You get it! We can't fuck over vulnerable people. We can't abandon minorities and LGBT people. Even if we let things get worse to the point of a societal collapse, a lot of people will die because of it -- and societal collapse has not historically led to better societies down the road.
That's such an important point. Anyone who thinks a win by Trump will somehow speed up the advent of socialism is just deluded.
People think Trump will eventually make things so bad that the average man will salivate at the chance for Socialist rule...
What will actually happen if you get a nasty concoction made from a pinch of Handmaid's Tale with a dash of Holocaust 2....
And the average man won't care, as long as the trains run on time and they owned the libs... and if the trains don't run on time, they probably have libs to blame.
trains run on time
I am here to regretfully inform you about the state of american rail infrastructure...
I know, I sadly know.
My trans friends are what keeps me committed to voting Biden no matter how disappointed I am in him. Things are already really scary for them right now and I can't be complicit in making them worse, even through inaction.
Consider me another one of your trans friends. If Trump gets elected I'm probably gonna die in a concentration camp. Don't do that to me, don't do that to them. I'm begging you for my life.
As a transwoman as well, I second this!
Don't let the fascist win!
I'd suggest taking a flight overseas the day after the elections, booked prior to it. If Trump losses, you can use it to celebrate it. If he wins... well, you can ask for asylum on arrival.
Can't afford that...
😕
I am trans and not voting for Biden. I refuse to sacrifice Palestinians for my own safety or the safety of my loved ones. All the stuff people say now about them being an acceptable sacrifice or there being nothing they can do about it, that's what they'll be saying about us tomorrow. Solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable strategy for long term survival.
I hate being used as a rhetorical token to make people feel better about selling out another vulnerable group.
I respect this decision. But, I’m selfishly voting for Biden. Trump’s first term stressed me out.
Tbh I'm fine with respectful disagreement.
Thoughtful, educated and informed voting decisions should be respected. Shame on this duopoly for forcing its electorate to choose between tacit support for a genocide, and outright fascism.
Thank you. I have to vote according to my conscience and what I believe is right, but if someone else's conscience tells them differently, I can make my case but ultimately it is their decision to make. So many people on here expect everyone to think and see things the exact same way as them and can't even seem to imagine someone having different values or a different perspective, and that can be very frustrating.
If you actually cared you would vote biden. No one capable of it will save the Palestinians. None. At least with biden someone survives.
If our "democracy" has decayed to the point where I'm not able to vote on whether or not we do a genocide, then it is not a democracy and I should not legitimize the sham through participation.
There is no circumstance under which I will support genocide. If that means I die, then I will die. If any of you had a backbone you'd do the same. And if enough people drew that line, they'd have no choice but to listen to us.
Grow up. If you really want to fix our democracy it's going to take time. Vote for every chance you get. We already have one state with ranked choice voting. If you want a real democracy that is our avenue
Oh, does Biden support ranked choice voting, then?
He doesn't. I'm not going to support asshole after asshole in the vain hope that maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they'll eventually give us freedom, which directly opposes their own interests. You're the one that needs to grow up if you believe that fairy tale.
I don't know. But more dems then reps do
You know, I used to be a lot more extreme than I am now. When I was younger, I said I wouldn't vote for anyone unless they were going to reform the system to where I wouldn't have to vote for a lesser evil anymore, demanding that our rulers give up their power.
Now, all I'm asking is that they stop slaughtering people. They can rule over us in their sham democracy, if they would just stop killing all these people. They won't even do that. So again, my answer is "Hell no, fuck off." Biden is my enemy and I will oppose him just as I oppose Trump, regardless of what the odds are. Again, anyone with a spine and a conscience should be doing the same.
And you will lose and thePalestinians will die anyway. If you believe in your cause you would accept the fact that you might not live to see it come to fruition. That's what dying for a cause is all about.
