At some point, we're going to have to make an actual left wing party. Because the only thing the national DNC cares about is money
They don't even know how to spend it effectively when they get it.
Socialist Party of America, Socialist Alternative, The Communist Party of the USA, and plenty others have been trying to run left of the Democratic Party for a century, it won't work in a FPTP voting system, converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
If you want a left wing party other than the Dems, you're gonna have to change FPTP first.
Or or, and hear me out here. We could do what has happened many different times throughout history. And take over/replace the structure of a party. The Democrats already ignore state and local elections across several red states. What if we lefties/socialist/etc instead of trying to prop up separate parties and separate candidates that always fail. Fielded our own candidates who more closely match our own ideals. And run them as Democrats in these areas. Focusing on funding them ourselves as well as whatever money the DNC apparatus might provide. We might actually start winning. And if we start winning we might actually be able to replace those in the DNC. And if we replace those in the DNC. Things might actually get better.
Isn't that what they said?
converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier
Yeah it was, but they added more context on how it was possible, so I wouldn't really say it was redundant.
This is what the DSA has been trying to do and succeeding in for 30 years with candidates like AOC
Succeeding? They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success? Lol, sounds like something a right wing Democrat would say, because that’s a very convenient result for the party itself. You’re either blindly loyal to this party or you must think we’re stupid.
They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success?
Almost all of which were elected in the past decade, that's rather quick for a political change as large as that. And more are being elected every year.
The DSA literally helped Bernie almost win the presidential primary, that wouldn't of even come close to happening if the average Democrat was some right wing anti-socialist hawk.
They propped up a Zionist who is now campaigning for Genocide Joe
When the military is deployed to crush protestors and trans people have their existence banned by Trump I'll know who to thank.
Kinda weird yall insist on calling him Genocide Joe.
I don't care what nonsense falls out of his demented mouth as long as he is sending bombs to an ongoing genocide
Do you really and honestly believe that Joe Biden Is so evil that he's been sitting there relishing in the deaths of civilians for months?
And you do realize that sending weapons is not the sole discretion of the president? About 75% if congress keeps voting to send those weapons.
I could care less what he feels as he snuffs out the lives of children in Gaza.
Last Monday, the U.S. State Department deemed Israel in compliance with President Biden’s landmark national security memorandum issued in February. That memorandum required that recipients of U.S. weapons must demonstrate compliance with international law, and that they not interfere with or block the delivery of humanitarian aid.
Yes, it's absolutely in his discretion, and the lies his State Department are telling to continue doing so are outrageous and absurd.
Everyone has purity tests, everyone has red lines. None are more reasonable than genocide.
She said it was a humanitarian catastrophe from day one of the invasion and called for an immediate ceasefire soon after. Just because she didn't use the exact word you want, a hugely legally binding and implicating one too mind you, you're willing to write her off?
You do realize that if that is your standard then literally no member of congress or in the executive is good enough for you, right?
Not to mention that it'd be hugely irresponsible for any government official to make a comment like that before the ICC ruling is actually finished.
You think it's irresponsible to call this a genocide before the ICC comes to a verdict in 20 years?
The Communist Party is a fed honeypot
Lmfao, yeah how long has that been the case? Since they realized I was right and switched to endorsing leftist dems and protesting?
converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
They're a private organization...
They'll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
The only thing the DNC has that a different private party wouldn't is momentum.
If they just gonna keep following the rnc, we have no choice but acknowledging we were abandoned long ago already
The DNC is a national political party organization. Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up. It's actually a pretty well created organizational system, the only people who really bitch about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it or the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.
The DNC is a national political party organization
Nope, it's a private for-profit corporation masquerading as a political party.
That's how they're legally registered and that's how they were able to argue in court that they can rig the primaries or even just directly appointment nominees if they want to
Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up
How adorably naive you are! 🥹
Biden and the rest of the leadership are part of a clique who took over the party in 1992 and never let go. Maybe some of the names and faces change, but the governing and campaign philosophies haven't changed since then and won't no matter how much the people they're supposed to represent do.
It's actually a pretty well created organizational system well-orchestrated political and financial machine
Fixed it for you
the only people who really bitch about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it people who understand how it ACTUALLY works and would prefer a more open, honest and representative party
the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.
Yeah, because the Democratic Party operates based on pure consensus of the voters and never act against the will of the people for profit or to maintain the status quo.. 🙄
Are you being paid or are you gaslighting for free?
