Im not American but doesnt everyone usually vote to keep the worst out not the best one in?
Kinda... mostly because the best ones never become candidates. The parties push the candidates that serve the interests of the partys donors then try to convince the voters they actually care.
Most elections are a choice between two mediocre candidates.
With the current state of the Republican party, it's truly about getting more of them out of power. Unless you're a white Christofascist bootlicker.
I used to mainly vote third party as a protest vote for both sides to do better. Didn't matter the party, really.
I voted for Obama out of genuinely wanting him in office. I thought he was decent overall but he did disappoint me.
I voted for Biden purely to keep Trump out of office. Even so, I think Biden has largely been a better President than Obama was, though the Gaza/Israel thing is really testing that. I would love to have a more progressive choice, but any time I am disappointed in Biden, I just remind myself the alternative and I would crawl across a mile of broken glass to vote for him.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
If you mean "unique in 240 years of American history" I agree.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
as will be the next, and the one after that, as well as all of the ones following; meanwhile you'll continue crawling over broken glass and giving a pass to ongoing genocides because you believe it's better than the alternative somehow without realizing there's one alternative.
no one knows the right answer, but there are plenty of wrong answers and 2 of those have been placed before and you're told that you must select one.
Told? It's just math. If you want to change things, you have to either do it from within an existing party or wait for an existing party to implode and then maybe there is an opportunity for change.
I'm fifty. I spent a lot of fucking elections wasting my vote on third parties, thinking I was sending some kind of message or making things better, but here we are. I wasted every single vote prior to 2008. Would anything be different if I hadn't? No. Would anything be different if a bunch of people hadn't? I don't know. Maybe.
as i said before: no one knows the right answer, but there are plenty of wrong answers, we know they're wrong because we've tried them and things don't get better (and we sometimes try it again with the same results); we're only allowed to pick from among those wrong answers only.
trying anything otherwise might also be a wrong answer; but we will never know because there are plenty who will shame you if don't pick the same wrong answer they do.
Fair. Government is hard. There is no such thing as a right answer. Just shit that we find out later didn't work. I'm not happy with either of the two parties; I don't really believe in parties anyway. But here we are.
Fight the good fight, my friend, but just don't let fascism take us. My grandfather fought against the fascists in WW2, and here I am doing the same (though admittedly with way less personal risk) 80 years later. I don't like it, but it is what it is.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
I worry that it's the new baseline.
New baseline?! I have often gotten the feeling that you are an adolescent. It would explain so many of the shitty hot takes and bad ideas. But this really kind of solidifies it. Being young is not an insult however. We all were at one point in time. And we all matured and grew up.
This is so not a new thing though. Trump is literally Reagan part 2. And that's just within the last 50 years that's not even mentioning Nixon or all the others that came before him. The truth is this is been the way it has always been. It sucks that so much of the energy of youth is wasted tilting at windmills. Instead of actually understanding and working to improve things. Actively demotivating non Republican voters in an effort to get the Republican candidate to win. That sounds like a real good way to improve things.
As someone who lived through the Reagan administrations, Trump is far, far worse than Reagan part 2.
Granted there are similarities such as Reagan ignoring AIDS and Trump ignoring Covid, but at the same time, Reagan was far more likeable while committing actual war crimes in the Iran/Contra affair, and having the CIA dealing cocaine.
40% of voting-eligible Americans simply don’t vote at all.
I mean Boomer Democrat voters could sit down and ask themselves "Is voting for a geriatric establishment white man really the move in the 2020 primaries if we want those "young" (read: anyone under the age of 65) voters to engage in politics"
But they won't because even though they vote Democrat they're still Boomers. And Boomers can't handle not getting their way.
If you have a non proportional system where parties don't make coalitions, there's no other choice (unless you live in a region where a specific party always wins with a majority of the votes, then do what you want).
