To that end, this means we would need to lower standards, use some forced labor, and increase taxes to increase subsidies in order to compete.
Republicans would shoot down the subsidies.
No it literally wouldn't. It's absolutely possible to produce smaller lightweight vehicles with the exact same standards. But unfortunately we've all been pushed towards larger vehicles. Simply because they make more money on them.
The push towards large vehicles was due to the fact that they used a truck chassis, and were exempt from safety and emissions requirements of a “car”
Not if it's electric (for emissions)
While true, the general cultural preference for larger vehicles will inherently carryover to when people are deciding what EV to buy.
I'd love a 2015 sized Ford ranger that's fully electric.
I want a 1995 ranger that's electric, those things were great
That would be great but there are 4 of us so the 3 person bench wouldn't work unfortunately.
If we're going old school, go old school. Oldest kid rides in the bed.
Plenty of room in the back
Unfortunately producing a smaller affordable car for the average person would fall under "lower standards" 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
It doesn't matter what size car Americans build, they simply can't compete. Larger vehicles are a cultural preference and fits the American environment.
If this was true, the Chinese EVs could be allowed in and no one would buy them. I personally want a smaller car that can comfortably seat 5 and has additional safety and comfort features (backup cameras, lane assist, heat pump climate control, etc.). This could easily be done with a sedan, hatchback, or station wagon. The only cars that have these features that I know of are SUVs.
Not exactly true when they're selling them for $10k-$15k. The Bolt is comparable to a Chinese EV and they only sell around 2k per month while something like the Model 3 sells 50k per month.
If you lowered the price of the Bolt to the price of a 10 year old used Camry, I'm sure it would sell a lot better but this is an artificial price that completely distorts the market and puts a lot of people out of work for what amounts to a temporary savings. This is the whole point of tariffs. They level the playing field for everyone.
Where I live, the base model of the Chevy Bolt is $41k, and doesn't have heat pump climate control (or isn't talking about it). It also doesn't look like it would seat 5 comfortably. Now, even without the spectre of financially supporting Elon's antics, I don't see a lot of reason to pay another $10k for a reasonably similar car. People are weird. 🤷♂️
Often what people say they want and what they actually spend their money on are not even in the same ballpark. This reminds me of all the guys from /r/Cars who'd say they dream of some stripped down vehicle with crank windows and no features but when manufacturers make them, nobody actually buys them.
They discontinued the Bolt. They needed the factory for trucks.
Yeah I know. By popular demand. They didn't plan to bring it back until people complained about one of the only affordable EVs being removed from the market. But it's coming back on their ultium platform that's been plagued with problems.
I think they're a preference of the motor industry who want you to buy more expensive cars.
Nah
Just producing EV versions of Honda Fit or Ford Fiesta like what the Chinese EV makers do is enough. Instead, they keep producing EVs with luxury features (and high price tags) then surprised people won't buy them without subsidy.
You're describing the Bolt and it sells terribly here. The Model 3 outsells it 20:1 in any given month.
The Bolt isn't cheap though (almost 2x of Honda Fit price), and wasn't produced in sufficient quantity. The Chinese EV companies are somehow able to produce entry level EV models with minimal features at a price cheaper than Honda Fit and they're selling like hot cakes both domestically and in neighboring Asian countries.
With the $7500 credit, the Bolt is the same price or slightly cheaper than the Fit when you account for inflation.
China is able to sell these vehicles for this cheap because the government is giving these companies cash to sell them at these artificially low prices. That's the whole point of this discussion and the proposed tariffs as none of the competition will be receiving subsidies at these levels in order to compete. China is also known for lax worker protections which helps to drive the costs down further at the expense of the workforce and is not something they'll be able to do if they manufacture here.
Are they still doing the EV credit thing?
Subsidy definitely helps, but those Chinese car manufacturers are able to squeeze their parts suppliers hard, so they're able to sell their cars cheaper even without subsidy. For example, their gasoline cars are about half the price of comparable Japanese models, even with engines sourced from GM/Ford.
We already use slave labor in the guise of prisoners. How low do we need to go?
