Sorry, eating meat brings me too much raw, unbridled ecstasy to do that.
At least tone it down. People eat way too much meat. Other good food exists.
It's interesting that in any other situation, getting raw, unbridled ecstasy at the expense of an animal would be horrible. What is it about taste pleasure that makes it ok?
They're not alive while I do it, and I (along with most of the world's population) have no ethical concerns about killing animals for food.
Well its still your eating them that gets them killed, whether you kill them yourself or not.
Yes. I am comfortable with that. Do you think most meat eaters don't know that?
it took 400 years to convince white Americans to stop keeping slaves. Injustices, however, do not exist forever.
The only question is: Which side of history do you want to be on? On the side of the people who have spent their lives paying for animal suffering or on the side of the people who have worked for the welfare and rights of animals?
I don't eat animals, but I can guarantee that's not the thing that's going to put me on the right side of history. On a long enough timeline, we're all monsters.
I admire the strength of your convictions if you truly believe that not eating animals is going to put you on the "right side of history" akin to anti-slavery activists. I just don't see that happening on our lifetimes, and don't much care - unlike slaveholders, the vast majority of human history has consisted of omnivores. If a future generation of man wants to cast judgement on me, I'll be in the company of most of mankind.
I figured that when you said theyre not alive when you "do it" you were implying you didnt like them being killed. What did you mean by that then?
I'm really not sure how you got that from what I wrote, so I don't know how to respond.
Correct, but it is still harm being inflicted on animals purely for pleasure, right? I just think it's interesting that most people don't have qualms with that, when they would under other circumstances.
For instance: killing an animal because you like the sight of it = psychopath. Killing an animal because you like the sound of it = serial killer in the making. Killing an animal because you like the taste of it = normal.
the thing about the vegan “eat dog” things is that yeah people have cognitive dissonance about eating pet animals, i don’t
So you do eat dog?
i likely would if i lived somewhere where it’s available
Oh man for a second there I thought it was real. Kinda wanted to try some
Oh, I thought you were meming. This is an anti-meat site. I don't really get it, I don't have moral compunctions against eating dog and I don't think most people really do if you press them on it. It's just a taste thing since we see them as companion animals instead of livestock. Eating dog (for Western non-dog-eating folks) is like using a screwdriver as a hammer, not an immoral act.
Does your own pleasure justify harm against others? Can you think of other actions where this kind of justification might be problematic to you?
Does your own pleasure justify harm against others?
I have (genuinely) tried really hard over the years to try and see it that way. To try to feel bad about the idea that an animal died so that I could eat it.
It has never worked, not even a little bit. I've been on a farm a few times and have seen my food killed right in front of me, yet it never bothered me neither as a child nor an adult. The most I can do is pretend to care so that other people think I'm a saint, but I genuinely am not capable of feeling anything for the animals that I'm eating. I wonder if that's a biological thing? Like some people are born without the genes that make you sad about this type of thing.
Idk, but in any case, appeals to emotion have never worked on me, and will never work on me. I know there are logical, non-emotional reasons to avoid eating animals, but when I see vegan discussions online focusing on the emotional side of it, I just eye roll and leave. I guess it's ironic, but a lot of vegans I've met IRL and online are lacking empathy.
That was not an appeal to emotion. It's asking for a logical justification. Do you think actions that harm others, deserve consideration regardless of whether or not it makes you feel bad? It's about how the victims feel.
That was not an appeal to emotion. It's asking for a logical justification. Do you think actions that harm others, deserve consideration regardless of whether or not it makes yoh feel bad? It's about how the victims feel.
Hey, I've seen you around here a couple of times. Starting to feel like Lemmy is a rather small and right community after all. Thanks for sticking up for veganism. :)
Individuals making the choice to go vegan is never going to solve our environmental and animal rights issues. Not that it's worthless, but I think the focus should be on getting more stringent regulation of how animals are treated and pushing for alternatives like fake or lab grown meat. It should also be noted that vegetarianism is better for the environment overall, vegan milk alternatives are all highly demanding crops that need a lot of water and space.
Not to take away from the core of veganism, but we as individuals can do the bare minimum of living vegan to help lift the strain on the environment. Politics will do jack as we've seen many years over, so people need to act themselves and take matters in their own hands. Every bit counts, so dismissing veganism as a whole because individual choices don't matter is a weak argument. Change must come from somewhere after all.