Want to stop a genocide? Vote for a guy fighting against it happening in Ukraine
Or maybe if the average American stood with the marginalized instead of yelling at them to fall in line, we wouldn't constantly have issues where the marginalized are systemically murdered and imprisoned. The blood isn't on their hands for having morals and boundaries. It's on the masses who refuse to give up even an ounce of comfort to lend a hand to the downtrodden. The path the democrats are on is the same path the current republicans have walked before.
Who are you willing to sacrifice for your own comfort? Why is that a valid position? Because the other guy points that same weapon at you instead and it's scary? How many different groups are you willing to put on that sacrifice list until you just turn into a fascist republican? "Just following orders" is just as cowardly a response as "It was my only choice".
Comfort? You're idiot won't wake up and realize the world is not that simple. You are already accepting yhe genocide of Ukrainians and lbgtq people because your ego won't accept that change only happens with work and time.
You are no different than they are.
Queer person here: we've had to violently fight for our rights and were successful in the past and we will do it again if we need to, so expecting a vote for anything will fix the issues of the marginalized is very out of touch. Doing nothing but voting is 99% political apathy, and it very much feels like all this browbeating is coming from someone who only votes and mayyyyybe donates to the ACLU or planned parenthood once every couple years. Do some real work and stop spending so much of your mental energy on inconsequential (assuming you don't live in a handful of swing states) things. Build coalitions. Form or join unions. Stand up for what is right and protest what is wrong.
Nope. There is no reasoning with me on this, my position is absolute and set in stone. You want my vote, get a better candidate. No other option, period.
They will flinch first. And if they don't, then we'll go to hell together. You're wasting your time with me.
Then you might as well go goose stepping right along side those trumpers
Well, if not voting for Trump counts as supporting him, then rest assured that Biden will have my "support."
I'm not lifting a finger to help either of them. If Trump wins, it'll be because the Democrats nominated that senile, genocidal corporate sycophant. It's their job to win elections, not mine. I've heard you people try to shift all blame away from your shitty party and onto the left a thousand times before. You're wasting your time. As I said, I don't give a shit. Fix the party, win without me, or lose. Your choice, I've made mine.
And here we go again. Once someone from a marginalized group exposes the lack of backbone and the insincerity of you, you attack him personally and suggest him to be part of "the enemy". It is funny in a sad way because this reads exactly like /r/conservative over on reddit, when people challenged the current Trump narrative.
Trans people are not a monolith. There's other trans people in this thread begging us to vote for Biden for their safety. Your feelings about being a rhetorical token are not invalid, but recognize that other people in your vulnerable group are legitimately crying out for help.
Either way, I'm glad I'm not one of your loved ones. Your own safety is one thing. Their safety is another.
They're entitled to their views, as I am to mine.
I will do whatever I can to protect my loved ones and ensure they retain access to their meds. But I cannot go against the dictates of my conscience. And as I said, in the long term, solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable path forward and I will not sacrifice that long term strategy for some fleeting, half-hearted protection. In fact I've already seen people applying the "lesser evil" argument to sacrificing trans rights since I posted this. Only by uniting and drawing a red line do we have a chance in the long run.
Right? Imagine it's a fucking Saw Trap, and there's an easy way out without sacrificing anyone... and an equally easy way out sacrificing everyone. Make the less sociopathic choice.
I can’t even imagine how awful the people who fill that vacuum would be.
Biden is literally arming a genocide. He was even adamant about his continued support for that. Meanwhile Dems led cities have brutally beaten up peaceful colelge protests and invited fascist MAGA mobs to attack minority students there.
The DNC and Biden do not protect minorities. They are white supremacists with just a bit more moderation to the means they employ, but they will absolutely resort to authoritarian crackdowns if they feel the minorities to step out of line by demanding justice and rights.
We can’t fuck over vulnerable people.
That's what you're doing when voting for Dems.
Yes, I see how you're protecting me when you elect the party that would arrest me for being a "Public Danger" because of the fact that I'm trans.
