Nato summit: Ukraine on 'irreversible path' to membership
bbc.com
Nato members have pledged their support for an "irreversible path" to future membership for Ukraine, as well as more aid.
While a formal timeline for it to join the military alliance was not agreed at a summit in Washington DC, the military alliance's 32 members said they had "unwavering" support for Ukraine's war effort.
Nato has also announced further integration with Ukraine's military and members have committed €40bn ($43.3bn, £33.7bn) in aid in the next year, including F-16 fighter jets and air defence support.
The bloc's Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said: "Support to Ukraine is not charity - it is in our own security interest."
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So? They are not forcing anyone to join. Unlike certain other countries
So then how should russia feel and respond to this?
Should anyone start invading when their feelings are getting hurt now?
How did the US feel when Cuba allowed russia to put weapons there? Let me answer the question; Kennedy threatened complete war and the destsruction of the world. Should the Soviets have put weapons in Cuba?
Sure, invade the US. Ukrain has nothing to do with it.
Cool, you didnt answer the question. The problem is that if you actually think about it for a second you will realize how this whole thing was directly caused by NATO/American interference. I am not infavor of countries invading but its not the "UNPROVOKED!!" bullshit line they keep repeating. This war was completely avoidable.
Disengage from Ukraine and stop invading countries.
They should feel that they lost the cold war and their kleptocracy isn't conductive to expanding their already reduced sphere of influence, so they better make peace with the fact.
Since they dont feel this and feel directly threatened, why should NATO/America keep pushing it till war?
'cause they can. There's no good guys in international politics, you can check out an history book to confirm that.
So are you going to be the one sent overseas to die in a country that most people dont care anything about?
you clearly aren't grokking what I'm trying to communicate
You are claiming that they can do what they want, but that is backed by boots on the ground. Is that going to be you, or are you going to force my children to fight your wars?
I don't see how it's necessary to explain what is there for everyone to see: they got Ukrainians fighting for them (well, and themselves as well), then if that's not enough, the closest NATO countries will probably get into it.
And when the war goes global or nuclear and the US sends troops overseas for you dumb war, are you going or are you going to try to force my kids to die for you instead?
Change your government then, I'm already overseas, relative to you (unless you're posting from Moscow).
Nobody forced Russia to invade. You're saying NATO expansion forced their hand, why? Just because they'd lose their vassal and they didn't want to. Life in Ukraine SUCKED, that's why Euromaidan happened; was it pushed by US agencies as well? Maybe, but still it wouldn't have happened if not for the massive corruption there, much of which was upheld by Russia, see their support for Yanukovych.
NATO didnt force them to invade but it highly encouraged it. Russia said that Ukraine was the bightest of red lines and we saw what happpened to georgia when they were trying to join nato. There is no good reason to have Ukraine in NATO it brings much much more trouble than its worth, but NATO did it anyways knowing that it was considered an existential danger by russia.
Ukraine wasn't entering NATO, it was seeking close ties to the EU.
And anyway it's a sovereign country, it can do whatever the hell it wants, they're not slaves to Russia.
By minding their own business? Why would they care?
The care because they believe it is a direct move of aggression and endangers their people. Why did the US care during the Cuban missile crisis?
The coup in 2014 was carried out by force.
Lmfao stfu Tankie.
It's a "coup" when I dislike it, and a glorious revolution when I do. /s
That's why the west calls it the "revolution of dignity" lol. Do you have any sense of self-awareness? Such dignity having the CIA up your ass to make your country more west-friendly.
Is what Ukrainians called it after countless of them were murdered by police in the streets and they successfully ran their Pro-Putin dictator out of the country. Seethe harder fascist.
The people of Iraq also welcomed the US as liberators.
Whataboutism
Not my fault you failed to understand the simple point that "the people" aren't a monolith and that narratives about what "the people" want aren't necessarily true. If, say, January 6th was a success, Trump and the rest of the fascists would be claiming that the storming of the capital was an expression of "the will of the people" to run the "democrat dictators out of office".
I'm perfectly aware of that, which is why you have to look at material conditions.
Oh look, Ukraine threw out the government that was literally shooting protestors, and Ukraine is no longer a Pro-Putin authoritarian state.
If a similar coup were to happen to Zelenskyy, do you think protestors would not be shot? Regardless, we'll see how long being a pro-west authoritarian state works. The west likes to pump and dump their supposed allies.