Companies do need to change their ways, but so does the average consumer.
That is... also not true. Take any vegan milk alternative and the dairy version will be worse in terms of environmental strain and water consumption. Like, not even close. Even the "worst" vegan option will be better than dairy.
You can take any graph on this off the internet and will have this confirmed, but have a couple.
Edit: Plus advocating for animals to be kept better will not change anything about the end result: innocent animals are being kept in captivity, tortured, and killed. They don't give a shit if they have an eighth of a square meter more space to """live""".
Well I definitely misremembered on the milk thing, looking it up the statistics seem pretty clear that dairy production is more demanding than the alternatives. I still think that regulation will have more of an effect than trying to change the minds of individuals though, I wouldn't dismiss the kind of impact it can have.
Both. Both is good imo
You'll all be vegan by choice or by force when every living animal that crepeth upon the earth is extinct.
Any situation leading to that would also cause humans to go extinct lmfao
Exactly. Go Vegan!
“individual consumers are responsible for environmental problems” is such an insidious lie and i had hoped not to see it on 196
Too bad! Go vegan!
Companies are responsible, sure, but why not do your part in making a difference? Apart from there not being any justification for killing animals for pleasure.
You know humans have evolved to eat meat? Hunting animals is literally a core feature of us as an animal. It's much easier to have a healthy omnivorous diet than a vegan one because our bodies are adapted to consume animal and plants together. It's not a fact you can ignore and it's the reason why vegans need artificial supplements or risk severe health issues.
Not even a vegan but this is such a bad argument lmao. Are you hunting the animals you eat? If not, you're not just eating meat, you are directly participating in a system that tortures them before they die. Factory farms are horrific. If you're gonna eat meat and animals products, fine, but don't pretend like it's just "what's natural."
Yeah and it's natural to eat animals, we didn't hunt them for fun! How can you not understand this?
You are not hunting the animals. Go set traps in the woods, gather a bunch of friends with sharpened sticks and some good throwing rocks, and drive some deer into your traps. That is what's "natural." Again, I think it's fine if you choose to eat meat, but the meat industry is not "natural," nor is it harmless.
Yeah you just described hunting being natural.
Eating meat is also natural, even if meat production techniques are no longer natural.
This isn't an argument about nature though, it's about diet and nutrition. Eating animals is more nutritious for us and vegans require supplements to compensate; this is because we evolved with animal & fish meat as a significant food source. Vegan diets are inherently less healthy than omnivore ones, just like carnivore diets are generally less healthy too.
This isn't to say what vegans are doing isn't a noble endeavor. It largely is noble as it helps the planet. It shouldn't however be seen as the default or that eating meat is abnormal because eating meat is what we were built for. It requires modern dietary planning and supplementation to maintain a healthy vegan lifestyle and it might not even he possible in certain stages of life.
Humans have evolved on an omnivorous diet. The evolution-from-meat-eating myth has been debunked many times over. Compared to an actual carnivore, our digestion is more akin to a herbivore than a carnivore. Just because we can eat meat, does not mean we should.
Edit: Not even to speak of the fact that most meats the average person eats are stuffed full of antibiotics, so eating those does not equate a healthy diet.
I said you should eat an omnivorous diet, not a carnivore one. Did you even read my comment?
Most meats do not contain antibiotics, that only happens in countries with bad food safety regulations. Antibiotics are also not a bad thing by any means, though you should use them selectively. Just because an animal has had antibiotics in the past dosen't mean they still have significant levels when they are slaughtered.
Those sources are heavily biased. Human ancestor ate both meat and vegetables. Even chimpanzees eat insects, which are actually very nutritionous!
The post doesn't mention environmental problems. Most vegans, including myself, are more focused on the animals.
No thanks.
add in a Maryland flag bib, and you just might be anointed the next governor.
Anointment with Old Bay is a time-honored tradition to ensure that any would-be leaders aren't just very clever (and very delicious) crabs in disguise.
It’s all crabs?
Always has been.
🌍 👩🚀 🔫👩🚀
CRAB PEOPLE
CRAB PEOPLE
Missed opportunity for Old Bay to put "Season the individual".
Check the perspective and the billboard. It’s the same image, but edited.
PugJesus@kbin.social to 
Go vegan
Sorry, eating meat brings me too much raw, unbridled ecstasy to do that.
