped by propaganda or you just play a Democrat online.
You kind of just made my point...
All of those future presidents are/were more conservative than FDR. Despite being elected generations later. Like, even Obama's campaign healthcare plan was more conservative than FDRs. Their goal for tax rates were way lower, their minimum wage was lower after inflation
Seriously, take you pick of them and make a single economic issue you think they're more progressive than FDR on. I'll take the time to get you some links.
you just play a Democrat online.
Honestly at this point I don't think I'd say I am a Dem anymore. There's some good Dems in office, they just have to constantly fight their own party in addition to republicans.
I like progressive more, the two private parties are not something our government needs. They're just clubs that we never get to the VIP. We just pay for their tabs.
Like, even Obama's campaign healthcare plan was more conservative than FDRs. Their goal for tax rates were way lower, their minimum wage was lower after inflation
Seriously, take you pick of them and make a single economic issue you think they're more progressive than FDR on.
Out of quite a long time that I've spent arguing with the shills, this is the first time that I've had a strong suspicion that any specific shill was specifically not from the US.
Accusing a politician of being less progressive than literally the single most progressive president in US history, as some kind of gotcha, is such a weird nonsensical flex that it seems like it might come from a position of not actually having a native understanding of US history. Evaluating FDR with this anachronistic modern-day political analysis, is such a weird confusion of ideas that I have trouble seeing an American doing it whether they are liberal or conservative. E.g. I have literally never heard from any other person who thinks that moderates and Republicans "kicked out" FDR, or talks about FDR's "healthcare plan."
I have trouble seeing an American doing it whether they are liberal or conservative
ah, the two genders
even Obama's campaign healthcare plan was more conservative than FDRs.
LOL, you mean the healthcare plan that FDR never passed?
single economic issue you think they're more progressive than FDR on.
LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act and Obama signed the Lily Ledbetter Act. What did FDR do to ensure equal pay for women?
You really have to look at the specific seats that had no incumbents and or were redistricted in favor of a particular party. Of those seats, the GOP had some pretty big advantages that they absolutely blew in a number of districts.
The GOP had known safe voter blocks, with a well documented voting history, and they shot themselves in the foot by nominating people that were downright wacky.
He said that MAGA aligned republicans didn't do well in the midterms, not that Republicans didn't do well in the midterms.
Historically, the house flips to the opposite party of the president in a midterm election, which it did in 2022, but not as strongly as it typically does. Additionally, candidates that fell in line with trump didn't do as well as predicted.
Historically
Same thing I just told the other account:
When the president doesn’t keep campaign promises, it depresses turnout for their party.
That is true.
But we could always just try running a candidate that will put the work in, even if they don’t succeed.
The 73rd to 79th congress had full Dem majorities.
When moderates and republicans United to kick out FDR, republicans swept it all.
And I’m sorry to have to go back to when Biden was a toddler, but it’s been a minute since we had a president who wanted and legit tried to help Americans.
Unfortunately Republicans and moderate Dems united to stop that and move the country to the right.
There's better strategies to beat Republicans than running the lesser of two evils, in fact, that's the hardest way to beat Republicans. The easiest is a popular candidate.
Where we lost he house and gained the senate with a democratic President. History shows that the party in power usually continues to lose seats and instead we gained in the senate and only lost some in the house.
gained
Maintained...
Biden had a Dem House and Dem Senate for two years
No, before it was a tie breaker to Democrats and with machin and Collins being being conservative D's an extra seat is extremely helpful
Parties always lose at least one arm of congress in a midterm. The fact it was so close was actually odd.
Parties always lose at least one arm of congress in a midterm.
That's recent.
Progressive presidents don't, it's just been a long time since we were allowed one.
When the president doesn’t keep campaign promises, it depresses turnout for their party.
That is true.
But we could always just try running a candidate that will put the work in, even if they don’t succeed.
The 73rd to 79th congress had full Dem majorities.
When moderates and republicans United to kick out FDR, republicans swept it all.
And I’m sorry to have to go back to when Biden was a toddler, but it’s been a minute since we had a president who wanted and legit tried to help Americans.
Unfortunately Republicans and moderate Dems united to stop that and move the country to the right.
What are you talking about? Obama lost a branch of congress in 2010. Are you just making shit up to dunk on Biden?
What are you talking about? We haven't had a progressive president since FDR.
