Israel kills head of Hamas police's special forces in Rafah - report

Stamau123@lemmy.world to World News@lemmy.world – 186 points –
Israel kills head of Hamas police's special forces in Rafah - report
m.jpost.com

The commander of the IDF's 98th Division said he would work on evacuation plans "if and when" he is told to launch an invasion.

A Hamas police vehicle was struck in Gaza's southern city of Rafah on Wednesday evening in what Palestinian media reported as a targeted assassination by the IDF.

According to the reports, Hamas police's special forces head, Majdi Abd al-Aal, was killed in the suspected attack.

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The place where 2 million people live has a government. Shock.

Did the people of Gaza appoint Hamas or did they waltz in at gunpoint?

They elected them and in recent polling generally support them, especially for doing the October 7th attack

Could decades of brainwashing be a factor of it?

Attack my ass, unarmed civilian massacre.

Could decades of brainwashing be a factor of it?

Maybe ask yourself the same.

Really? Let me guess, you think I am a brainwashed Israeli Jew or someone living abroad?

Ever really listened to Lennon, Imagine? Or Roger Waters work?

ANY organized religion or ANY race(!) based thinking, being manipulated by billionaires is the problem. I know both sides, nobody is good. Root for true peace.

What HAMAS did is comparable to Poland really attacking Germany.

I agree with you in theory, just not in practice, I suppose. Billionaires are not going to roll over and quit because they're asked to.

I mean, I don't support any of the violence occurring, especially not the violence of displacing Palestinians into ghettos and definitely not Oct. 7th, however if you were displaced into a ghetto and lived in constant fear of being bombarded by the IDF, I'd support whatever group of people with guns that said they would fight the group of people trying to kill me. They're caught between a rock and hard place with no options. You go with your best option given the circumstances.

"I don't condone violence, I just make excuses for it"

Disgusting.

Any violence towards civilians is unacceptable. You can condemn those actions by Hamas and still recognize that the occupied have an international right to fight back against their occupiers.

Israel has made peaceful resolution impossible, non violent protests against the occupation are responded with lethal force

1st Intifada AJ, PBS, Haaretz

Gaza March for Return Protest

History of peace process

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

“I don’t condone violence, I just make excuses for it”

Disgusting.

Weird, your sources seem to be missing the events in late 1947 that led up to the formulation and execution of Plan Dalet. All cases of the Arab League threatening mass genocide of Jews and conclusive evidence of the Arab League having deep ties to Nazi Germany also seem to be mysteriously absent. 🤔

https://www.hoover.org/research/mufti-and-holocaust

Yes, After Arafat died they were elected by a small election of something like 45 percent back in 2006. Since then, the "democratically" and "fairly" elected government that didn't even try to influence the election with any terroristic activity, has not held another election. Do you wonder why? As far as the people of Gaza supporting the Hamas attack on Israel, are you serious? They would support ANYBODY attacking Israel but then again, they would gladly accept any humanitarian aid from Israel also.

You forgot the part in 2006 when Fatah tried to overthrow the PA in a coup and Israel publicly took their side and armed them. Hamas repelled the coup attempt and there’s been multiple attempts at redoing the election but neither side trusts the other and Hamas is not going to let coup people run for election when they tried to overthrow a result they didn’t like.

Fatah was the ruling party in 2006. learn history. Also, remember Hamas sided with Fatah in 2014 only to stab them in the back or did you forget about that?

Perhaps you should learn history; Fatah lost seats to Hamas in the 2006 election when Hamas won the plurality of the vote. Fatah decided to try a coup after being egged on by Israel.

If you think they weren't there well before 2006 with plenty of guns, you don't know history.

Hamas wouldn't exist if there was no occupation

British Mandate Period:

Antisemitism in Islam

Antisemitism in the Arab World

The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948

Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928

1929 Riots from Forward and 972Mag

Shaw Commission

Peel Commission Report and Memorandum of the Arab Higher Committee 1937

1936-1939 Revolt from JVL, Britannica, MEE

Irgun and Lehi activity

What Hitler and the Grand Mufti Really Said: Time, Haaretz, WaPo

Yosef Weitz' unofficial Transfer Committee and the JNF. Which has dispossessed Palestinians to present day. 972mag, MEE, Haaretz

1948 to 1967:

Plan Dalet and Declassified Massacres

Additional context of what was detailed in Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948)

Arab League advocating for unified state 1948

1967 war Declassified

Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations practiced in the occupied territories after 1967

How the US became the ally of Israel

UK influence

Occupation:

Occupation and 50 years of dispossession

1st Intifada AJ, PBS, Haaretz

Oslo Accords MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ

2nd Intifada AJ, Haaretz

Gaza Blockade is Occupation

Dahiya Doctrine

Arab Israelis are not equal including Education (2001 report)

Palestinian Prisoners in Israel and Military Court

Child abuse of Palestinian prisoners

Apartheid

Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)

Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, No freedom of movement, and also Water control

Gaza March for Return Protest

Palestinians lack civil rights

Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017

History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012

AWRAD Gaza War Poll

PCPSR Public Opinion Poll Dec 2023

History of peace process

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs archived here

10 Myths of Israel

Weird, your sources seem to be missing the events in late 1947 that led up to the formulation and execution of Plan Dalet. All cases of the Arab League threatening mass genocide of Jews and conclusive evidence of the Arab League having deep ties to Nazi Germany also seem to be mysteriously absent. 🤔

https://www.hoover.org/research/mufti-and-holocaust

Those are both revisionist histories that got debunked from the declassified archives of the Israeli Military, especially when cross referenced with Arab Sources.