At least tone it down. People eat way too much meat. Other good food exists.
It's interesting that in any other situation, getting raw, unbridled ecstasy at the expense of an animal would be horrible. What is it about taste pleasure that makes it ok?
They're not alive while I do it, and I (along with most of the world's population) have no ethical concerns about killing animals for food.
Well its still your eating them that gets them killed, whether you kill them yourself or not.
Yes. I am comfortable with that. Do you think most meat eaters don't know that?
it took 400 years to convince white Americans to stop keeping slaves. Injustices, however, do not exist forever.
The only question is: Which side of history do you want to be on? On the side of the people who have spent their lives paying for animal suffering or on the side of the people who have worked for the welfare and rights of animals?
I don't eat animals, but I can guarantee that's not the thing that's going to put me on the right side of history. On a long enough timeline, we're all monsters.
I admire the strength of your convictions if you truly believe that not eating animals is going to put you on the "right side of history" akin to anti-slavery activists. I just don't see that happening on our lifetimes, and don't much care - unlike slaveholders, the vast majority of human history has consisted of omnivores. If a future generation of man wants to cast judgement on me, I'll be in the company of most of mankind.
I figured that when you said theyre not alive when you "do it" you were implying you didnt like them being killed. What did you mean by that then?
I'm really not sure how you got that from what I wrote, so I don't know how to respond.
Correct, but it is still harm being inflicted on animals purely for pleasure, right? I just think it's interesting that most people don't have qualms with that, when they would under other circumstances.
For instance: killing an animal because you like the sight of it = psychopath. Killing an animal because you like the sound of it = serial killer in the making. Killing an animal because you like the taste of it = normal.
Loves me some organic dog meat https://www.elwooddogmeat.com/
the thing about the vegan “eat dog” things is that yeah people have cognitive dissonance about eating pet animals, i don’t
So you do eat dog?
i likely would if i lived somewhere where it’s available
Oh man for a second there I thought it was real. Kinda wanted to try some
Oh, I thought you were meming. This is an anti-meat site. I don't really get it, I don't have moral compunctions against eating dog and I don't think most people really do if you press them on it. It's just a taste thing since we see them as companion animals instead of livestock. Eating dog (for Western non-dog-eating folks) is like using a screwdriver as a hammer, not an immoral act.
Does your own pleasure justify harm against others? Can you think of other actions where this kind of justification might be problematic to you?
I have (genuinely) tried really hard over the years to try and see it that way. To try to feel bad about the idea that an animal died so that I could eat it.
It has never worked, not even a little bit. I've been on a farm a few times and have seen my food killed right in front of me, yet it never bothered me neither as a child nor an adult. The most I can do is pretend to care so that other people think I'm a saint, but I genuinely am not capable of feeling anything for the animals that I'm eating. I wonder if that's a biological thing? Like some people are born without the genes that make you sad about this type of thing.
Idk, but in any case, appeals to emotion have never worked on me, and will never work on me. I know there are logical, non-emotional reasons to avoid eating animals, but when I see vegan discussions online focusing on the emotional side of it, I just eye roll and leave. I guess it's ironic, but a lot of vegans I've met IRL and online are lacking empathy.
That was not an appeal to emotion. It's asking for a logical justification. Do you think actions that harm others, deserve consideration regardless of whether or not it makes you feel bad? It's about how the victims feel.
That was not an appeal to emotion. It's asking for a logical justification. Do you think actions that harm others, deserve consideration regardless of whether or not it makes yoh feel bad? It's about how the victims feel.
Hey, I've seen you around here a couple of times. Starting to feel like Lemmy is a rather small and right community after all. Thanks for sticking up for veganism. :)
Go Old Bay
Individuals making the choice to go vegan is never going to solve our environmental and animal rights issues. Not that it's worthless, but I think the focus should be on getting more stringent regulation of how animals are treated and pushing for alternatives like fake or lab grown meat. It should also be noted that vegetarianism is better for the environment overall, vegan milk alternatives are all highly demanding crops that need a lot of water and space.
Not to take away from the core of veganism, but we as individuals can do the bare minimum of living vegan to help lift the strain on the environment. Politics will do jack as we've seen many years over, so people need to act themselves and take matters in their own hands. Every bit counts, so dismissing veganism as a whole because individual choices don't matter is a weak argument. Change must come from somewhere after all.
