No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists.
No one hates vegans, but everyone loves to post vegan hate or idiotic "bacon" posts.
Of all the delicious meats to be obsessed about, redditbros went and picked one of the least appealing ones and decided to make it their entire personality 💀
For real. I've been vegetarian for a few years now and of all the things I kind of miss, not once has bacon been even a slight craving. A good kebab on the other hand...
The vast majority of people love bacon and bacon memes and jokes are part of the mainstream culture. Do you accommodate non-vegans? Why do you expect them to accommodate you?
Do you accommodate non-vegans?
That's because they don't consider non-veganism a morally acceptable option.
As a thought experiment, pick any action that you would personally find morally repugnant and ask yourself if you should accommodate people who do that action.
Precisely. They make the same mistake that all extremists make. They believe that they are morally superior which justifies anything they say or do to anyone they see as inferior. The problem is that the rest of the world does not agree with them so they are reviled for their antisocial behaviour then constantly whine about how the people they harangue treat them badly.
Just because the rest of the world doesn't agree with them doesn't mean they're wrong, though. Societal norms progress with splinter groups that are willing to put their convictions above group conformity. The process is always unpleasant.
Yup, that's exactly the mistake that extremists make. There is a great quote from a judgement out of a court in the UK. Let me find it...
“But the plain fact is that each of you has some time ago crossed the line from concerned campaigner to fanatic. You have appointed yourselves as the sole arbiters of what should be done about climate change, bound neither by the principles of democracy nor the rule of law.
“And your fanaticism makes you entirely heedless of the rights of your fellow citizens. You have taken it upon yourselves to decide that your fellow citizens must suffer disruption and harm, and how much disruption and harm they must suffer, simply so that you may parade your views.”
This really sums it up. Sometimes fanatics are right. Often, they are wrong. Their ability to self-absolve their abhorent antisocial behavior is why so many people so violently hate them and it's the reason that many vegans feel like they are being painted with the same brush. They've appointed themselves holy crusaders who will bully, harass, and intimidate anyone who doesn't agree with them.
Yet without the radicals that are willing to rock the boat, our society would be morally stagnant and unable to progress. We're literally having the conservative/progressive debate.
I assume the case you're referring to is the recent Just Stop Oil case? I personally see the judge's decision as incredibly short sighted. He's put short term convenience above averting global catastrophe for all life on earth. In my view, it is he who has caused his fellow citizens harm, and on a much wider scale.
Self-absolution. I understand it but it is a logical failure.
Should anti-LGBTQ fanatics who are absolutely convinced that they are morally superior be able to discriminate against LQBTQ people?
Should anti-abotionists who are absolutely convinced that they are morally superior be able to harass and threaten women making the most difficult decision of their life? Should they be allowed to fire bomb clinics? Shoot abortion doctors and nurses?
Should white spremacists who are absolutely convinced of their racial superiority be allowed to refuse service to people of color? Burn crosses on lawns? Hang people of color from trees by the neck?
Where does the vegan fanatics self-absolution end? Fire bombing restaurant? Pipe bombs wrapped in nails in crowded restaurants that serve meat?
The ability to self-absolve is very VERY dangerous. It permits fanatics to justify any ammoral horror in the name of their mistaken moral purity.
Except you can say this literal exact thing about the opposites too
Should black people have just stayed slaves and not have rights even though "they are absolutely convinced they should have"? Should us queer people never fight back and fight for acceptance? Etc etc.
The actual difference is the arguments for the specific position. What sound arguments are there for racism and slavery? What sound arguments are there for queer-phobia? What sound arguments are there for not following a vegan diet beyond "it tastes good"?
Where does the vegan fanatics self-absolution end? Fire bombing restaurant? Pipe bombs wrapped in nails in crowded restaurants that serve meat?
Usually it ends at the terrifying act of talking with people, because harming them would be explicitly against their own philosophy.
But yeah, it's totally like a jihad or something.
That's self-serving nonsense. Vegan extremists have been harassing and intimidating restaurateurs and their patrons attempting to drive them out of business or to comply with their demands to stop serving meat. That is not, "the terrifying act of talking".