Ohh I see you've moving the goalpost to the term progressive! Well those haven't existed in my lifetime so have fun with that point I guess.
The midterms where we lost the House?
I guess it worked out for Biden tho, it most have been super awkward for the "Senate whisperer" to keep telling people he couldn't get a Dem congress to support the Dem platform after literally running his 2020 campaign on how only he could get republicans to vote for the Dem platform.
If he had any shame he'd probably have been really embarrassed about that.
Ahh yes, I forgot that Biden was the only person that determined who got elected to the a completely separate branch of government.
You can just say that you're a republican or a foreign agent and that you don't like Biden. You would sound more believable.
Not to mention Biden actually got a ton of stuff done. The shills tend to move the goalposts seamlessly from "he did only terrible things and all on purpose" to "well okay he tried to do tons of good stuff but the Republicans blocked him and that's his fault" to "well okay never mind your 10 good things he got done what about this 1 bad thing" to "the 1 bad thing definitely was the worst thing in the world and I refuse to listen to your qualifications to it" to silence or insults, as the conversation progresses. This "did nothing on purpose" is just the first stage from the first account in the conversation.
It's a weird little quirk of human psychology that if someone's not paying all that much attention, that kind of kettle logic actually works quite well to produce the engineered result. It hits the "Biden bad" button from multiple angles and the "System 1" part doesn't really notice that the different falsehoods contradict each other. It just knows they come from multiple sources and angles.
Yes, I completely agree.
I haven't seen that book before, is it good? Worth reading?
Boy howdy, yes it is, absolutely
100% worth the read.
Daniel Kahneman, who wrote thinking fast and slow, died today, 3/27/24.
Saying negative things about Biden doesn't make someone a secret Republican or a foreign agent. That statement is fucking ridiculous. He's not a very good candidate. The fact that his opponent is one of the worst candidates I can imagine doesn't change that.
Biden is a great candidate. He's done a amazing job help the American public, probably 2nd only to Obama in recent history. Right wing and foreign propaganda has unfortunately been very successful at making people believe that he hasn't done anything. Making that statement jokingly is not ridiculous.
Dismissing criticism as propaganda is what propagandists do. I won't disagree if you say Biden is better than Trump but I will absolutely not accept that he's the best candidate we can come up with. Even your comparison to Obama illustrates how low we've set the bar. Obama was not a great president unless you mean only by comparison to his recent peers. He was better than the others we've had in the last 40 years but that statement says more about the last 40 years than it does Obama. His biggest accomplishment was ensuring our shitty healthcare system stays in place for at least another generation. He and Biden aren't fascist pieces of shit like all Republicans these days but I think we should be aiming quite a bit higher than that, don't you?
With what the fuck else do you want to compare him (or anything really) if not with recent peers?
How about other governments in the world, since the US isn’t the only country in the world (I know we gotta remind you guys sometimes.)
Or even other governments the US has had in the past that wouldn’t be considered recent?
Why are we comparing apples to apples? How about we compare apples to oranges, since apples aren't the only fruit (I know we gotta remind you guys sometimes.)
Is that really a difficult question for you to answer yourself? Compare him to great presidents of the past, contemporary world leaders from other countries, potential current candidates, etc. Why would you limit your comparisons to like 8 people when there are plenty more to choose from? That's unnecessarily restrictive thinking.
I agree with most of that comment.
I also think it is important that we distinguish idealistic goals and candidates from pragmatic goals and candidates.
Yes, I and many others would prefer the more progressive candidates and if I had my ideal scenario, I would be able to vote for a better candidate than Biden.
Technically I do have that option, but practically I don't. If I evaluate my practical choices, which is what is done in all elections by most voters, then Biden is a great choice for president.
Having to choose the best practical option is what probably always happened in all elections ever. Unfortunately, it is exceedingly rare to have the option between the two best candidates of their age. Maybe the voters for the 2nd and 3rd president had this choice, but probably not.
Obama's biggest achievement was getting a worse version of Healthcare that the 2012 Republican candidate implemented as a governor.
Biden is saying he hopes the Midterms repeat...
We lost the House in those midterms...
Because republicans gained enough seats.
So what about that bodes well for 2024?
Do you think Biden just sort of forgot what happened?
The party holding the Presidency usually loses big time to the opposition in midterm elections. The GOP was crowing about a "red wave", sure that history would predictably repeat.
