Any historic precedent for a country applying massive austerity measures during times of poverty, which has then "bounced back"?
Translation: we must kill the poor so that we can be rich.
No one is talking about how these extreme austerity measures will affect the most vulnerable people
Children lose very measurable nueral brain growth you don't get back if malnourished in the beginning. We're literally making a new class of measurably different human...
No. Plenty of evidence of it crashing systems and worsening recessions from the Great Depression though, compared to spending programs like the New Deal.
That said, there isn't a Great Depression, at the moment. Selling off public assets to foreign neocolonialists will produce short term benefits...
For their new oligarchy, since ancaps sure as fuck aren't reinvesting those funds into public education and infrastructure.
Um, i suppose you could apply the effect of the black plague on middle ages europe.
Estimated to have killed 1/3 of all people. There was a subsequent rise in wages/worker bargaining power attributed to the lack of labour supply.
I suppose thats an example of rock bottom and coming back with some benefit.
I wouldn't call it 'bouncing' back though, more like struggling on with a sliver of silver on those grey clouds. Not an adviseable course for a country to take.
I see it like sand in a sand timer that's been tipped. We get little crests and collapses cycles as the whole structure shifts and grows.
Good illustrative example.
I'm always hesitant to assume growth will always reassert itself in the end though. You know the old saying, 'past performance is not an indicator of future performance', type thing. After all extinction is a thing.
The sand castle analogy is why I think that saying works, past performance doesn't indicate future, every 'now' is a new sand castle, its a bit taller, has more weight on one side from the last shift, its a bit wider... it will fail but and it might look very similar, or it might fail a new way and really take it down.
"When we hit rock bottom, we will bounce back," he said.
Or maybe you'll just go splat.
Why so negative?
Because shock therapy has been done before, and the west is effectively at war with the result right now. Argentina might not be as bad but it's easy to assume when looking at the history of the policy that it makes everything worse except for foreign and local elites.
Argentina has been bankrupt defaulted 7 SEVEN times.
They had over a decade of MORE AS ONE HUNDRED PERCENT INFLATION EACH YEAR.
This guy fixed it in one month by not overspending and bringing the peso to a level that is more in stroke with reality.
But the extreme leftish here on lemmy won't ever admit their zurdosdeemmmmmm fcked the country AND MANY OTHERS LIKE IT! for so long.
It's a pity that in developed countries you shouldnt vote right and in developing countries you shouldn't vote left. Both are abused by criminals and narcos and dictators
Argentine inflation is at 211.4% , the highest it's ever been in 32 years. The value of the Peso is about where it would be if it's existing downward trend had continued. Go check it, he's barely made a difference to it's value. I'm sure Milei's PR team is hard at work making up these claims but please fact check them because they're obviously BS.
The real thing is the spending had to stop. They spend more as they get in and they DON'T have the FED NOR US ARMY
This guy fixed it in one month
Did he?
Since he took office in December, Milei has slashed public spending, winning the approval of the International Monetary Fund and securing a budget surplus for the first time in 12 years in a country whose previous governments oversaw rampant inflation and multiple fiscal crises.
However, annual inflation has still risen to 254 percent, the price of bus tickets has more than tripled, and the government has frozen crucial aid to soup kitchens that have ever more mouths to feed.>
What did he fix?
Both are abused by criminals and narcos and dictators
Everything is subsumed and used by those hungry for power, and with the means to solidify it. That doesn't mean that the content of their claimed political thought doesn't have meaning, or that we can never conclude anything about humanity or its ideologies from looking at history, understanding theory, analyzing culture, power ...
Maybe understand why people here seem 'extreme' left, instead of just writing nonsensical, and obviously bad faith or confused arguments.
He didn't fix shit. If course he had a surplus, because he stopped spending for a period of time, But that doesn't mean the economy will be able to handle in the mid term.
We should normalize hating anyone of thing with hundreds of millions in wealth. The disparity must be called bs everywhere.
So the communist leaders of the last twenty years MADE THEIR MONEY IN POLITICS are much more to blame as a SOCCER MILLIONAIRE..
Right ?