Wasn't the case with Obama, as one easy example
Well, millennials voted for Obama because he genuinely inspired hope. Then we saw how he governed and it killed our entire generation's sense of hope.
Then you saw Biden being a better president than Obama because he was more experienced. Maybe the answer here is to pay more attention to what a politician does than what he says
LOL, if that were answer, then Biden would be judged on the anti-drug legislation he spearheaded in '84, '86, and '88 that gave us expanded sentences for possession, civil asset forfeiture, and the racist sentencing disparity between crack and powdered cocaine. He'd also be judged on the 1994 crime bill he co-authored that led to the largest increase in mass incarceration in 40 years. Oh, and let's not forget the time he teamed up with Robert Byrd, a Senator and Klansman, to pass anti-bussing legislation. Point is, Biden has benefited a lot from people listening to what he says and forgetting what he's done.
Biden has benefited a lot from people listening to what he says and forgetting what he’s done.
You mean forgetting that Biden has the lowest unemployment rate since the 1960's? Forgetting that he raised the minimum tax rate on corporations from 0% to 15%? Forgetting that that every few days there is a record stock market high? That nobody could have handled Covid or Ukraine better?
Biden is the victim of a lot of people forgetting what he's done.
I don't think you understand my point. You made a comment about how I should judge politicians on their actions, not their words. So I pointed out that Biden's actions before his election included anti-bussing legislation, several racist drug bills, and the worst expansion of the prison-industrial complex in history. I'm glad you're happy with Biden's performance as President, but you clearly ignored a lot of what he did as a Senator and listened to what he said as a presidential candidate (or you really like racist drug policies and mass incarceration).
I couldn't care less what Biden did in the 1970's. It is ridiculous to call him "racist", as he was the running mate of the first black president.
Your original comment:
Maybe the answer here is to pay more attention to what a politician does than what he says.
Your current comment:
I couldn't care less what Biden did in the 1970's.
Maybe the answer here is to not leave condescending replies to other people's comments if you're just going to completely contradict yourself and negate your own point.
Dude what a politicians does NOW matters a hell of a lot more than what they did 50 years ago lol.
and negate your own point.
And Biden being the VP of the first black president 100% negates him being against forced busing in the 1970's. And everybody was against force busing in the 1970's. It was a stupid policy then.
Dude what a politicians does NOW matters
Do you understand how insanely incoherent what you're saying is? You're saying that my mistake in voting for Obama was that I listened to what he said instead of paying attention to what he did. But I should only pay attention to what a politician doing NOW, not what they've done in the past. So I shouldn't just listen to what they say they'll do in the future, but I can't judge them based on what they've done in the past...so how am I supposed to pick a candidate? Use psychic powers to know what they're going to do in the future?!?!?!
Like, I could keep arguing about Biden; you're ignoring 20 additional years of racist legislation I brought up, and I didn't even get to his support for the Iraq War...but I don't even care about that. Explain how the hell your philosophy of ignoring what a candidate says and watching what they do while ignoring what they've done makes any kind of sense.
But I should only pay attention to what a politician doing NOW, not what they’ve done in the past.
Yes. Now as in current term of office. Not 50 years ago. Biden's rejected of forced busing 50 years ago does not have the slightest relevance to anything he does as president. Do you not understand how much political climates change in a huge way over 1/2 of a century?
and I didn’t even get to his support for the Iraq War
You mean when Biden was one of the very few senators who voted against the first Iraq was in 1993?
but I can’t judge them based on what they’ve done in the past
If you are complaining about something Biden did in the 1970's, it's just because you are on some ridiculous anti-Biden kick. Everybody knows it doesn't have the slightest relevance to his presidential terms.
Explain how the hell your philosophy of ignoring what a candidate says and watching what they do while ignoring what they’ve done makes any kind of sense.
Watch what Biden has done as president. He's been the most progressive president since FDR. Pretty simple.
