Not a taboo at all. We're not going to say it, but not a taboo
Imagine if people proposed organizing a Colored State in apartheid South Africa.
Like they cannot even conceive that Israelis could live in peace with the people they oppress.
People did propose organizing a colored state in apartheid South Africa. More specifically, a white-colored state, which I suppose would inherently make the rest of South Africa the colored state.
There are still white South Africans practicing segregation, with a two-state solution as their goal.
I would have much preferred a one-state solution in Israel with equal rights granted to every Palestinian, but with the way the conflict has developed at this point, I don't think Israelis can peacefully coexist with Palestinians, the former of which have shown they cannot stop oppressing people and the latter of which are understandably out for vengeance.
So basically you’re saying Israelis are too racist to live in peace with Palestinians?
I would say probably. Not that the average Israeli actively demands the deaths of Palestinians, but that I don't see a scenario anymore where the majority of Israelis would be willing to acknowledge the Palestinians as equals.
The reality is both communities feel the same about each other.
And I take it you speak as a person living in both communities with deep ties to both, and not as a random American that couldn't place Gaza on the map a year ago?
I lived in Haifa for two years. I can speak more than 99% of Lemmy on this topic. But you don't need to live there to know that the PLO has put a Fatwa on every Jew killed. The stance of Palestinians on this is all public knowledge. It's not like it's some big secret.
Yes. They are. Anyone who’s ever been to Israel will be able to confirm this.
It would be so interesting to know what would have happened if south africa got divided like that.
It's possible they could, but it's risky to count on, the history of countries where very different groups who hate eachother have been forced into one country, generally in post colonial states, is full of examples of the situation devolving into civil war and genocide. The two state solution is by no means ideal, but at least in the short term, I think it would stand a better chance of stopping at least the worst of the violence so that things can calm down in the region.
Otoh, dividing places into arbitrary multiple states has also led to multiple wars and conflicts all the over world, from Pakistan and Afghanistan to basically all of Africa and Israel itself. Israel would just keep oppressing the Palestinian state as the world has already shown they're more on their side. The South African solution would be way better here.
A one state solution would be nice but neither party would be amenable to it. Right now, Israel believes -and justifiably- that the Palestinian community is out to wipe out every Jew in existence. This is attested by the multiple fatwas put out, the policy directed by the PLO and the barrage of rockets and attacks by Hamas that has never stopped. So good lunch trying to convince Israel. On the other hand, no Palestinian wants to live as a minority in a state governed by Israel.
White people in South Africa were afraid of the same thing. It's not like the ANC was opposed to violence. It would take some international cooperation, but it could work. It requires a Constitution guaranteeing equal rights to all. That means everyone gets votes and human rights. Palestinians wouldn't live as a minority in a state governed by Israel, it would be governed by both Israelis and Palestinians together. Palestinians are generally fine with that, especially if the alternative is genocide or ethnic cleansing.
Now, Israeli definitely doesn't want this, they've already made laws clarifying Israel as a state that is purely Jewish in nature, but removing the ethno character of the state would be necessary for peace in the future. Admittedly, it would require pressure on Israel from outside forces to get them to that point, but I bet if the US would cut all those billions in aid they'd agree to it.
Israel was attacked multiple times in the past well before current events. At this point I would answer - not in the nearest future - too much blood on both sides. Can you incision organizations like Hamas removing destruction of Israel (genocide) from their main goals?
Not a taboo at all. We're not going to say it, but not a taboo
Imagine if people proposed organizing a Colored State in apartheid South Africa.
Like they cannot even conceive that Israelis could live in peace with the people they oppress.
People did propose organizing a colored state in apartheid South Africa. More specifically, a white-colored state, which I suppose would inherently make the rest of South Africa the colored state.
There are still white South Africans practicing segregation, with a two-state solution as their goal.
I would have much preferred a one-state solution in Israel with equal rights granted to every Palestinian, but with the way the conflict has developed at this point, I don't think Israelis can peacefully coexist with Palestinians, the former of which have shown they cannot stop oppressing people and the latter of which are understandably out for vengeance.
So basically you’re saying Israelis are too racist to live in peace with Palestinians?
I would say probably. Not that the average Israeli actively demands the deaths of Palestinians, but that I don't see a scenario anymore where the majority of Israelis would be willing to acknowledge the Palestinians as equals.
The reality is both communities feel the same about each other.
And I take it you speak as a person living in both communities with deep ties to both, and not as a random American that couldn't place Gaza on the map a year ago?
I lived in Haifa for two years. I can speak more than 99% of Lemmy on this topic. But you don't need to live there to know that the PLO has put a Fatwa on every Jew killed. The stance of Palestinians on this is all public knowledge. It's not like it's some big secret.
Yes. They are. Anyone who’s ever been to Israel will be able to confirm this.
It would be so interesting to know what would have happened if south africa got divided like that.
It's possible they could, but it's risky to count on, the history of countries where very different groups who hate eachother have been forced into one country, generally in post colonial states, is full of examples of the situation devolving into civil war and genocide. The two state solution is by no means ideal, but at least in the short term, I think it would stand a better chance of stopping at least the worst of the violence so that things can calm down in the region.
Otoh, dividing places into arbitrary multiple states has also led to multiple wars and conflicts all the over world, from Pakistan and Afghanistan to basically all of Africa and Israel itself. Israel would just keep oppressing the Palestinian state as the world has already shown they're more on their side. The South African solution would be way better here.
A one state solution would be nice but neither party would be amenable to it. Right now, Israel believes -and justifiably- that the Palestinian community is out to wipe out every Jew in existence. This is attested by the multiple fatwas put out, the policy directed by the PLO and the barrage of rockets and attacks by Hamas that has never stopped. So good lunch trying to convince Israel. On the other hand, no Palestinian wants to live as a minority in a state governed by Israel.
White people in South Africa were afraid of the same thing. It's not like the ANC was opposed to violence. It would take some international cooperation, but it could work. It requires a Constitution guaranteeing equal rights to all. That means everyone gets votes and human rights. Palestinians wouldn't live as a minority in a state governed by Israel, it would be governed by both Israelis and Palestinians together. Palestinians are generally fine with that, especially if the alternative is genocide or ethnic cleansing.
Now, Israeli definitely doesn't want this, they've already made laws clarifying Israel as a state that is purely Jewish in nature, but removing the ethno character of the state would be necessary for peace in the future. Admittedly, it would require pressure on Israel from outside forces to get them to that point, but I bet if the US would cut all those billions in aid they'd agree to it.
Israel was attacked multiple times in the past well before current events. At this point I would answer - not in the nearest future - too much blood on both sides. Can you incision organizations like Hamas removing destruction of Israel (genocide) from their main goals?
Wow so brave. "People are allowed to speak about something different than only an Apartheids state existing".
It took him long enough to finally agree