In case anyone was wondering, Pocketpair has already announced they're going to fight Nintendo.
Unlike a certain other company that folded like a coward in 2 days after a simple C&D letter, took their money and ran.
Lol this is hilarious. "Coward". Have you ever looked down the barrel of an enterprise legal team, and seen just the opening bill to defend team? I haven't, but I'm aware that it is a huge and expensive endeavor and "bravery" has nothing to do with it.
You mean what Pocketpair is doing right now? They're both businesses who should have known they would come up against Nintendo at some point.
Pocket pair has money. Pal world was a smash hit and sold millions of copies and they could still be buried under legal fees by a behemoth like Nintendo via bullshit like repeated appeals
Edit: in the us at least, not sure if this is suit is in Japan only, seems it was filed in tokyo. See the downfall of gawker for a US example
The claims are very different.
I'm not moving the goalposts here, it's critical to the situation and was always available information.
It's not cowardice to refuse to fight a completely unwinnable battle. You only fight if you can win something. Otherwise, take the inevitable loss and spend the resources elsewhere.
It wasn't completely unwinnable, it was legally untested waters and could have gone either way, had they fought and won they would have even set a precedent for future emulation projects.
This wasn't some 2 person team project. It was a company with real money that could have fought and laid the foundation for the future safety of emulation. And because they were a company all liability laid with the company with no personal liability risk to the founders. But they didn't, they settled in less than 2 days, tucked tail and ran with the remaining money.
Cowards.
Who did that? I forgot
Yuzu, and before any of their apologists come on here, they were a company that reportedly had millions in the bank and could have fought.
Yuzu were scuzzy as fuck. There's a thread in /r/emulation where one of their members admits to the project stealing code from Ryujinx and then whines like a little baby over getting called out on it, claiming that it's okay to steal open-source code without attribution.
What's millions to Nintendo? Yuzu's a business at it's core. they are designed to make money
So is Pocketpair.
Right and their current assessment (from their legal team) clearly is that they have a case to defend themselves.
Yuzu, based on their actions, determined they didn't.
Edit as such, spending the money would have been just burning it.
It's not bravery
It was less than 2 days that Yuzu made their announcement. They didn't carefully consider shit, they had their exit plan in case Nintendo came knocking and it was to run for the hills like cowards wasting the opportunity to set a real precedent and possibly protecting the future of other emulation projects.
And they were a company, all liability rested with the company, not the people running it, so they could have easily run it into the ground fighting and then went "whoopsy" and declared bankruptcy like so many companies have done
They were cowards.
Blatantly incorrect. They jumped on the sword to protect a legal precedent concerning emulation.
If the courts had ruled in favor of Nintendo, guess what? That means ALL emulators are on the chopping block. All of them. They knew.
Once you have case history to back you up, it becomes a domino effect.
This has absolutely nothing to do with cowardice.
Right. If the company keeps their money, they have money, for money things. Like giving the staff money, to make others products for money.
If they stack all their money, shove it up a lawyer's ass, and send them waddling in the Nintendo front door, they apparently have bravery, but, alas, no money.
It would be poor leadership to "go into the ground".
Oh yeaaaa they had a whole patreon pulling in like 50k a month right? Wild
nintendo and friends are out of line. Undisclosed patents being infringed sounds bullshit, and game patents are even more bullshit. tony hawk isn't the only skating game. cod isn't the only shooting game. Pokémon and palworld certainly aren't the only creature capture and exploit for human benefit games.
Hope they get mowed down.
Which one?
Shittendo obviously
Just checking haha
Either strike right after release or don't strike at all. Palworld was already starting to lose steam. Nintendo is doing a Streisand effect.
Fuck Nintendo but they do have a point here. You can only get so far with artistic inspiration until it becomes straight up plagiarism.
They are suing over a patent though (ie, a technology). What you are talking about is a copyright suit.
Unfortunately we don’t know what patents Nintendo is suing over. And I struggle to think of a patent issue that would generate a good faith claim.
Yes, from I've read they haven't quoted any specific patent to anyone. They don't have good grounds, they just want it shut down.