OK, you're very clearly just avoiding all the things I say that you don't want to hear, and honestly, this feels like I'm just punching down now, so I'm just gonna stop. Good luck buddy.
OK, you're very clearly just avoiding that I said Biden was the most progressive president of the last 50 years, and not the most progressive senator. Good luck guy.
Not true at all. Some of them are actively trying to get the worst one in.
Im not American but doesnt everyone usually vote to keep the worst out not the best one in?
Kinda... mostly because the best ones never become candidates. The parties push the candidates that serve the interests of the partys donors then try to convince the voters they actually care.
Most elections are a choice between two mediocre candidates.
With the current state of the Republican party, it's truly about getting more of them out of power. Unless you're a white Christofascist bootlicker.
I used to mainly vote third party as a protest vote for both sides to do better. Didn't matter the party, really.
I voted for Obama out of genuinely wanting him in office. I thought he was decent overall but he did disappoint me.
I voted for Biden purely to keep Trump out of office. Even so, I think Biden has largely been a better President than Obama was, though the Gaza/Israel thing is really testing that. I would love to have a more progressive choice, but any time I am disappointed in Biden, I just remind myself the alternative and I would crawl across a mile of broken glass to vote for him.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
If you mean "unique in 240 years of American history" I agree.
as will be the next, and the one after that, as well as all of the ones following; meanwhile you'll continue crawling over broken glass and giving a pass to ongoing genocides because you believe it's better than the alternative somehow without realizing there's one alternative.
no one knows the right answer, but there are plenty of wrong answers and 2 of those have been placed before and you're told that you must select one.
Told? It's just math. If you want to change things, you have to either do it from within an existing party or wait for an existing party to implode and then maybe there is an opportunity for change.
I'm fifty. I spent a lot of fucking elections wasting my vote on third parties, thinking I was sending some kind of message or making things better, but here we are. I wasted every single vote prior to 2008. Would anything be different if I hadn't? No. Would anything be different if a bunch of people hadn't? I don't know. Maybe.
as i said before: no one knows the right answer, but there are plenty of wrong answers, we know they're wrong because we've tried them and things don't get better (and we sometimes try it again with the same results); we're only allowed to pick from among those wrong answers only.
trying anything otherwise might also be a wrong answer; but we will never know because there are plenty who will shame you if don't pick the same wrong answer they do.
Fair. Government is hard. There is no such thing as a right answer. Just shit that we find out later didn't work. I'm not happy with either of the two parties; I don't really believe in parties anyway. But here we are.
Fight the good fight, my friend, but just don't let fascism take us. My grandfather fought against the fascists in WW2, and here I am doing the same (though admittedly with way less personal risk) 80 years later. I don't like it, but it is what it is.
I worry that it's the new baseline.
New baseline?! I have often gotten the feeling that you are an adolescent. It would explain so many of the shitty hot takes and bad ideas. But this really kind of solidifies it. Being young is not an insult however. We all were at one point in time. And we all matured and grew up.
This is so not a new thing though. Trump is literally Reagan part 2. And that's just within the last 50 years that's not even mentioning Nixon or all the others that came before him. The truth is this is been the way it has always been. It sucks that so much of the energy of youth is wasted tilting at windmills. Instead of actually understanding and working to improve things. Actively demotivating non Republican voters in an effort to get the Republican candidate to win. That sounds like a real good way to improve things.
As someone who lived through the Reagan administrations, Trump is far, far worse than Reagan part 2.
Granted there are similarities such as Reagan ignoring AIDS and Trump ignoring Covid, but at the same time, Reagan was far more likeable while committing actual war crimes in the Iran/Contra affair, and having the CIA dealing cocaine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking
40% of voting-eligible Americans simply don’t vote at all.
I mean Boomer Democrat voters could sit down and ask themselves "Is voting for a geriatric establishment white man really the move in the 2020 primaries if we want those "young" (read: anyone under the age of 65) voters to engage in politics"
But they won't because even though they vote Democrat they're still Boomers. And Boomers can't handle not getting their way.