If you paid attention to Ukrainian politics any beyond the war you would know that protests in Ukraine have continued throughout the entirety of the war., that Union's and other NGO's that don't cooperate with Russia still function unhindered by the government, and that all non-Russian sponsored opposition parties still function legally.
But please tell me how that compares to Russia where all opposition to the government has been crushed, and where it's literally illegal to be gay publicly.
Shocking, protests and organizations that don't threaten the current power structure don't get violently cracked down. Just so you know, this isn't a thing specific to Ukrainian politics.
That's a really funny way of saying, "Don't work with and aid the country literally invading in a war of national survival"
I mean, have you ever been there? I have, it was incredibly corrupt, and this was AFTER 2014. it's not so unbelievable that people tried to enact a change...
The CIA paid a million people to stand out in the could for months on end? Whoa, where do they keep all these actors?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
I'm not doing your work for you tankie. Quote the part of the article that supports your thesis.
You all do this same thing, throw a book at someone and when they refuse to bow to your demand to waste their time you declare victory.
Arguments against the Orange Revolution being a coup:
The protests were sparked by widespread allegations of election fraud and corruption, which were supported by international observers and the Ukrainian opposition.
The protests were largely peaceful, with only a few instances of violence and property damage.
The Supreme Court of Ukraine annulled the election results, citing irregularities and fraud, and ordered a revote.
The new president, Viktor Yushchenko, was elected through a fair and transparent process, with international observers monitoring the election.
While there are valid arguments on both sides, the majority of evidence suggests that the Orange Revolution was a popular uprising rather than a coup. The protests were sparked by widespread discontent with the election results and the government’s handling of the election, and were largely driven by Ukrainian citizens rather than foreign powers. The Supreme Court’s decision to annul the election results was based on allegations of fraud and irregularities, and the subsequent election was monitored by international observers. Ultimately, the Orange Revolution was a significant event in Ukrainian history that led to the country’s transition towards democracy and closer ties with the West.
TL;DR Russia is poor af and everyone but American middle class settler tankies who live comfortably in the US want blue jeans and VW Jettas and not to suffer under the gangster oligopoly of Russia's petro state.
Tankies keep pretending that this isn't true because the US intelligence agencies opportunistically tipped the the unrest in Ukraine in their favor, just like Putin has done in ever country that is in his sphere.
Fun fact: Putin, the man that tankies slavishly uphold as a stalwart of US imperialism was himself installed into power by the CIA to keep Soviet candidates from taking back power through democratic election held after the first term of Boris Yeltsin was about to be ended, which he was almost assuredly going to lose.
Tankies continue to be played like a Switch by western intelligence and it will ultimately lead to Russia's demise. All their accusations of everyone being western stooges is PURE F***ING PROJECTION
Sir, you asked for a quote from the article.
Then you have nothing to worry about 👍
First you intentionally make the dumbest interpretation of how a situation can occur, then when I post an article that shows exactly how something like this goes down, you call me a name, refuse to read, and revel in your ignorance. A simple article is not a book. Operations to subvert politics in a country take many years, even decades, and the article talks about US operations to interfere in the politics of Ukraine. Do you think you can make the connection between that and what happened around a decade after that article was written or is this too difficult for you?
No you threw a link at me and expecting me to strain out whatever point you were trying to make. And you still won't do the simple act of concisely presenting whatever you think proves you right. Instead you caterwaul for two paragraphs worth of text.
It's probably because you're trying to walk me to your point of view and the article really doesn't contain the definitive proof you think it does.
All you ML propaganda tactics are predicated on deception which you justify by saying it's for the revolution.
Your praxis does not work in the information age where anyone can fact check your biased premise.
And yes I'm well aware that western governments foment decent artificially. That doesn't prove anything about the euromadien protests. We all know if there were some ML uprising you would not accept the idea that it was BS because western govs do velvet revolutions. Before you say that doesn't happen Lenin him fucking self was smuggled out of Europe by Anglo bourgeoisie to overthrow the Czar.
In the time it took you to write that nonsense whiny post, you could've just read the article. I explained it to you anyway, in a post shorter than the one you typed, but you melted down anyway.
Even if thats true (spoiler, it isnt) there have been plenty of free, internationally recognized (not just by the west), elections since them.