Reorganized from the ground up... to be exactly the same. They're not left.
Pelosi doesn't pick who can enter or who wins a primary, none of the Democratic leadership does. That's the donor class at best, but even they can get steamrolled over as the left should've learned with AOC and Crowley.
It’s so pathetic how you all try to convince us that the Dems are a fairly run grassroots organization when we all know that’s complete bullshit. The second there’s a real threat to the party leadership they can and will change the rules with zero options for recourse through the courts. They’ve done it multiple times before and they will do it again.
At this point I have to assume you have malicious intent towards leftist voters because this is just blatant gaslighting.
The Democratic Party and the DNC and all the affiliates are nothing more than tools for whatever vaguely left of american center interest group wants to use them.
There's no massive conspiracy to keep the Democrats Neoliberal, and if there is anything even similar to that, it's happening behind closed doors in Wall Street, not Washington.
They'll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
How long have you been involved in politics? I dont mean for that to sound demeaning. We've gone from Neoliberal democrats and Clinton gutting social welfare in the 90s to Socialists being integrated into the broader coalition, both parties have changed and will continue to change immensely over time. Ignoring that because you're upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016 and 2020 and disconnecting completely from the party is just a ticket to irrelevance, and I say that as someone who worked on some of Bernie's first barnstorm events and both presidential campaigns.
It's funny the way this thread went. I don't think people paid attention to how much the Democratic party changed after 2016 after the Bernie peeps found out about how the party is actually structured. But there ended up being 3 types of new grassroots activists.
The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn't some authoritarian regime who instead pulled up their seat at the table and effected change.
The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn't some authoritarian regime and who wouldn't compromise with anyone and quickly became irrelevant but still cried that the system was still rigged (while their compatriots looked on in disgust lamenting the extra power to affect change they would have if they would vote as a block).
Those who got in and then tried to pull the ladder up to prevent themselves from losing their position the same way they accused others of doing.
Completely agree, I really don't know why these people think the DNC is some massive evil force trying to crush the grassroots leftie activism.
I'm pasting this from one of my earlier comments, but I feel like it's incredibly relevant.
If you don't like the policies of the moderate Democrats then volunteer for your local party, most of the people running your county party are old as fuck, that's one of the main problems with the Dems. Vote in every single primary for the most progressive option. Donate to and volunteer for your progressive state representatives/senators. Help your coworkers organize a union and increase your lobbying power. Join a progressive/socialist election work group like Progressive Victory or any of the countless others. If you aren't doing at least one of these regularly, then you have no right to complain that the party isn't listening to you. You've given them no reason to.
I deeply feel that none of the people in this thread commenting about the malevolent DNC have done these, and kept doing them since the Bernie campaigns.
I love how democrats just throw out the word “conspiracy” whenever they’re trying to make rational ideas sound crazy.
There is no “conspiracy” to keep the dnc neoliberal. They do it right out in the fucking open and they couldn’t be more clear about it.
The current Dem leader in the house is an actual public school buster with direct ties to private school corporations yet we still have blatant shills like you trying to gaslight us into believing that the democrats aren’t intentionally pro-corporate neoliberals. That’s fucking hilarious.
There is no “conspiracy” to keep the dnc neoliberal. They do it right out in the fucking open and they couldn’t be more clear about it.
That would still be a conspiracy, I never said it was a conspiracy theory. But if having Caucus leadership of a certain ideology makes the entire party that ideology, let's look at the largest democratic caucus and who leads it
Well look at that, it's the largest caucus of the Democratic Party and its literally lead by a socialist. The entire democratic party must be socialist /s.
We are definitely trying to fight with capitalists over who "owns" the party right now, but walking away from the fight now and trying the same thing the CPUSA and SPA have been trying for a century would be stupid.
Nope, party flips have happened before and they will happen again. You sound extremely condescending for someone who doesn’t know nearly as much they think they do.
The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests. You well never succeed in “converting” it to socialism. and no, getting a handful of candidates like AOC elected over the course of a few decades doesn’t show that you can. It actually proves the opposite point.
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.
The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests.
You ever seen proof for this or did you just hear it and it sounded right?
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.
Lmfao the Democratic Party used to be the part of Slavery and Segregation, and then what do you know, one of those party flips you literally mentioned happened and they became the ones spearheading the fight for civil rights in Congress. I see no reason the same can't happen around capitalism.
And now they are the party of genocide. Hey! Maybe you're right!