If you would get off your ass and gather support for a decent party this wouldn't be a problem.
Last I tried my Socialist Party USA chapter belittled me, called me a rape apologist, and refused to do anything for the local community outside of shaming people for wanting to vote out Trump by any means possible.
That sucks, i bet there's a more accepting party in your area for you. Try PSL or Green party
"Your lack of support for Democrats may end up empowering people who will throw me in jail just for who I am"
"Stop being lazy and go improve a better party"
You're entitled to your opinion dude, but you were a major dick here.
Your lack of support for Democrats may end up empowering people who will throw me in jail just for who I am
Your support of Dems is what prevents a real opposition to fascism.
You’re entitled to your opinion dude, but you were a major dick here.
Truth hurts, don't care.
Here's a brutal truth for you then. Being a raging, unapologetic jerk won't progress your political goals. It'll only make them harder to achieve.
Also, you're a fucking asshole.
Here’s a brutal truth for you then. Being a raging, unapologetic jerk won’t progress your political goals. It’ll only make them harder to achieve.
My goal isn't to convince you, only show how you are wrong so people looking at this post will be influenced by it. Looking at your profile, you are too far gone.
No, you are an asshole.
Go educate yourself, and then you can join the adult discussions.
Oh the irony.
Agreed, hopefully someday you understand it.
Right, you should educate yourself.
What vulnerable people are dems going after?
If you don't know the answer to this already, I suppose the backlash against Biden from progressives might seem like bots or foreign propaganda.
I am starting to think so too.
Nope. I just understand democracy.
I feel like this reply is for someone else? We're both coming from a leftist position. Democrats only think they're being overrun with bots and propaganda because they aren't actually politically informed enough to know the valid reasons why people don't like them.
You're right, misread
Don't forget how Biden is being harder on immigration than Trump was but don't worry Biden is totally for minorities
The poor is the most clear. Also black people, just look at our prisons, and the crime bill Joe Biden wrote
Show me. Tell me how the party of Obama and Harris are going after them.
You get it! We can't fuck over vulnerable people. We can't abandon minorities and LGBT people. Even if we let things get worse to the point of a societal collapse, a lot of people will die because of it -- and societal collapse has not historically led to better societies down the road.
That's such an important point. Anyone who thinks a win by Trump will somehow speed up the advent of socialism is just deluded.
People think Trump will eventually make things so bad that the average man will salivate at the chance for Socialist rule...
What will actually happen if you get a nasty concoction made from a pinch of Handmaid's Tale with a dash of Holocaust 2....
And the average man won't care, as long as the trains run on time and they owned the libs... and if the trains don't run on time, they probably have libs to blame.
I am here to regretfully inform you about the state of american rail infrastructure...
I know, I sadly know.
My trans friends are what keeps me committed to voting Biden no matter how disappointed I am in him. Things are already really scary for them right now and I can't be complicit in making them worse, even through inaction.
Consider me another one of your trans friends. If Trump gets elected I'm probably gonna die in a concentration camp. Don't do that to me, don't do that to them. I'm begging you for my life.
As a transwoman as well, I second this!
Don't let the fascist win!
I'd suggest taking a flight overseas the day after the elections, booked prior to it. If Trump losses, you can use it to celebrate it. If he wins... well, you can ask for asylum on arrival.
Can't afford that...
😕
I am trans and not voting for Biden. I refuse to sacrifice Palestinians for my own safety or the safety of my loved ones. All the stuff people say now about them being an acceptable sacrifice or there being nothing they can do about it, that's what they'll be saying about us tomorrow. Solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable strategy for long term survival.
I hate being used as a rhetorical token to make people feel better about selling out another vulnerable group.
I respect this decision. But, I’m selfishly voting for Biden. Trump’s first term stressed me out.
Tbh I'm fine with respectful disagreement.
Thoughtful, educated and informed voting decisions should be respected. Shame on this duopoly for forcing its electorate to choose between tacit support for a genocide, and outright fascism.