⚽👍👍👍
Whatabout! whatabout! Whatabout!
There are no communist leaders. Communism is an economic model not a governmental methodology. The term has been abused. To claim otherwise is to claim North Korea is a Democratic Republic.
There is no communism without a dictatorship. Nobody is going to donate everything they make to the collective, if there's no threat of gulag lingering around.
Other than most clan and every decent family, sure, yeah, whatever.
For a family, small religious sect or a scout group, why not.
If you can keep up with who's doing what without using any measurement unit (money), it can work.
I thought we were talking about the whole country, though.
When scale is undeclared, scale is to be assumed all encompassing.
People do it all the time. Look up social libertarianism and anarcho communism.
Marxist Leninist are the authoritarian ones. Actual communists dislike ML too. They are at best nominally communist. By virtue of naming their authoritarian party "the Communist party" etc. But they largely reject actual communism.
But are there any working examples? I know there were some attempts at creating communes in the US. It usually ended up by people arguing so much that the group dissolved, or a charismatic leader taking over, which lead to a whole bunch of abuse.
There are groups out there. Yes. Though for very good reason they aren't very public about it. And yes, several have dissolved to squabbles or fallen to charismatics. Just because they might be more social minded doesn't make them any less human. And therefore vulnerable to the same issues everyone is vulnerable too.
Quite honestly, I've often thought about the viability of a public project of the type. Crowd funding it's start and staffing perhaps. Build out to a point of basic sustainment and expand, repeating. It could be done. But there will absolutely be violence from capitalists and those they influence. Should they believe their stolen hordes are threatened. Which is why those that have traditionally existed exist well below the radar.
Plenty of places in the world were doing just fine until the US interfered with endless sanctions and/or backing coups by those that would be more us capitalist friendly.
Coup can only work on centralized regimes, which, are supposedly not real communism.
But we can agree on one thing - fuck the foreign interference.
You see how they personally attack me? Please feel free to check my other comments. I'm not some trump fan he's the joke of the world, I'm a reasonable person that has on site experience by living in south America. EACH AND EVERY LEFT WING HERE IS LINKED TO NARCO TERRORISM.
The right isn't even right at all. The extreme right in south America is more left as the liberals in the us of aholes. (except religious stuff, somehow religion and leftism has conquered people like the literal inquisition
Wow what a lies.
ALL THE COMUNISTAS FROM SOUTH AMERICA FROM CUBA VENEZUELA ECUADOR SURINAM COLOMBIA MÉXICO SO MANY MORE THEY ARE allllllll sponsored by other dictator states and NARCOS.
This is 100% of the cases.
All south American left wing parties are NARCO TERRORISTS.
luckily where I live in ECUADOR they have started locking them up. One by one each one falls because of PROVEN CORRUPTION TO THE BONE IN EACH AND EVERY PORJECT AND DEPARTMENT.. So much money given to China and Cuba and Venezuela... It's really sad how they can milk a country that was already poor before..
Not a one of those is a "communist" country much less has a "communist" leader despite using "communism" as a campaign slogan and even having subsidies. Look the fucking words up, then discuss.
Every one of those countries is massively conservative and you claim them to be leftist???? Corruption is resplendent but only one side excuses it as the other condemns it. Please explain about emperor for life Pooh bear, oh sorry, Xi being a liberal. You can't as the stuffing is 100% conservative. Maduro a liberal???? are you shooting up drain cleaner? Nope. Each and every one is a conservative. There are no liberals there. And thus not an actual socialist nor communist amongst them. Stop being stupid.
Argentina is where a surprising amount of zero day exploits are written.
Qualified tech workers combined with non-existent earnings prospects make for a perfect recipe for an exploits industry. Those things allegedly pay pretty well if you can find them.
It's also a great recipe for brain drain, with aforementioned qualified tech workers moving out of the country.
Can you ppl just block the milei cult members? Stop trying to argue with these kids
Wow, so poverty percentages were 0 before this government?
No, wait, they had 49% poverty by November 2023.
And you tell me that after all these changes to reduce spend, it went up by 8%? I would have expected it to reach 90% to be honest.
