I'm not american, but isn't calling yourself not progressive kinda... Shit? Why would you ever say that you don't like progress?
He didn’t say that. He said he is willing to have a discussion about immigration policy with republicans.
Whoever wrote the article is trying to speak on behalf of an entire political group called “Progressives” by claiming everyone in the group came to a unanimous decision to not discuss immigration (this isn’t true).
So the writer of the article is claiming Fetterman isn’t a part of the group of Progressives because Fetterman is willing to do his job by being diplomatic.
The piece literally quotes Fetterman saying that he is not a progressive. Not sure what you’re talking about.
Then you didn’t read the article because he never said “I don’t like progress”
“I’m not a progressive,” Fetterman told NBC News. “I just think I’m a Democrat that is very committed to choice and other things. But with Israel, I’m going to be on the right side of that. And immigration is something near and dear to me, and I think we do have to effectively address it as well.”
What you think I’m saying: ‘he didn’t say “I’m not a progressive”’
What BruceTwarzan said: “Why would you ever say that you don't like progress?”
I said: “he didn’t say that” (he didn’t say “I don’t like progress”)
He said he is willing to have a discussion about immigration policy with republicans.
"Let's hear the literal fascists who compare even legal immigrants to vermin and invading armies out. I'm sure they'll be willing to reach a reasonable compromise" 🙄
You can’t just throw a temper tantrum and expect to get your way. Diplomacy is required to actually get things done.
Let me know when you see Republicans try any. I haven't seen it during my lifetime, but hey, there's always this time 🙄
Who said anything about a temper tantrum? Could you please try and refrain from using ridiculous pro-capitulation strawmen?
Calmly refusing to negotiate with fascists about one of their favorite "if we give an inch, we're traitors" issues because you know nothing good will come from it isn't having a temper tantrum. It's being realistic.
So you don’t think our politicians should ever be diplomatic or just when on the subject of immigration reform?
I don't think politicians should grandstand for cheap points about good faith negotiations with domestic terrorists whose re-election depends on negotiating in bad faith or not negotiating at all.
I wouldn't brag about negotiating with cats about them going vegan either, and that would have a BETTER chance of bearing fruit.
So regardless of the subject you want our government in gridlock and our politicians to not get anything done. Got it.
Nope. Please pack your ridiculous strawmen away. You're sounding mighty Republican with your bad faith arguments.
How is that a strawman?
How is it NOT a strawman to pretend that I ever advocated for government gridlock?
If politicians don’t negotiate across the aisle when majorities in Congress are slim then nothing will get done.
Did you or did you not imply that Fetterman shouldn’t negotiate?
I said that nothing good could come from pretending to negotiate immigration with radically anti-immigrant fascists who aren't even PRETENDING to negotiate in good faith.
Three things can result:
No changes
Changes for the worse and nothing else (by far the most likely)
Tiny changes for the better on one or two very specific things in exchange for massive systemic change for the worse.
You're pretending that the GOP is a normal and legitimate political party rather than a fundamentally dishonest fascist movement.
Is your name Neville? Because you're being very Chamberlain right now
Because two comments back you literally said it was non negotiable. What the ever fuck do you want to happen?
I didn't say it was non-negotiable, I said that Republicans have no willingness to negotiate in good faith and as such, nothing good comes from pretending that they will.
Don't misquote me to me. It confirms what I and anyone else reading already suspected: that you're either being dishonest or having trouble understanding plain English.
This isn't a let's hash out an immigration deal where both sides get a little of what they want regarding immigration reform, it's submitting to hostage takers for an entirely unrelated issue that shouldn't really be partisan.
Progressive is often used as a blanket term that basically means that you are farther left than the Democratic party. Not that he doesn't like progress, just that he is not pursuing the end of capitalism or something in that direction if even slightly.
To be fair, Fetterman is eager to progress genocide.
Progressives are basically the left wing of the neoliberal consensus but not "left" if we're talking like actual left ideologies ie socialism.
I always understood it otherwise, that progressive was more to the left, outside that neoliberal democrat stance. But these things change over time and I may have always just misunderstood.
Leftists generally call themselves leftists. Progressives are usually Social Democrats, ie Scandinavian Capitalism.
"Progressive" is a faction of Democrats. They aren't the only people that support progress.
I don't consider myself a progressive, because I disagree with about 30% (in very ballpark terms) of current progressive policy choices. It's not hard to imagine Fetterman feels similarly.
I absolutely disagree with Fetterman that immigration should be curtailed at all - Democrats are not a monolith. Most Democrat representatives disagree with some policy or other.
“Progressive” is a faction of Democrats. They aren’t the only people that support progress.
Yeah, there are people to their left.
There are also people to their, uh, whichever direction the anti-authoritarian axis is.
Exactly I don't consider myself a progressive either for similar reasons and I don't agree with the notion of progress they seem to believe in. I'm a materialist and believe progress is contingent on economic and material conditions and that people's notions of progress are relative to that. "Progress" begs the question progress to what and for them it's often progress in a capitalist individualist sense, where more of the best people get the best stuff. Progress to them would be like more minorities represented in executive level careers but progress to me would mean the system that creates these disparities doesn't exist. Progressives think capitalism can be redeemed by appealing to its own morality basically.
It is a label that is applied to a small group of democrats only, as far as I understand.
It's all just labels, it's not really the etemology of the word that people care about, but the ideas it represents. The opposite of progressive is conservative. I think if you were to ask anyone in particular, they would say that they'd like to progress some things and conserve others. It's just the label for who tends to do more of each. So it's less about saying your not "for progress" and more about showing what ideas you align with. And many conservatives wouldn't call progressive ideas "progress" if they were implemented; they think it'd be bad for society. So it's all just words at the end of the day to signify what ideas you align with
I'm not american, but isn't calling yourself not progressive kinda... Shit? Why would you ever say that you don't like progress?