Thank you. I have to vote according to my conscience and what I believe is right, but if someone else's conscience tells them differently, I can make my case but ultimately it is their decision to make. So many people on here expect everyone to think and see things the exact same way as them and can't even seem to imagine someone having different values or a different perspective, and that can be very frustrating.
If you actually cared you would vote biden. No one capable of it will save the Palestinians. None. At least with biden someone survives.
If our "democracy" has decayed to the point where I'm not able to vote on whether or not we do a genocide, then it is not a democracy and I should not legitimize the sham through participation.
There is no circumstance under which I will support genocide. If that means I die, then I will die. If any of you had a backbone you'd do the same. And if enough people drew that line, they'd have no choice but to listen to us.
Grow up. If you really want to fix our democracy it's going to take time. Vote for every chance you get. We already have one state with ranked choice voting. If you want a real democracy that is our avenue
Oh, does Biden support ranked choice voting, then?
He doesn't. I'm not going to support asshole after asshole in the vain hope that maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they'll eventually give us freedom, which directly opposes their own interests. You're the one that needs to grow up if you believe that fairy tale.
I don't know. But more dems then reps do
You know, I used to be a lot more extreme than I am now. When I was younger, I said I wouldn't vote for anyone unless they were going to reform the system to where I wouldn't have to vote for a lesser evil anymore, demanding that our rulers give up their power.
Now, all I'm asking is that they stop slaughtering people. They can rule over us in their sham democracy, if they would just stop killing all these people. They won't even do that. So again, my answer is "Hell no, fuck off." Biden is my enemy and I will oppose him just as I oppose Trump, regardless of what the odds are. Again, anyone with a spine and a conscience should be doing the same.
And you will lose and thePalestinians will die anyway. If you believe in your cause you would accept the fact that you might not live to see it come to fruition. That's what dying for a cause is all about.
Want to stop a genocide? Vote for a guy fighting against it happening in Ukraine
Or maybe if the average American stood with the marginalized instead of yelling at them to fall in line, we wouldn't constantly have issues where the marginalized are systemically murdered and imprisoned. The blood isn't on their hands for having morals and boundaries. It's on the masses who refuse to give up even an ounce of comfort to lend a hand to the downtrodden. The path the democrats are on is the same path the current republicans have walked before.
Who are you willing to sacrifice for your own comfort? Why is that a valid position? Because the other guy points that same weapon at you instead and it's scary? How many different groups are you willing to put on that sacrifice list until you just turn into a fascist republican? "Just following orders" is just as cowardly a response as "It was my only choice".
Comfort? You're idiot won't wake up and realize the world is not that simple. You are already accepting yhe genocide of Ukrainians and lbgtq people because your ego won't accept that change only happens with work and time. You are no different than they are.
Queer person here: we've had to violently fight for our rights and were successful in the past and we will do it again if we need to, so expecting a vote for anything will fix the issues of the marginalized is very out of touch. Doing nothing but voting is 99% political apathy, and it very much feels like all this browbeating is coming from someone who only votes and mayyyyybe donates to the ACLU or planned parenthood once every couple years. Do some real work and stop spending so much of your mental energy on inconsequential (assuming you don't live in a handful of swing states) things. Build coalitions. Form or join unions. Stand up for what is right and protest what is wrong.
Nope. There is no reasoning with me on this, my position is absolute and set in stone. You want my vote, get a better candidate. No other option, period.
They will flinch first. And if they don't, then we'll go to hell together. You're wasting your time with me.
Then you might as well go goose stepping right along side those trumpers
Well, if not voting for Trump counts as supporting him, then rest assured that Biden will have my "support."
I'm not lifting a finger to help either of them. If Trump wins, it'll be because the Democrats nominated that senile, genocidal corporate sycophant. It's their job to win elections, not mine. I've heard you people try to shift all blame away from your shitty party and onto the left a thousand times before. You're wasting your time. As I said, I don't give a shit. Fix the party, win without me, or lose. Your choice, I've made mine.
