Pretty sure the guns i see the criminals use aren't even legal. Crazy extended mags
This is the fundamental problem with gun regulation at the state level -- they can be effectively abrogated by neighboring states with more lax regulation. FiveThirtyEight did a piece on this a while ago. In that article they show how strict gun laws in Illinois, California, and Maryland are defeated by guns flowing in from the surrounding states with more lax laws. The vast majority of gun crime is committed with guns which are illegally possessed, but were initially obtained through legal means.
That's why Mexico is suing Arizona, and maybe Texas? Cali has strict gun laws so the cartels can't get guns here. They have no issues getting guns in AZ and TX
Yeah, that's basically the legal theory of the suits. It's pretty novel and there are a lot of issues with it.
Big part of the modern drug trade is fueled by arms sales passing South as collateral.
US arms exports are paid for with Latin American drug money. And those arms help gangs engage in the human trafficking they need to produce recreational narcotics and amphetamines at industrial scale.
Wait are you implying that regulating fire arms in USA would help to deal with human traffic and drugs from mexico?
I mean it makes sense, but doesn't certain people hate mexicans and like guns a bit too much? Are they using their brains at all?
Wait are you implying that regulating fire arms in USA would help to deal with human traffic and drugs from mexico?
More describing the economic incentives of the opposition.
I mean it makes sense, but doesn’t certain people hate mexicans and like guns a bit too much?
On paper, sure. But in practice the folks profiting from the exchange can just blame the drugs and the crime on stupid weak leftists in government to deflect blame from the arms trafficking.
Are they using their brains at all?
Garbage in, garbage out. If all your information comes from gun-sponsored sources, you'll end up with gun-sponsored views.
You can’t even argue that Mexican Cartel members have a constitutional right to bear arms.
Even though the law can be circumvented, it nonetheless provides resistance. Traveling to another state, filling out paperwork, paying extra money, etc all provide additional obstacles to overcome. If someone was having an acute mental problem and felt compelled to eat a barrel, a simple few hours delay in acquiring a gun can make all the difference. For someone planning on using a gun for criminal activity, at some point they might just consider employment as an easier alternative if acquiring a gun is too much of a pain.
We have already seen this effect in reverse with regard to immigration. Legal immigration is such a painful crapshoot that people are willing to surrender their fate to cartels as an alternative.
That's great and all, but the data are in the article. Your hypotheticals don't do much to change the numbers of guns flowing in from other states. If your argument is that the counterfactual would be even more gun crime, you're welcome to make it; it's just a really weak argument to lean into.
Wait.... You're telling me that they continue to do crimes with guns even when the guns are illegal? Criminals? Really? I refuse to believe it.
the guns i see the criminals use
Are you running up to folks during a bank robbery and asking them for receipts?
Or is this, like, guns you saw criminals use in a cartoon show?
I assume they mean the ones they show on the news after a mass shooting.
Those are usually legal.
I assume they're more likely to show pictures of the weapon when the gun isn't legal or has unusual features. I hadn't even seen a bump stock before that shooting in Navada made them big news.
over 80% of mass shooters at K-12 schools stole guns from family members, according to research funded by the National Institute of Justice
Stolen and ghost guns absolutely make up a large percentage of the weapons used in crimes, there are many reports and statistics to back this up. If you need some hard data I'll be happy to provide or you could do a quick web search as well.
How is this relevant at all? If the tax slows the sale of guns, then there will be fewer guns in the future compared to the projected numbers without a tax.
Fewer guns = less gun violence. This is a well understood dynamic.
I'm really fucking tired of people like you arguing against harm reduction just because it doesn't go far enough to actually solve the gun crisis. We never take a step forward because of this attitude.
Stolen and ghost guns absolutely make up a large percentage of the weapons used in crimes
You're leaning hard on the term "stolen" to describe a teenager using a parent's firearm, particularly when the teen already has regular access to the weapon for target practice.
Similarly, guns that have been anonymized after purchase aren't something you can regulate against.
Sure, that’s one of the missing links: owners need to be responsible for safeguarding their weapons or face consequences. Either it was an actual theft and the kid faces legal consequences for that too or it was careless behavior on the owner and they face partial consequences for the deaths and devastation
owners need to be responsible for safeguarding their weapons or face consequences
We played this game with Beto O'Rourke. He tanked his electoral prospects by suggesting he'd enforce gun laws like any other governor would enforce drug laws.
Between the Sandy Hook style conspiracy theories and the NRA hysteria, the onus is never on the gun owners. It's always on the victims to not get shot.
The point of most gun control is to reduce the amount of guns not necessarily remove them all.
Of course at least some criminals will always have guns but lots of deaths could be prevented by just reducing the amount of people with illegal or legal guns.