Sure you can say that, but half the party supports a ceasefire, the entire republican party would glass gaza from orbit given a chance.
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever
Biden just called Trans people part of the fabric of our nation rofl what the fuck are you on about
Inb4 "well that doesn't count" lol
We should all know by now that that's not how it's going to have to work. The way to change politics in a country isn't from the outside. It's not even from the inside really, it's by getting inside and then tearing out all the support beams of fixtures and rebuilding it from the inside out. That's what conservatives under the Republican party for the last 15 to 20 years. They completely took over the party ousted all the ones that were too moderate for them, they rebuilt their party from the inside to be what it is today. Leftists are going to have to have the discipline to do the same.
The problem is the people running the DNC
At some point, we're going to have to make an actual left wing party. Because the only thing the national DNC cares about is money
They don't even know how to spend it effectively when they get it.
Socialist Party of America, Socialist Alternative, The Communist Party of the USA, and plenty others have been trying to run left of the Democratic Party for a century, it won't work in a FPTP voting system, converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
If you want a left wing party other than the Dems, you're gonna have to change FPTP first.
Or or, and hear me out here. We could do what has happened many different times throughout history. And take over/replace the structure of a party. The Democrats already ignore state and local elections across several red states. What if we lefties/socialist/etc instead of trying to prop up separate parties and separate candidates that always fail. Fielded our own candidates who more closely match our own ideals. And run them as Democrats in these areas. Focusing on funding them ourselves as well as whatever money the DNC apparatus might provide. We might actually start winning. And if we start winning we might actually be able to replace those in the DNC. And if we replace those in the DNC. Things might actually get better.
Isn't that what they said?
Yeah it was, but they added more context on how it was possible, so I wouldn't really say it was redundant.
This is what the DSA has been trying to do and succeeding in for 30 years with candidates like AOC
Succeeding? They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success? Lol, sounds like something a right wing Democrat would say, because that’s a very convenient result for the party itself. You’re either blindly loyal to this party or you must think we’re stupid.
Almost all of which were elected in the past decade, that's rather quick for a political change as large as that. And more are being elected every year.
The DSA literally helped Bernie almost win the presidential primary, that wouldn't of even come close to happening if the average Democrat was some right wing anti-socialist hawk.
They propped up a Zionist who is now campaigning for Genocide Joe
When the military is deployed to crush protestors and trans people have their existence banned by Trump I'll know who to thank.
Kinda weird yall insist on calling him Genocide Joe.
I don't care what nonsense falls out of his demented mouth as long as he is sending bombs to an ongoing genocide
Do you really and honestly believe that Joe Biden Is so evil that he's been sitting there relishing in the deaths of civilians for months?
And you do realize that sending weapons is not the sole discretion of the president? About 75% if congress keeps voting to send those weapons.
I could care less what he feels as he snuffs out the lives of children in Gaza.
Yes, it's absolutely in his discretion, and the lies his State Department are telling to continue doing so are outrageous and absurd.
Wait-5-moths-before-calling-a-genocide-a-genocide AOC?
What do you think that purity testing gets you?
Everyone has purity tests, everyone has red lines. None are more reasonable than genocide.
She said it was a humanitarian catastrophe from day one of the invasion and called for an immediate ceasefire soon after. Just because she didn't use the exact word you want, a hugely legally binding and implicating one too mind you, you're willing to write her off?
You do realize that if that is your standard then literally no member of congress or in the executive is good enough for you, right?
Not to mention that it'd be hugely irresponsible for any government official to make a comment like that before the ICC ruling is actually finished.
You think it's irresponsible to call this a genocide before the ICC comes to a verdict in 20 years?
The Communist Party is a fed honeypot
Lmfao, yeah how long has that been the case? Since they realized I was right and switched to endorsing leftist dems and protesting?
They're a private organization...
They'll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
The only thing the DNC has that a different private party wouldn't is momentum.
If they just gonna keep following the rnc, we have no choice but acknowledging we were abandoned long ago already
The DNC is a national political party organization. Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up. It's actually a pretty well created organizational system, the only people who really bitch about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it or the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.
Nope, it's a private for-profit corporation masquerading as a political party.
That's how they're legally registered and that's how they were able to argue in court that they can rig the primaries or even just directly appointment nominees if they want to
How adorably naive you are! 🥹
Biden and the rest of the leadership are part of a clique who took over the party in 1992 and never let go. Maybe some of the names and faces change, but the governing and campaign philosophies haven't changed since then and won't no matter how much the people they're supposed to represent do.