He didn’t say that. He said he is willing to have a discussion about immigration policy with republicans.
Whoever wrote the article is trying to speak on behalf of an entire political group called “Progressives” by claiming everyone in the group came to a unanimous decision to not discuss immigration (this isn’t true).
So the writer of the article is claiming Fetterman isn’t a part of the group of Progressives because Fetterman is willing to do his job by being diplomatic.
The piece literally quotes Fetterman saying that he is not a progressive. Not sure what you’re talking about.
Then you didn’t read the article because he never said “I don’t like progress”
What you think I’m saying: ‘he didn’t say “I’m not a progressive”’
What BruceTwarzan said: “Why would you ever say that you don't like progress?”
I said: “he didn’t say that” (he didn’t say “I don’t like progress”)
"Let's hear the literal fascists who compare even legal immigrants to vermin and invading armies out. I'm sure they'll be willing to reach a reasonable compromise" 🙄
You can’t just throw a temper tantrum and expect to get your way. Diplomacy is required to actually get things done.
Let me know when you see Republicans try any. I haven't seen it during my lifetime, but hey, there's always this time 🙄
Who said anything about a temper tantrum? Could you please try and refrain from using ridiculous pro-capitulation strawmen?
Calmly refusing to negotiate with fascists about one of their favorite "if we give an inch, we're traitors" issues because you know nothing good will come from it isn't having a temper tantrum. It's being realistic.
So you don’t think our politicians should ever be diplomatic or just when on the subject of immigration reform?
I don't think politicians should grandstand for cheap points about good faith negotiations with domestic terrorists whose re-election depends on negotiating in bad faith or not negotiating at all.
I wouldn't brag about negotiating with cats about them going vegan either, and that would have a BETTER chance of bearing fruit.
So regardless of the subject you want our government in gridlock and our politicians to not get anything done. Got it.
Nope. Please pack your ridiculous strawmen away. You're sounding mighty Republican with your bad faith arguments.
How is that a strawman?
How is it NOT a strawman to pretend that I ever advocated for government gridlock?
If politicians don’t negotiate across the aisle when majorities in Congress are slim then nothing will get done.
Did you or did you not imply that Fetterman shouldn’t negotiate?
I said that nothing good could come from pretending to negotiate immigration with radically anti-immigrant fascists who aren't even PRETENDING to negotiate in good faith.
Three things can result:
No changes
Changes for the worse and nothing else (by far the most likely)
Tiny changes for the better on one or two very specific things in exchange for massive systemic change for the worse.
You're pretending that the GOP is a normal and legitimate political party rather than a fundamentally dishonest fascist movement.
Is your name Neville? Because you're being very Chamberlain right now
Because two comments back you literally said it was non negotiable. What the ever fuck do you want to happen?
I didn't say it was non-negotiable, I said that Republicans have no willingness to negotiate in good faith and as such, nothing good comes from pretending that they will.
Don't misquote me to me. It confirms what I and anyone else reading already suspected: that you're either being dishonest or having trouble understanding plain English.
This isn't a let's hash out an immigration deal where both sides get a little of what they want regarding immigration reform, it's submitting to hostage takers for an entirely unrelated issue that shouldn't really be partisan.
Progressive is often used as a blanket term that basically means that you are farther left than the Democratic party. Not that he doesn't like progress, just that he is not pursuing the end of capitalism or something in that direction if even slightly.
To be fair, Fetterman is eager to progress genocide.
Progressives are basically the left wing of the neoliberal consensus but not "left" if we're talking like actual left ideologies ie socialism.
I always understood it otherwise, that progressive was more to the left, outside that neoliberal democrat stance. But these things change over time and I may have always just misunderstood.
Leftists generally call themselves leftists. Progressives are usually Social Democrats, ie Scandinavian Capitalism.
"Progressive" is a faction of Democrats. They aren't the only people that support progress.
I don't consider myself a progressive, because I disagree with about 30% (in very ballpark terms) of current progressive policy choices. It's not hard to imagine Fetterman feels similarly.
I absolutely disagree with Fetterman that immigration should be curtailed at all - Democrats are not a monolith. Most Democrat representatives disagree with some policy or other.
Yeah, there are people to their left.
There are also people to their, uh, whichever direction the anti-authoritarian axis is.
Exactly I don't consider myself a progressive either for similar reasons and I don't agree with the notion of progress they seem to believe in. I'm a materialist and believe progress is contingent on economic and material conditions and that people's notions of progress are relative to that. "Progress" begs the question progress to what and for them it's often progress in a capitalist individualist sense, where more of the best people get the best stuff. Progress to them would be like more minorities represented in executive level careers but progress to me would mean the system that creates these disparities doesn't exist. Progressives think capitalism can be redeemed by appealing to its own morality basically.
https://youtu.be/kOk05dKl8-c?si=gXlco_tfUU9fmiPm
It is a label that is applied to a small group of democrats only, as far as I understand.
It's all just labels, it's not really the etemology of the word that people care about, but the ideas it represents. The opposite of progressive is conservative. I think if you were to ask anyone in particular, they would say that they'd like to progress some things and conserve others. It's just the label for who tends to do more of each. So it's less about saying your not "for progress" and more about showing what ideas you align with. And many conservatives wouldn't call progressive ideas "progress" if they were implemented; they think it'd be bad for society. So it's all just words at the end of the day to signify what ideas you align with