What if you're mistaken about being morally superior? What if your actions toward other humans demonstrate a complete lack of any morality?
Profiting off the suffering of others isn't acceptable behavior. Establishments that do so should be boycotted where possible and practicable. I think protest is a justified response.
Given two scenarios where I'm potentially wrong, the one where I'm mistaken and vegan is the one with a substantially more ethical outcome than the one where I'm mistaken and not vegan.
I wish that was true (and I'm not even vegan) but there are many outspoken anti-vegans. But then again they're the types who will always find an out group to denigrate (in before someone oh-so-cleverly points out I'm doing the same to them).
I think that you will find that these anti-vegans are reacting to the behaviour of the extremist.
I don't disagree, but then they'll apply their hatred to the whole (or at least majority) of the group
That, unfortunately, is how it goes. If the only vegans that most people deal with are the obnoxious assholes then they assume that every vegan is an obnoxious asshole.
The community of non-vegans is a lot bigger than that of the vegans. So vegans do something that gets a reaction, you are much more likely to hear that reaction than the original thing.
They're easy to hate - They're weird, eat funny foods, care about things nobody else does (who cares about chickens) and my god is there a subset of them that are the most truly obnoxious human beings (a statement that is, conveniently, true of every single group of humans). They're basically furries for the non-internet crowd. Nobody ever interacts with them to know it, so they get defined by the strawmen people create of them.
Edit: It's possible my explanation of why vegans are disliked has touched a nerve. To clarify; I don't think this, hell I eat vegan meals most of the time, but these are the qualities given to the Strawman Vegan that everyone onlines seems to love to hate. (I also quite like furries.)
The cause has been tainted by the extremists, to the point where even some vegans are being pushed away from the movement.
Of course, the ones that are on a niche media platform, in a community dedicated to veganism, are likely to be the nutter ones.
Yikes. You know, vegans are targeted by the extremely wealthy & powerful meat & dairy industries who spend untold fortunes making the vegan lifestyle look as unappealing and "crazy" as possible?
I mean, I'm sure you're galaxy brain is impervious to propaganda and everything, I'm just saying, you're painting with an awfully broad brush.
That's getting a bit tinfoil hat, don't you think?
Or its tracing the money and influence of different lobbies in America. Just look at the original gerrymandered food pyramid made to accommodate the dairy industry. Or lawsuits against plant based alternatives.
I think the cause has been tainted by the rampant propagandizing and demonization across all forms of media that the movement has been subjected to. You're doing it now, even - what the hell even is an "extremist vegan"?
Extreme vegans are the people who stand outside restaurants, grocery stores, butcher shops, etc. and yell at people just trying to go about their lives calling them carnists, corpose munchers, blood mouths, animal torturers, and talk about murdering animals (murder is the killing of one human by another) or eating cadavers (a cadaver is a dead human body.) They don't simply go about their lives living their best vegan life but harass and harangue people. They do the same thing online.
You should read the post the vegan@lemmy.world mods made in response to the admin actions. Phrases like "carnist Lemmy admin", as if that's the reason they didn't like the idea of starving a cat.
There was also a comment saying Vegan should be a protected belief, like other religions.
It's not a conspiracy by the meat and dairy industry.
A carnist lemmy world instance admin has stepped in and meatsplained to the mods
It's difficult to take people like this seriously.
who cares about chickens
Most people. Anyone who isn't a psychopath cares to some extent about animals, vegan or non-vegan
I hate chickens. They're loud, obnoxious, and they kill and eat each other. That doesn't mean that I'm going to abuse them. I take good care of my chickens despite the fact that they're assholes.
They’re loud, obnoxious, and they kill and eat each other.
They're just like us! 😌
Pretty much.
I think it's funny how quickly the outspoken anti-vegan types deliver the "I actually think it's ok to torture animals" completely unprompted
Can you find me a sample of someone saying, "I actually thing it's ok to torture animals"? I'd be intersted to see that if it's actually happening. Or, are you creating a straw man?
Literally that post's grandparent, which is the subject of that post?
Can you link me to the place where it says these words?
"I actually think it's ok to torture animals"
Your honor, my client never explicitly said the words "I'm requesting a bribe".