Looks like it's over the game mechanics of 'releasing a creature into a 3d environment and having it perform a contextual task' & 'having a rideable mount switch to a different rideable mount depending on terrain'
I don't think either of these would work in the US, because you can't protect game mechanics here, but I'm not sure about Japan's take.
Edit: I missed that this was still under speculation at the time of the post:
Based on searching of Japanese patent databases, initial speculation is that these may include (but is not necessarily limited to) patents relating to game mechanics and gameplay features from Pokémon: Legends Arceus, and may include patents such as one for throwing and using Poké Balls in a 3D space (JP,2023-092953,A); and one for automatically switching between ride Pokémon as a player transitions between different terrain, such as between air and the ground (JP,2023-092954,A).
They haven't actually said what the alleged infringement is yet, so we can't know for sure what excuse they're going to come up with. They haven't even told Pocketpair!
You are correct, I missed that it was still under speculation.
Kinda wild that you could patent a super basic mechanic that pretty much anyone could come up with
Pocketpair has a pretty good case against Nintendo here, I think, because other games have used these things before.
I know it was never actually released, but Scalebound had a mechanic that would have allowed a player to tell their dragon to perform a task, albeit, usually destructively.
Guild Wars 2 Added a mechanic years ago that let players traverse water and land by automatically a switching between mounts.
'Releasing' a creature into a 3d environment has been done by every minion-mancer class in an MMO since the dawn of the genre.
Okay they need to lose that first one wtf.
Presumably, since Nintendo isn't claiming copyright infringement, Palworld hasn't crossed the line of plagiarism. They are all legally distinct designs.
It doesn't resemble plagiarism in any way.
They are fully entitled to imitate the art style.
I don't agree with that at all - that's how art works. You take ideas and techniques and copy them, adding your own twist in the process. Art is about more than the aesthetic - the backstory is what gives it value. Stealing that is plagiarism, everything else is artistic inspiration... If you add nothing new you've made a cheap knockoff, which is very different from plagiarism
Palworld has its own lore, its own type system, its own battle mechanics, and as far as gameplay it's nothing like Pokemon. All it has in common is many creatures you capture in a ball, with designs largely based on IRL animals and Japanese folklore. They've made something new no matter how you slice it
In case anyone was wondering, Pocketpair has already announced they're going to fight Nintendo.
Unlike a certain other company that folded like a coward in 2 days after a simple C&D letter, took their money and ran.
Lol this is hilarious. "Coward". Have you ever looked down the barrel of an enterprise legal team, and seen just the opening bill to defend team? I haven't, but I'm aware that it is a huge and expensive endeavor and "bravery" has nothing to do with it.
You mean what Pocketpair is doing right now? They're both businesses who should have known they would come up against Nintendo at some point.
Pocket pair has money. Pal world was a smash hit and sold millions of copies and they could still be buried under legal fees by a behemoth like Nintendo via bullshit like repeated appeals
Edit: in the us at least, not sure if this is suit is in Japan only, seems it was filed in tokyo. See the downfall of gawker for a US example
The claims are very different. I'm not moving the goalposts here, it's critical to the situation and was always available information.
It's not cowardice to refuse to fight a completely unwinnable battle. You only fight if you can win something. Otherwise, take the inevitable loss and spend the resources elsewhere.
It wasn't completely unwinnable, it was legally untested waters and could have gone either way, had they fought and won they would have even set a precedent for future emulation projects.
This wasn't some 2 person team project. It was a company with real money that could have fought and laid the foundation for the future safety of emulation. And because they were a company all liability laid with the company with no personal liability risk to the founders. But they didn't, they settled in less than 2 days, tucked tail and ran with the remaining money.
Cowards.
Who did that? I forgot
Yuzu, and before any of their apologists come on here, they were a company that reportedly had millions in the bank and could have fought.
Yuzu were scuzzy as fuck. There's a thread in /r/emulation where one of their members admits to the project stealing code from Ryujinx and then whines like a little baby over getting called out on it, claiming that it's okay to steal open-source code without attribution.
Could you link it?
https://np.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/ljxnvi/yuzu_stole_code/gnh6mp1/
What's millions to Nintendo? Yuzu's a business at it's core. they are designed to make money
So is Pocketpair.