Historically speaking, the GOP got their ass handed to them. Most everyone was shocked with the slim victory in the House, and the GOP lost the Senate. (Tied 50-50 with a Democratic VP as the tie breaker.)
Below is a non-partisan breakdown. Suffice to say, Republicans can't continue to "win" like this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_elections
When the president doesn't keep campaign promises, it depresses turnout for their party.
That is true.
But we could always just try running a candidate that will put the work in, even if they don't succeed.
The 73rd to 79th congress had full Dem majorities.
When moderates and republicans United to kick out FDR, republicans swept it all.
And I'm sorry to have to go back to when Biden was a toddler, but it's been a minute since we had a president who wanted and legit tried to help Americans.
Unfortunately Republicans and moderate Dems united to stop that and move the country to the right.
Obama left office in 2016, he was one of the most beneficial presidents since JFK or Carter. The next most beneficial president is currently in office. Neither of them are perfect, none of them have been. But the last 2 democratic presidents have been amazing.
If you truly believe that Biden has done nothing, then you've either been duped by propaganda or you just play a Democrat online.
You kind of just made my point...
All of those future presidents are/were more conservative than FDR. Despite being elected generations later. Like, even Obama's campaign healthcare plan was more conservative than FDRs. Their goal for tax rates were way lower, their minimum wage was lower after inflation
Seriously, take you pick of them and make a single economic issue you think they're more progressive than FDR on. I'll take the time to get you some links.
Honestly at this point I don't think I'd say I am a Dem anymore. There's some good Dems in office, they just have to constantly fight their own party in addition to republicans.
I like progressive more, the two private parties are not something our government needs. They're just clubs that we never get to the VIP. We just pay for their tabs.
Out of quite a long time that I've spent arguing with the shills, this is the first time that I've had a strong suspicion that any specific shill was specifically not from the US.
Accusing a politician of being less progressive than literally the single most progressive president in US history, as some kind of gotcha, is such a weird nonsensical flex that it seems like it might come from a position of not actually having a native understanding of US history. Evaluating FDR with this anachronistic modern-day political analysis, is such a weird confusion of ideas that I have trouble seeing an American doing it whether they are liberal or conservative. E.g. I have literally never heard from any other person who thinks that moderates and Republicans "kicked out" FDR, or talks about FDR's "healthcare plan."
ah, the two genders
LOL, you mean the healthcare plan that FDR never passed?
LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act and Obama signed the Lily Ledbetter Act. What did FDR do to ensure equal pay for women?
You really have to look at the specific seats that had no incumbents and or were redistricted in favor of a particular party. Of those seats, the GOP had some pretty big advantages that they absolutely blew in a number of districts.
The GOP had known safe voter blocks, with a well documented voting history, and they shot themselves in the foot by nominating people that were downright wacky.
He said that MAGA aligned republicans didn't do well in the midterms, not that Republicans didn't do well in the midterms.
Historically, the house flips to the opposite party of the president in a midterm election, which it did in 2022, but not as strongly as it typically does. Additionally, candidates that fell in line with trump didn't do as well as predicted.
Same thing I just told the other account:
There's better strategies to beat Republicans than running the lesser of two evils, in fact, that's the hardest way to beat Republicans. The easiest is a popular candidate.
Where we lost he house and gained the senate with a democratic President. History shows that the party in power usually continues to lose seats and instead we gained in the senate and only lost some in the house.
Maintained...
Biden had a Dem House and Dem Senate for two years
No, before it was a tie breaker to Democrats and with machin and Collins being being conservative D's an extra seat is extremely helpful
Parties always lose at least one arm of congress in a midterm. The fact it was so close was actually odd.
That's recent.
Progressive presidents don't, it's just been a long time since we were allowed one.
What are you talking about? Obama lost a branch of congress in 2010. Are you just making shit up to dunk on Biden?
What are you talking about? We haven't had a progressive president since FDR.
Ohh I see you've moving the goalpost to the term progressive! Well those haven't existed in my lifetime so have fun with that point I guess.
Who said he didn't?
He ran as a progressive in 08, and the party paired Joe Biden to show people he wasn't that progressive.
And when he got in office, he wasn't that progressive.
So he lost in the midterm.
This isn't ancient history...
When did moderates and republicans unite to kick out FDR...?
When they created the two term limit because no one could beat him
That didn't kick him out, that was after he died. Death is what kicked him out.