If you have a non proportional system where parties don't make coalitions, there's no other choice (unless you live in a region where a specific party always wins with a majority of the votes, then do what you want).
Wasn't the case with Obama, as one easy example
Well, millennials voted for Obama because he genuinely inspired hope. Then we saw how he governed and it killed our entire generation's sense of hope.
Then you saw Biden being a better president than Obama because he was more experienced. Maybe the answer here is to pay more attention to what a politician does than what he says
LOL, if that were answer, then Biden would be judged on the anti-drug legislation he spearheaded in '84, '86, and '88 that gave us expanded sentences for possession, civil asset forfeiture, and the racist sentencing disparity between crack and powdered cocaine. He'd also be judged on the 1994 crime bill he co-authored that led to the largest increase in mass incarceration in 40 years. Oh, and let's not forget the time he teamed up with Robert Byrd, a Senator and Klansman, to pass anti-bussing legislation. Point is, Biden has benefited a lot from people listening to what he says and forgetting what he's done.
You mean forgetting that Biden has the lowest unemployment rate since the 1960's? Forgetting that he raised the minimum tax rate on corporations from 0% to 15%? Forgetting that that every few days there is a record stock market high? That nobody could have handled Covid or Ukraine better?
Biden is the victim of a lot of people forgetting what he's done.
I don't think you understand my point. You made a comment about how I should judge politicians on their actions, not their words. So I pointed out that Biden's actions before his election included anti-bussing legislation, several racist drug bills, and the worst expansion of the prison-industrial complex in history. I'm glad you're happy with Biden's performance as President, but you clearly ignored a lot of what he did as a Senator and listened to what he said as a presidential candidate (or you really like racist drug policies and mass incarceration).
I couldn't care less what Biden did in the 1970's. It is ridiculous to call him "racist", as he was the running mate of the first black president.
Your original comment:
Your current comment:
Maybe the answer here is to not leave condescending replies to other people's comments if you're just going to completely contradict yourself and negate your own point.
Dude what a politicians does NOW matters a hell of a lot more than what they did 50 years ago lol.
And Biden being the VP of the first black president 100% negates him being against forced busing in the 1970's. And everybody was against force busing in the 1970's. It was a stupid policy then.
Do you understand how insanely incoherent what you're saying is? You're saying that my mistake in voting for Obama was that I listened to what he said instead of paying attention to what he did. But I should only pay attention to what a politician doing NOW, not what they've done in the past. So I shouldn't just listen to what they say they'll do in the future, but I can't judge them based on what they've done in the past...so how am I supposed to pick a candidate? Use psychic powers to know what they're going to do in the future?!?!?!
Like, I could keep arguing about Biden; you're ignoring 20 additional years of racist legislation I brought up, and I didn't even get to his support for the Iraq War...but I don't even care about that. Explain how the hell your philosophy of ignoring what a candidate says and watching what they do while ignoring what they've done makes any kind of sense.
Yes. Now as in current term of office. Not 50 years ago. Biden's rejected of forced busing 50 years ago does not have the slightest relevance to anything he does as president. Do you not understand how much political climates change in a huge way over 1/2 of a century?
You mean when Biden was one of the very few senators who voted against the first Iraq was in 1993?
If you are complaining about something Biden did in the 1970's, it's just because you are on some ridiculous anti-Biden kick. Everybody knows it doesn't have the slightest relevance to his presidential terms.
Watch what Biden has done as president. He's been the most progressive president since FDR. Pretty simple.
OK, you're very clearly just avoiding all the things I say that you don't want to hear, and honestly, this feels like I'm just punching down now, so I'm just gonna stop. Good luck buddy.
OK, you're very clearly just avoiding that I said Biden was the most progressive president of the last 50 years, and not the most progressive senator. Good luck guy.
Not true at all. Some of them are actively trying to get the worst one in.