Right and their current assessment (from their legal team) clearly is that they have a case to defend themselves.
Yuzu, based on their actions, determined they didn't.
Edit as such, spending the money would have been just burning it.
It's not bravery
It was less than 2 days that Yuzu made their announcement. They didn't carefully consider shit, they had their exit plan in case Nintendo came knocking and it was to run for the hills like cowards wasting the opportunity to set a real precedent and possibly protecting the future of other emulation projects.
And they were a company, all liability rested with the company, not the people running it, so they could have easily run it into the ground fighting and then went "whoopsy" and declared bankruptcy like so many companies have done
They were cowards.
Blatantly incorrect. They jumped on the sword to protect a legal precedent concerning emulation.
If the courts had ruled in favor of Nintendo, guess what? That means ALL emulators are on the chopping block. All of them. They knew.
Once you have case history to back you up, it becomes a domino effect.
This has absolutely nothing to do with cowardice.
Right. If the company keeps their money, they have money, for money things. Like giving the staff money, to make others products for money.
If they stack all their money, shove it up a lawyer's ass, and send them waddling in the Nintendo front door, they apparently have bravery, but, alas, no money.
It would be poor leadership to "go into the ground".
Oh yeaaaa they had a whole patreon pulling in like 50k a month right? Wild
nintendo and friends are out of line. Undisclosed patents being infringed sounds bullshit, and game patents are even more bullshit. tony hawk isn't the only skating game. cod isn't the only shooting game. Pokémon and palworld certainly aren't the only creature capture and exploit for human benefit games.
Hope they get mowed down.
Which one?
Shittendo obviously
Just checking haha
Either strike right after release or don't strike at all. Palworld was already starting to lose steam. Nintendo is doing a Streisand effect.
Fuck Nintendo but they do have a point here. You can only get so far with artistic inspiration until it becomes straight up plagiarism.
They are suing over a patent though (ie, a technology). What you are talking about is a copyright suit.
Unfortunately we don’t know what patents Nintendo is suing over. And I struggle to think of a patent issue that would generate a good faith claim.
Yes, from I've read they haven't quoted any specific patent to anyone. They don't have good grounds, they just want it shut down.
Looks like it's over the game mechanics of 'releasing a creature into a 3d environment and having it perform a contextual task' & 'having a rideable mount switch to a different rideable mount depending on terrain'I don't think either of these would work in the US, because you can't protect game mechanics here, but I'm not sure about Japan's take.Edit: I missed that this was still under speculation at the time of the post:
https://bulbagarden.net/threads/nintendo-and-the-pokemon-company-jointly-file-lawsuit-for-patent-infringement-against-palworld-creator-pocketpair-inc-in-the-tokyo-district-court.303354/
They haven't actually said what the alleged infringement is yet, so we can't know for sure what excuse they're going to come up with. They haven't even told Pocketpair!
You are correct, I missed that it was still under speculation.
Kinda wild that you could patent a super basic mechanic that pretty much anyone could come up with
Pocketpair has a pretty good case against Nintendo here, I think, because other games have used these things before.
I know it was never actually released, but Scalebound had a mechanic that would have allowed a player to tell their dragon to perform a task, albeit, usually destructively.
Guild Wars 2 Added a mechanic years ago that let players traverse water and land by automatically a switching between mounts.
'Releasing' a creature into a 3d environment has been done by every minion-mancer class in an MMO since the dawn of the genre.
Okay they need to lose that first one wtf.
Presumably, since Nintendo isn't claiming copyright infringement, Palworld hasn't crossed the line of plagiarism. They are all legally distinct designs.
It doesn't resemble plagiarism in any way.
They are fully entitled to imitate the art style.
I don't agree with that at all - that's how art works. You take ideas and techniques and copy them, adding your own twist in the process. Art is about more than the aesthetic - the backstory is what gives it value. Stealing that is plagiarism, everything else is artistic inspiration... If you add nothing new you've made a cheap knockoff, which is very different from plagiarism
Palworld has its own lore, its own type system, its own battle mechanics, and as far as gameplay it's nothing like Pokemon. All it has in common is many creatures you capture in a ball, with designs largely based on IRL animals and Japanese folklore. They've made something new no matter how you slice it