Fixed it for you
Yeah, because the Democratic Party operates based on pure consensus of the voters and never act against the will of the people for profit or to maintain the status quo.. 🙄
Are you being paid or are you gaslighting for free?
Reorganized from the ground up... to be exactly the same. They're not left.
This is Pelosi telling progressives and the left to F off... https://youtu.be/MR65ZhO6LGA
Pelosi doesn't pick who can enter or who wins a primary, none of the Democratic leadership does. That's the donor class at best, but even they can get steamrolled over as the left should've learned with AOC and Crowley.
It’s so pathetic how you all try to convince us that the Dems are a fairly run grassroots organization when we all know that’s complete bullshit. The second there’s a real threat to the party leadership they can and will change the rules with zero options for recourse through the courts. They’ve done it multiple times before and they will do it again.
At this point I have to assume you have malicious intent towards leftist voters because this is just blatant gaslighting.
The Democratic Party and the DNC and all the affiliates are nothing more than tools for whatever vaguely left of american center interest group wants to use them.
There's no massive conspiracy to keep the Democrats Neoliberal, and if there is anything even similar to that, it's happening behind closed doors in Wall Street, not Washington.
How long have you been involved in politics? I dont mean for that to sound demeaning. We've gone from Neoliberal democrats and Clinton gutting social welfare in the 90s to Socialists being integrated into the broader coalition, both parties have changed and will continue to change immensely over time. Ignoring that because you're upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016 and 2020 and disconnecting completely from the party is just a ticket to irrelevance, and I say that as someone who worked on some of Bernie's first barnstorm events and both presidential campaigns.
It's funny the way this thread went. I don't think people paid attention to how much the Democratic party changed after 2016 after the Bernie peeps found out about how the party is actually structured. But there ended up being 3 types of new grassroots activists.
Completely agree, I really don't know why these people think the DNC is some massive evil force trying to crush the grassroots leftie activism.
I'm pasting this from one of my earlier comments, but I feel like it's incredibly relevant.
I deeply feel that none of the people in this thread commenting about the malevolent DNC have done these, and kept doing them since the Bernie campaigns.
I love how democrats just throw out the word “conspiracy” whenever they’re trying to make rational ideas sound crazy.
There is no “conspiracy” to keep the dnc neoliberal. They do it right out in the fucking open and they couldn’t be more clear about it.
The current Dem leader in the house is an actual public school buster with direct ties to private school corporations yet we still have blatant shills like you trying to gaslight us into believing that the democrats aren’t intentionally pro-corporate neoliberals. That’s fucking hilarious.
That would still be a conspiracy, I never said it was a conspiracy theory. But if having Caucus leadership of a certain ideology makes the entire party that ideology, let's look at the largest democratic caucus and who leads it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus
Well look at that, it's the largest caucus of the Democratic Party and its literally lead by a socialist. The entire democratic party must be socialist /s.
We are definitely trying to fight with capitalists over who "owns" the party right now, but walking away from the fight now and trying the same thing the CPUSA and SPA have been trying for a century would be stupid.
Nope, party flips have happened before and they will happen again. You sound extremely condescending for someone who doesn’t know nearly as much they think they do.
The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests. You well never succeed in “converting” it to socialism. and no, getting a handful of candidates like AOC elected over the course of a few decades doesn’t show that you can. It actually proves the opposite point.
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.
You ever seen proof for this or did you just hear it and it sounded right?
Lmfao the Democratic Party used to be the part of Slavery and Segregation, and then what do you know, one of those party flips you literally mentioned happened and they became the ones spearheading the fight for civil rights in Congress. I see no reason the same can't happen around capitalism.
And now they are the party of genocide. Hey! Maybe you're right!
Sure you can say that, but half the party supports a ceasefire, the entire republican party would glass gaza from orbit given a chance.
Biden just called Trans people part of the fabric of our nation rofl what the fuck are you on about
Inb4 "well that doesn't count" lol
We should all know by now that that's not how it's going to have to work. The way to change politics in a country isn't from the outside. It's not even from the inside really, it's by getting inside and then tearing out all the support beams of fixtures and rebuilding it from the inside out. That's what conservatives under the Republican party for the last 15 to 20 years. They completely took over the party ousted all the ones that were too moderate for them, they rebuilt their party from the inside to be what it is today. Leftists are going to have to have the discipline to do the same.
And what about the people running the RNC?