To that end, this means we would need to lower standards, use some forced labor, and increase taxes to increase subsidies in order to compete.
Republicans would shoot down the subsidies.
No it literally wouldn't. It's absolutely possible to produce smaller lightweight vehicles with the exact same standards. But unfortunately we've all been pushed towards larger vehicles. Simply because they make more money on them.
The push towards large vehicles was due to the fact that they used a truck chassis, and were exempt from safety and emissions requirements of a “car”
Not if it's electric (for emissions)
While true, the general cultural preference for larger vehicles will inherently carryover to when people are deciding what EV to buy.
I'd love a 2015 sized Ford ranger that's fully electric.
I want a 1995 ranger that's electric, those things were great
That would be great but there are 4 of us so the 3 person bench wouldn't work unfortunately.
If we're going old school, go old school. Oldest kid rides in the bed.
Plenty of room in the back
Unfortunately producing a smaller affordable car for the average person would fall under "lower standards" 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
It doesn't matter what size car Americans build, they simply can't compete. Larger vehicles are a cultural preference and fits the American environment.
If this was true, the Chinese EVs could be allowed in and no one would buy them. I personally want a smaller car that can comfortably seat 5 and has additional safety and comfort features (backup cameras, lane assist, heat pump climate control, etc.). This could easily be done with a sedan, hatchback, or station wagon. The only cars that have these features that I know of are SUVs.
Not exactly true when they're selling them for $10k-$15k. The Bolt is comparable to a Chinese EV and they only sell around 2k per month while something like the Model 3 sells 50k per month.
If you lowered the price of the Bolt to the price of a 10 year old used Camry, I'm sure it would sell a lot better but this is an artificial price that completely distorts the market and puts a lot of people out of work for what amounts to a temporary savings. This is the whole point of tariffs. They level the playing field for everyone.
Where I live, the base model of the Chevy Bolt is $41k, and doesn't have heat pump climate control (or isn't talking about it). It also doesn't look like it would seat 5 comfortably. Now, even without the spectre of financially supporting Elon's antics, I don't see a lot of reason to pay another $10k for a reasonably similar car. People are weird. 🤷♂️
Often what people say they want and what they actually spend their money on are not even in the same ballpark. This reminds me of all the guys from /r/Cars who'd say they dream of some stripped down vehicle with crank windows and no features but when manufacturers make them, nobody actually buys them.
They discontinued the Bolt. They needed the factory for trucks.
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/03/next-gen-chevy-bolt-ev-to-arrive-for-2026-model-year/
Yeah I know. By popular demand. They didn't plan to bring it back until people complained about one of the only affordable EVs being removed from the market. But it's coming back on their ultium platform that's been plagued with problems.
I think they're a preference of the motor industry who want you to buy more expensive cars.
Nah
Just producing EV versions of Honda Fit or Ford Fiesta like what the Chinese EV makers do is enough. Instead, they keep producing EVs with luxury features (and high price tags) then surprised people won't buy them without subsidy.
You're describing the Bolt and it sells terribly here. The Model 3 outsells it 20:1 in any given month.
The Bolt isn't cheap though (almost 2x of Honda Fit price), and wasn't produced in sufficient quantity. The Chinese EV companies are somehow able to produce entry level EV models with minimal features at a price cheaper than Honda Fit and they're selling like hot cakes both domestically and in neighboring Asian countries.
With the $7500 credit, the Bolt is the same price or slightly cheaper than the Fit when you account for inflation.
China is able to sell these vehicles for this cheap because the government is giving these companies cash to sell them at these artificially low prices. That's the whole point of this discussion and the proposed tariffs as none of the competition will be receiving subsidies at these levels in order to compete. China is also known for lax worker protections which helps to drive the costs down further at the expense of the workforce and is not something they'll be able to do if they manufacture here.
Are they still doing the EV credit thing?
Subsidy definitely helps, but those Chinese car manufacturers are able to squeeze their parts suppliers hard, so they're able to sell their cars cheaper even without subsidy. For example, their gasoline cars are about half the price of comparable Japanese models, even with engines sourced from GM/Ford.
We already use slave labor in the guise of prisoners. How low do we need to go?