Milei, o mais grande do mundo.
Wait one minute and 15 zurdosdeemmmmmm will come Downvote you...
Maybe, just maybe, people are downvoting you for being an idiot?
Any historic precedent for a country applying massive austerity measures during times of poverty, which has then "bounced back"?
Translation: we must kill the poor so that we can be rich.
No one is talking about how these extreme austerity measures will affect the most vulnerable people
Children lose very measurable nueral brain growth you don't get back if malnourished in the beginning. We're literally making a new class of measurably different human...
No. Plenty of evidence of it crashing systems and worsening recessions from the Great Depression though, compared to spending programs like the New Deal.
That said, there isn't a Great Depression, at the moment. Selling off public assets to foreign neocolonialists will produce short term benefits...
For their new oligarchy, since ancaps sure as fuck aren't reinvesting those funds into public education and infrastructure.
Um, i suppose you could apply the effect of the black plague on middle ages europe.
Estimated to have killed 1/3 of all people. There was a subsequent rise in wages/worker bargaining power attributed to the lack of labour supply.
I suppose thats an example of rock bottom and coming back with some benefit.
I wouldn't call it 'bouncing' back though, more like struggling on with a sliver of silver on those grey clouds. Not an adviseable course for a country to take.
I see it like sand in a sand timer that's been tipped. We get little crests and collapses cycles as the whole structure shifts and grows.
Good illustrative example.
I'm always hesitant to assume growth will always reassert itself in the end though. You know the old saying, 'past performance is not an indicator of future performance', type thing. After all extinction is a thing.
The sand castle analogy is why I think that saying works, past performance doesn't indicate future, every 'now' is a new sand castle, its a bit taller, has more weight on one side from the last shift, its a bit wider... it will fail but and it might look very similar, or it might fail a new way and really take it down.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity
Let's see if his escape helicopter bounce back
Somalia?
Ah yes, the economic miracle of...Somalia??
Or maybe you'll just go splat.
Why so negative?
Because shock therapy has been done before, and the west is effectively at war with the result right now. Argentina might not be as bad but it's easy to assume when looking at the history of the policy that it makes everything worse except for foreign and local elites.
Argentina has been bankrupt defaulted 7 SEVEN times.
They had over a decade of MORE AS ONE HUNDRED PERCENT INFLATION EACH YEAR.
This guy fixed it in one month by not overspending and bringing the peso to a level that is more in stroke with reality.
But the extreme leftish here on lemmy won't ever admit their zurdosdeemmmmmm fcked the country AND MANY OTHERS LIKE IT! for so long.
It's a pity that in developed countries you shouldnt vote right and in developing countries you shouldn't vote left. Both are abused by criminals and narcos and dictators
Argentine inflation is at 211.4% , the highest it's ever been in 32 years. The value of the Peso is about where it would be if it's existing downward trend had continued. Go check it, he's barely made a difference to it's value. I'm sure Milei's PR team is hard at work making up these claims but please fact check them because they're obviously BS.
The real thing is the spending had to stop. They spend more as they get in and they DON'T have the FED NOR US ARMY
Did he?
What did he fix?
Everything is subsumed and used by those hungry for power, and with the means to solidify it. That doesn't mean that the content of their claimed political thought doesn't have meaning, or that we can never conclude anything about humanity or its ideologies from looking at history, understanding theory, analyzing culture, power ...
Maybe understand why people here seem 'extreme' left, instead of just writing nonsensical, and obviously bad faith or confused arguments.
He didn't fix shit. If course he had a surplus, because he stopped spending for a period of time, But that doesn't mean the economy will be able to handle in the mid term.
We should normalize hating anyone of thing with hundreds of millions in wealth. The disparity must be called bs everywhere.
So the communist leaders of the last twenty years MADE THEIR MONEY IN POLITICS are much more to blame as a SOCCER MILLIONAIRE.. Right ? ⚽👍👍👍
Whatabout! whatabout! Whatabout!
There are no communist leaders. Communism is an economic model not a governmental methodology. The term has been abused. To claim otherwise is to claim North Korea is a Democratic Republic.