It's also much more likely for a potential criminal to become a criminal with a gun if it's really easy to get guns, especially if they or someone they know (like parents) already own one.
Pretty sure the guns i see the criminals use aren't even legal. Crazy extended mags
This is the fundamental problem with gun regulation at the state level -- they can be effectively abrogated by neighboring states with more lax regulation. FiveThirtyEight did a piece on this a while ago. In that article they show how strict gun laws in Illinois, California, and Maryland are defeated by guns flowing in from the surrounding states with more lax laws. The vast majority of gun crime is committed with guns which are illegally possessed, but were initially obtained through legal means.
That's why Mexico is suing Arizona, and maybe Texas? Cali has strict gun laws so the cartels can't get guns here. They have no issues getting guns in AZ and TX
Yeah, that's basically the legal theory of the suits. It's pretty novel and there are a lot of issues with it.
Big part of the modern drug trade is fueled by arms sales passing South as collateral.
US arms exports are paid for with Latin American drug money. And those arms help gangs engage in the human trafficking they need to produce recreational narcotics and amphetamines at industrial scale.
Wait are you implying that regulating fire arms in USA would help to deal with human traffic and drugs from mexico?
I mean it makes sense, but doesn't certain people hate mexicans and like guns a bit too much? Are they using their brains at all?
More describing the economic incentives of the opposition.
On paper, sure. But in practice the folks profiting from the exchange can just blame the drugs and the crime on stupid weak leftists in government to deflect blame from the arms trafficking.
Garbage in, garbage out. If all your information comes from gun-sponsored sources, you'll end up with gun-sponsored views.
You can’t even argue that Mexican Cartel members have a constitutional right to bear arms.
Even though the law can be circumvented, it nonetheless provides resistance. Traveling to another state, filling out paperwork, paying extra money, etc all provide additional obstacles to overcome. If someone was having an acute mental problem and felt compelled to eat a barrel, a simple few hours delay in acquiring a gun can make all the difference. For someone planning on using a gun for criminal activity, at some point they might just consider employment as an easier alternative if acquiring a gun is too much of a pain.
We have already seen this effect in reverse with regard to immigration. Legal immigration is such a painful crapshoot that people are willing to surrender their fate to cartels as an alternative.
That's great and all, but the data are in the article. Your hypotheticals don't do much to change the numbers of guns flowing in from other states. If your argument is that the counterfactual would be even more gun crime, you're welcome to make it; it's just a really weak argument to lean into.
Wait.... You're telling me that they continue to do crimes with guns even when the guns are illegal? Criminals? Really? I refuse to believe it.
Are you running up to folks during a bank robbery and asking them for receipts?
Or is this, like, guns you saw criminals use in a cartoon show?
I assume they mean the ones they show on the news after a mass shooting.
Those are usually legal.
I assume they're more likely to show pictures of the weapon when the gun isn't legal or has unusual features. I hadn't even seen a bump stock before that shooting in Navada made them big news.
Stolen and ghost guns absolutely make up a large percentage of the weapons used in crimes, there are many reports and statistics to back this up. If you need some hard data I'll be happy to provide or you could do a quick web search as well.
How is this relevant at all? If the tax slows the sale of guns, then there will be fewer guns in the future compared to the projected numbers without a tax.
Fewer guns = less gun violence. This is a well understood dynamic.
I'm really fucking tired of people like you arguing against harm reduction just because it doesn't go far enough to actually solve the gun crisis. We never take a step forward because of this attitude.
You're leaning hard on the term "stolen" to describe a teenager using a parent's firearm, particularly when the teen already has regular access to the weapon for target practice.
Similarly, guns that have been anonymized after purchase aren't something you can regulate against.
Sure, that’s one of the missing links: owners need to be responsible for safeguarding their weapons or face consequences. Either it was an actual theft and the kid faces legal consequences for that too or it was careless behavior on the owner and they face partial consequences for the deaths and devastation
We played this game with Beto O'Rourke. He tanked his electoral prospects by suggesting he'd enforce gun laws like any other governor would enforce drug laws.
Between the Sandy Hook style conspiracy theories and the NRA hysteria, the onus is never on the gun owners. It's always on the victims to not get shot.
So fewer guns to steal = few crimes?
Sounds like extra taxes are a good idea.
Naw just around some major cities in California
How very non-specific.
The point of most gun control is to reduce the amount of guns not necessarily remove them all.
Of course at least some criminals will always have guns but lots of deaths could be prevented by just reducing the amount of people with illegal or legal guns.
It's also much more likely for a potential criminal to become a criminal with a gun if it's really easy to get guns, especially if they or someone they know (like parents) already own one.