This is the reason that people hate vegan extremists.
I had a pet chicken in elementary school. She was a sweetheart.
I see a lot more vegan hate than vegans.
No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists.
No one hates vegans, but everyone loves to post vegan hate or idiotic "bacon" posts.
Of all the delicious meats to be obsessed about, redditbros went and picked one of the least appealing ones and decided to make it their entire personality 💀
For real. I've been vegetarian for a few years now and of all the things I kind of miss, not once has bacon been even a slight craving. A good kebab on the other hand...
The vast majority of people love bacon and bacon memes and jokes are part of the mainstream culture. Do you accommodate non-vegans? Why do you expect them to accommodate you?
That's because they don't consider non-veganism a morally acceptable option.
As a thought experiment, pick any action that you would personally find morally repugnant and ask yourself if you should accommodate people who do that action.
Precisely. They make the same mistake that all extremists make. They believe that they are morally superior which justifies anything they say or do to anyone they see as inferior. The problem is that the rest of the world does not agree with them so they are reviled for their antisocial behaviour then constantly whine about how the people they harangue treat them badly.
Just because the rest of the world doesn't agree with them doesn't mean they're wrong, though. Societal norms progress with splinter groups that are willing to put their convictions above group conformity. The process is always unpleasant.
Yup, that's exactly the mistake that extremists make. There is a great quote from a judgement out of a court in the UK. Let me find it...
“But the plain fact is that each of you has some time ago crossed the line from concerned campaigner to fanatic. You have appointed yourselves as the sole arbiters of what should be done about climate change, bound neither by the principles of democracy nor the rule of law.
“And your fanaticism makes you entirely heedless of the rights of your fellow citizens. You have taken it upon yourselves to decide that your fellow citizens must suffer disruption and harm, and how much disruption and harm they must suffer, simply so that you may parade your views.”
This really sums it up. Sometimes fanatics are right. Often, they are wrong. Their ability to self-absolve their abhorent antisocial behavior is why so many people so violently hate them and it's the reason that many vegans feel like they are being painted with the same brush. They've appointed themselves holy crusaders who will bully, harass, and intimidate anyone who doesn't agree with them.
Yet without the radicals that are willing to rock the boat, our society would be morally stagnant and unable to progress. We're literally having the conservative/progressive debate.
I assume the case you're referring to is the recent Just Stop Oil case? I personally see the judge's decision as incredibly short sighted. He's put short term convenience above averting global catastrophe for all life on earth. In my view, it is he who has caused his fellow citizens harm, and on a much wider scale.
Self-absolution. I understand it but it is a logical failure.
Should anti-LGBTQ fanatics who are absolutely convinced that they are morally superior be able to discriminate against LQBTQ people?
Should anti-abotionists who are absolutely convinced that they are morally superior be able to harass and threaten women making the most difficult decision of their life? Should they be allowed to fire bomb clinics? Shoot abortion doctors and nurses?
Should white spremacists who are absolutely convinced of their racial superiority be allowed to refuse service to people of color? Burn crosses on lawns? Hang people of color from trees by the neck?
Where does the vegan fanatics self-absolution end? Fire bombing restaurant? Pipe bombs wrapped in nails in crowded restaurants that serve meat?
The ability to self-absolve is very VERY dangerous. It permits fanatics to justify any ammoral horror in the name of their mistaken moral purity.
Except you can say this literal exact thing about the opposites too
Should black people have just stayed slaves and not have rights even though "they are absolutely convinced they should have"? Should us queer people never fight back and fight for acceptance? Etc etc.
The actual difference is the arguments for the specific position. What sound arguments are there for racism and slavery? What sound arguments are there for queer-phobia? What sound arguments are there for not following a vegan diet beyond "it tastes good"?
Usually it ends at the terrifying act of talking with people, because harming them would be explicitly against their own philosophy.
But yeah, it's totally like a jihad or something.
That's self-serving nonsense. Vegan extremists have been harassing and intimidating restaurateurs and their patrons attempting to drive them out of business or to comply with their demands to stop serving meat. That is not, "the terrifying act of talking".