There is no communism without a dictatorship. Nobody is going to donate everything they make to the collective, if there's no threat of gulag lingering around.
Other than most clan and every decent family, sure, yeah, whatever.
For a family, small religious sect or a scout group, why not.
If you can keep up with who's doing what without using any measurement unit (money), it can work.
I thought we were talking about the whole country, though.
When scale is undeclared, scale is to be assumed all encompassing.
People do it all the time. Look up social libertarianism and anarcho communism.
Marxist Leninist are the authoritarian ones. Actual communists dislike ML too. They are at best nominally communist. By virtue of naming their authoritarian party "the Communist party" etc. But they largely reject actual communism.
But are there any working examples? I know there were some attempts at creating communes in the US. It usually ended up by people arguing so much that the group dissolved, or a charismatic leader taking over, which lead to a whole bunch of abuse.
There are groups out there. Yes. Though for very good reason they aren't very public about it. And yes, several have dissolved to squabbles or fallen to charismatics. Just because they might be more social minded doesn't make them any less human. And therefore vulnerable to the same issues everyone is vulnerable too.
Quite honestly, I've often thought about the viability of a public project of the type. Crowd funding it's start and staffing perhaps. Build out to a point of basic sustainment and expand, repeating. It could be done. But there will absolutely be violence from capitalists and those they influence. Should they believe their stolen hordes are threatened. Which is why those that have traditionally existed exist well below the radar.
Plenty of places in the world were doing just fine until the US interfered with endless sanctions and/or backing coups by those that would be more us capitalist friendly.
Coup can only work on centralized regimes, which, are supposedly not real communism.
But we can agree on one thing - fuck the foreign interference.
You see how they personally attack me? Please feel free to check my other comments. I'm not some trump fan he's the joke of the world, I'm a reasonable person that has on site experience by living in south America. EACH AND EVERY LEFT WING HERE IS LINKED TO NARCO TERRORISM.
The right isn't even right at all. The extreme right in south America is more left as the liberals in the us of aholes. (except religious stuff, somehow religion and leftism has conquered people like the literal inquisition
Wow what a lies.
ALL THE COMUNISTAS FROM SOUTH AMERICA FROM CUBA VENEZUELA ECUADOR SURINAM COLOMBIA MÉXICO SO MANY MORE THEY ARE allllllll sponsored by other dictator states and NARCOS.
This is 100% of the cases.
All south American left wing parties are NARCO TERRORISTS.
luckily where I live in ECUADOR they have started locking them up. One by one each one falls because of PROVEN CORRUPTION TO THE BONE IN EACH AND EVERY PORJECT AND DEPARTMENT.. So much money given to China and Cuba and Venezuela... It's really sad how they can milk a country that was already poor before..
Not a one of those is a "communist" country much less has a "communist" leader despite using "communism" as a campaign slogan and even having subsidies. Look the fucking words up, then discuss.
Every one of those countries is massively conservative and you claim them to be leftist???? Corruption is resplendent but only one side excuses it as the other condemns it. Please explain about emperor for life Pooh bear, oh sorry, Xi being a liberal. You can't as the stuffing is 100% conservative. Maduro a liberal???? are you shooting up drain cleaner? Nope. Each and every one is a conservative. There are no liberals there. And thus not an actual socialist nor communist amongst them. Stop being stupid.
Argentina is where a surprising amount of zero day exploits are written.
Qualified tech workers combined with non-existent earnings prospects make for a perfect recipe for an exploits industry. Those things allegedly pay pretty well if you can find them.
It's also a great recipe for brain drain, with aforementioned qualified tech workers moving out of the country.
Can you ppl just block the milei cult members? Stop trying to argue with these kids
Wow, so poverty percentages were 0 before this government?
No, wait, they had 49% poverty by November 2023.
And you tell me that after all these changes to reduce spend, it went up by 8%? I would have expected it to reach 90% to be honest.
Milei, o mais grande do mundo.
Wait one minute and 15 zurdosdeemmmmmm will come Downvote you...
Maybe, just maybe, people are downvoting you for being an idiot?
Doubtful