And here we go again. Once someone from a marginalized group exposes the lack of backbone and the insincerity of you, you attack him personally and suggest him to be part of "the enemy". It is funny in a sad way because this reads exactly like /r/conservative over on reddit, when people challenged the current Trump narrative.
Trans people are not a monolith. There's other trans people in this thread begging us to vote for Biden for their safety. Your feelings about being a rhetorical token are not invalid, but recognize that other people in your vulnerable group are legitimately crying out for help.
Either way, I'm glad I'm not one of your loved ones. Your own safety is one thing. Their safety is another.
They're entitled to their views, as I am to mine.
I will do whatever I can to protect my loved ones and ensure they retain access to their meds. But I cannot go against the dictates of my conscience. And as I said, in the long term, solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable path forward and I will not sacrifice that long term strategy for some fleeting, half-hearted protection. In fact I've already seen people applying the "lesser evil" argument to sacrificing trans rights since I posted this. Only by uniting and drawing a red line do we have a chance in the long run.
Right? Imagine it's a fucking Saw Trap, and there's an easy way out without sacrificing anyone... and an equally easy way out sacrificing everyone. Make the less sociopathic choice.
I can’t even imagine how awful the people who fill that vacuum would be.
Biden is literally arming a genocide. He was even adamant about his continued support for that. Meanwhile Dems led cities have brutally beaten up peaceful colelge protests and invited fascist MAGA mobs to attack minority students there.
The DNC and Biden do not protect minorities. They are white supremacists with just a bit more moderation to the means they employ, but they will absolutely resort to authoritarian crackdowns if they feel the minorities to step out of line by demanding justice and rights.
That's what you're doing when voting for Dems.
Yes, I see how you're protecting me when you elect the party that would arrest me for being a "Public Danger" because of the fact that I'm trans.
If you would get off your ass and gather support for a decent party this wouldn't be a problem.
Last I tried my Socialist Party USA chapter belittled me, called me a rape apologist, and refused to do anything for the local community outside of shaming people for wanting to vote out Trump by any means possible.
That sucks, i bet there's a more accepting party in your area for you. Try PSL or Green party
"Your lack of support for Democrats may end up empowering people who will throw me in jail just for who I am"
"Stop being lazy and go improve a better party"
You're entitled to your opinion dude, but you were a major dick here.
Your support of Dems is what prevents a real opposition to fascism.
Truth hurts, don't care.
Here's a brutal truth for you then. Being a raging, unapologetic jerk won't progress your political goals. It'll only make them harder to achieve.
Also, you're a fucking asshole.
My goal isn't to convince you, only show how you are wrong so people looking at this post will be influenced by it. Looking at your profile, you are too far gone.
No, you are an asshole.
Go educate yourself, and then you can join the adult discussions.
Oh the irony.
Agreed, hopefully someday you understand it.
Right, you should educate yourself.
What vulnerable people are dems going after?
If you don't know the answer to this already, I suppose the backlash against Biden from progressives might seem like bots or foreign propaganda.
I am starting to think so too.
Nope. I just understand democracy.
I feel like this reply is for someone else? We're both coming from a leftist position. Democrats only think they're being overrun with bots and propaganda because they aren't actually politically informed enough to know the valid reasons why people don't like them.
You're right, misread
Don't forget how Biden is being harder on immigration than Trump was but don't worry Biden is totally for minorities
The poor is the most clear. Also black people, just look at our prisons, and the crime bill Joe Biden wrote
Show me. Tell me how the party of Obama and Harris are going after them.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2021-10-13/report-highlights-staggering-racial-disparities-in-us-incarceration-rates
That's just prison stats. Nothing about what democrats are doing to make it worse
You should research cop cities. Atlanta democrats voted to fund theirs.
Proof?
Here's the press release from Atlanta.
And if you want to read an article about it, here's one from Time