What if you're mistaken about being morally superior? What if your actions toward other humans demonstrate a complete lack of any morality?
Profiting off the suffering of others isn't acceptable behavior. Establishments that do so should be boycotted where possible and practicable. I think protest is a justified response.
Given two scenarios where I'm potentially wrong, the one where I'm mistaken and vegan is the one with a substantially more ethical outcome than the one where I'm mistaken and not vegan.
I wish that was true (and I'm not even vegan) but there are many outspoken anti-vegans. But then again they're the types who will always find an out group to denigrate (in before someone oh-so-cleverly points out I'm doing the same to them).
I think that you will find that these anti-vegans are reacting to the behaviour of the extremist.
I don't disagree, but then they'll apply their hatred to the whole (or at least majority) of the group
That, unfortunately, is how it goes. If the only vegans that most people deal with are the obnoxious assholes then they assume that every vegan is an obnoxious asshole.
The community of non-vegans is a lot bigger than that of the vegans. So vegans do something that gets a reaction, you are much more likely to hear that reaction than the original thing.
They're easy to hate - They're weird, eat funny foods, care about things nobody else does (who cares about chickens) and my god is there a subset of them that are the most truly obnoxious human beings (a statement that is, conveniently, true of every single group of humans). They're basically furries for the non-internet crowd. Nobody ever interacts with them to know it, so they get defined by the strawmen people create of them.
Edit: It's possible my explanation of why vegans are disliked has touched a nerve. To clarify; I don't think this, hell I eat vegan meals most of the time, but these are the qualities given to the Strawman Vegan that everyone onlines seems to love to hate. (I also quite like furries.)
The cause has been tainted by the extremists, to the point where even some vegans are being pushed away from the movement.
Of course, the ones that are on a niche media platform, in a community dedicated to veganism, are likely to be the nutter ones.
Yikes. You know, vegans are targeted by the extremely wealthy & powerful meat & dairy industries who spend untold fortunes making the vegan lifestyle look as unappealing and "crazy" as possible?
I mean, I'm sure you're galaxy brain is impervious to propaganda and everything, I'm just saying, you're painting with an awfully broad brush.
That's getting a bit tinfoil hat, don't you think?
Or its tracing the money and influence of different lobbies in America. Just look at the original gerrymandered food pyramid made to accommodate the dairy industry. Or lawsuits against plant based alternatives.
I think the cause has been tainted by the rampant propagandizing and demonization across all forms of media that the movement has been subjected to. You're doing it now, even - what the hell even is an "extremist vegan"?
Extreme vegans are the people who stand outside restaurants, grocery stores, butcher shops, etc. and yell at people just trying to go about their lives calling them carnists, corpose munchers, blood mouths, animal torturers, and talk about murdering animals (murder is the killing of one human by another) or eating cadavers (a cadaver is a dead human body.) They don't simply go about their lives living their best vegan life but harass and harangue people. They do the same thing online.
You should read the post the vegan@lemmy.world mods made in response to the admin actions. Phrases like "carnist Lemmy admin", as if that's the reason they didn't like the idea of starving a cat.
There was also a comment saying Vegan should be a protected belief, like other religions.
It's not a conspiracy by the meat and dairy industry.
It's difficult to take people like this seriously.
Most people. Anyone who isn't a psychopath cares to some extent about animals, vegan or non-vegan
I hate chickens. They're loud, obnoxious, and they kill and eat each other. That doesn't mean that I'm going to abuse them. I take good care of my chickens despite the fact that they're assholes.
They're just like us! 😌
Pretty much.
I think it's funny how quickly the outspoken anti-vegan types deliver the "I actually think it's ok to torture animals" completely unprompted
Can you find me a sample of someone saying, "I actually thing it's ok to torture animals"? I'd be intersted to see that if it's actually happening. Or, are you creating a straw man?
Literally that post's grandparent, which is the subject of that post?
Can you link me to the place where it says these words?
"I actually think it's ok to torture animals"
Your honor, my client never explicitly said the words "I'm requesting a bribe".
This is the reason that people hate vegan extremists.
I had a pet chicken in elementary school. She was a sweetheart.