Companies do need to change their ways, but so does the average consumer.
That is... also not true. Take any vegan milk alternative and the dairy version will be worse in terms of environmental strain and water consumption. Like, not even close. Even the "worst" vegan option will be better than dairy.
You can take any graph on this off the internet and will have this confirmed, but have a couple.
Edit: Plus advocating for animals to be kept better will not change anything about the end result: innocent animals are being kept in captivity, tortured, and killed. They don't give a shit if they have an eighth of a square meter more space to """live""".
Well I definitely misremembered on the milk thing, looking it up the statistics seem pretty clear that dairy production is more demanding than the alternatives. I still think that regulation will have more of an effect than trying to change the minds of individuals though, I wouldn't dismiss the kind of impact it can have.
Both. Both is good imo
You'll all be vegan by choice or by force when every living animal that crepeth upon the earth is extinct.
Any situation leading to that would also cause humans to go extinct lmfao
Exactly. Go Vegan!
“individual consumers are responsible for environmental problems” is such an insidious lie and i had hoped not to see it on 196
Too bad! Go vegan!
Companies are responsible, sure, but why not do your part in making a difference? Apart from there not being any justification for killing animals for pleasure.
You know humans have evolved to eat meat? Hunting animals is literally a core feature of us as an animal. It's much easier to have a healthy omnivorous diet than a vegan one because our bodies are adapted to consume animal and plants together. It's not a fact you can ignore and it's the reason why vegans need artificial supplements or risk severe health issues.
Not even a vegan but this is such a bad argument lmao. Are you hunting the animals you eat? If not, you're not just eating meat, you are directly participating in a system that tortures them before they die. Factory farms are horrific. If you're gonna eat meat and animals products, fine, but don't pretend like it's just "what's natural."
Yeah and it's natural to eat animals, we didn't hunt them for fun! How can you not understand this?
You are not hunting the animals. Go set traps in the woods, gather a bunch of friends with sharpened sticks and some good throwing rocks, and drive some deer into your traps. That is what's "natural." Again, I think it's fine if you choose to eat meat, but the meat industry is not "natural," nor is it harmless.
Yeah you just described hunting being natural.
Eating meat is also natural, even if meat production techniques are no longer natural.
This isn't an argument about nature though, it's about diet and nutrition. Eating animals is more nutritious for us and vegans require supplements to compensate; this is because we evolved with animal & fish meat as a significant food source. Vegan diets are inherently less healthy than omnivore ones, just like carnivore diets are generally less healthy too.
This isn't to say what vegans are doing isn't a noble endeavor. It largely is noble as it helps the planet. It shouldn't however be seen as the default or that eating meat is abnormal because eating meat is what we were built for. It requires modern dietary planning and supplementation to maintain a healthy vegan lifestyle and it might not even he possible in certain stages of life.
Humans have evolved on an omnivorous diet. The evolution-from-meat-eating myth has been debunked many times over. Compared to an actual carnivore, our digestion is more akin to a herbivore than a carnivore. Just because we can eat meat, does not mean we should.
Edit: Not even to speak of the fact that most meats the average person eats are stuffed full of antibiotics, so eating those does not equate a healthy diet.
Edit: Have a few sources too: https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/ancestors-ate-meat/resources
I said you should eat an omnivorous diet, not a carnivore one. Did you even read my comment?
Most meats do not contain antibiotics, that only happens in countries with bad food safety regulations. Antibiotics are also not a bad thing by any means, though you should use them selectively. Just because an animal has had antibiotics in the past dosen't mean they still have significant levels when they are slaughtered.
Those sources are heavily biased. Human ancestor ate both meat and vegetables. Even chimpanzees eat insects, which are actually very nutritionous!
The post doesn't mention environmental problems. Most vegans, including myself, are more focused on the animals.
No thanks.
add in a Maryland flag bib, and you just might be anointed the next governor.
Anointment with Old Bay is a time-honored tradition to ensure that any would-be leaders aren't just very clever (and very delicious) crabs in disguise.
It’s all crabs? Always has been. 🌍 👩🚀 🔫👩🚀
CRAB PEOPLE
CRAB PEOPLE
Missed opportunity for Old Bay to put "Season the individual".
Check the perspective and the billboard. It’s the same image, but edited.