The Nakba preceeded the arab-israeli war

Plan C, that preceded Dalet, was implemented in May 1946, and previous plans (A and B) that were more recon oriented (such as detailing the village/town layouts, which if any officials to kill, how many militia was in each town, how many if any weapons the militias had) were developed earlier. This goes back to the concept of transfer in Zionist thought which I linked. As well as the declassified info I also linked.

Additional context of what was detailed in Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948)

Israel was the aggressor in 1948

What Hitler and the Grand Mufti Really Said: Time, Haaretz, WaPo

The wiki on Amin Husseini and Azzam Pasha also show the revisionism in your source. After his expulsion, Amin's influence continued to dwindle. His antisemitism was never popular. It's no wonder why his personal Holy War Army only had about 1500, while over 12000 Palestinians fought alongside Jewish forces against Nazi Germany

If you want a more accurate account of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict you should look towards the New Historians that emerged once documents about the founding of Israel became declassified

The Hundred Years' War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe

A History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - Mark Tessler

Oh I have looked towards the New Historians for clear black and white answers to what otherwise seems like unabated mutual extremism. Unfortunately, Pappe's absolute mockery of an attempted chronicling only served to add to the obfuscation of what can be accepted as truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine

Jørgen Jensehaugen, in the Journal of Peace Research, while calling the book "a good read", faults Pappé for claiming that the preplanned expulsion of Palestinians was "the reason for the war", rather than merely "one aspect of the various war plans".[8]

Ephraim Nimni, in the Journal of Palestine Studies, commends Pappé on the book's "polemical character", but claims that the Zionist leaders were not solely responsible for the ethnic cleansing: Consequently, even if Pappé’s chronology is correct, and there is no reason to doubt this, the book does not provide a sufficient explanation for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. No matter how meticulous the planning by the leaders of the Yishuv (settlers) was, it would have been to no avail without an unusual concatenation of international events (the genocide of European Jewry, the onset of the cold war, the closing of liberal democratic gates to Jewish refugees, the emancipation of colonies in North Africa, and last but not least the hegemony of the model of the ethnic nation-state as the only available avenue for national emancipation).[9]

Even one of Pappe's close colleagues completely discredited him:

Critical analysis appeared in The New Republic. In his review of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, fellow new historian Benny Morris wrote, "At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world's sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two." Morris argued, "Such distortions, large and small, characterize almost every page of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine."[11]

The siege of Jerusalem preceded Plan D according to New Historians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet

On November 29, 1947, the UN voted to approve the Partition Plan for Palestine for ending the British Mandate and recommending the establishment of an Arab state and a Jewish state. In the immediate aftermath of the United Nations' approval of the Partition plan, the Jewish community expressed joy, while the Arab community expressed discontent.[19][20][qt 2] On the day after the vote, a spate of Arab attacks left at least eight Jews dead, one in Tel Aviv by sniper fire, and seven in ambushes on civilian buses that were claimed to be retaliations for a Lehi raid ten days earlier.[21] Shooting, stoning, and rioting continued[dubious – discuss]apace in the following days. Fighting began almost as soon as the plan was approved, beginning with the Arab Jerusalem Riots of 1947. Soon after, violence broke out and became more and more prevalent. Murders, reprisals, and counter-reprisals came fast on each other's heels, resulting in dozens of victims killed on both sides in the process. The sanguinary impasse persisted as no force intervened to put a stop to the escalating cycles of violence.[dubious – discuss]

From January onward, operations became increasingly militarized, with the intervention of a number of regiments of the Arab Liberation Army (consisting of volunteers from Arab countries) inside Palestine, each active in a variety of distinct sectors around the different coastal towns. They consolidated their presence in Galilee and Samaria.[22] Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni came from Egypt with several hundred men of the Army of the Holy War. Having recruited a few thousand volunteers, al-Husayni organised the blockade of the 100,000 Jewish residents of Jerusalem.[23] To counter this, the Yishuv authorities tried to supply the Jews of the city with food by using convoys of up to 100 armoured vehicles, but the operation became more and more impractical as the number of casualties in the relief convoys surged. By March, Al-Hussayni's tactic, sometimes called "The War of the Roads",[24] had paid off. Almost all of Haganah's armoured vehicles had been destroyed, the blockade was in full operation, and the Haganah had lost more than 100 troops.[25] According to Benny Morris, the situation for those who dwelt in the Jewish settlements in the highly isolated Negev and North of Galilee was equally critical.[26] According to Ilan Pappé, in early March, the Yishuv's security leadership did not seem to regard the overall situation as particularly troubling, but instead was busy finalising a master plan.[27]

Citation [25][26]&[27] are all New Historian documentation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Jerusalem

Avi Shlaim, a New Historian, substantiates the Arab League's genocidal threats:

https://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%20Debate%20About%201948.html

It is true that all the Arab states, with the exception of Jordan, rejected the UN partition plan. It is true that seven Arab armies invaded Palestine the morning after the State of Israel was proclaimed. It is true that the invasion was accompanied by blood-curdling rhetoric and threats to throw the Jews into the sea. It is true that in addition to the regular Arab armies and the Mufti's Holy War army, various groups of volunteers arrived in Palestine,the most important of which was the Arab Liberation Army, sponsored by the Arab League and led by the Syrian adventurer Fawzi al-Qawukji. More importantly, it is true that the military experts of the Arab League had worked out a unified plan for the invasion and that this plan was all the more dangerous for having had more limited and realistic objectives than those implied by the wild pan-Arab rhetoric.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calls_for_the_destruction_of_Israel

New Historian Benny Morris has described the Arabs as making calls with a “expulsionist or eliminationist mindset”:

In late 1947, King Ibn Saud of Saudi Arabia corresponded with U.S. President Harry Truman: The Arabs have definitely decided to oppose [the] establishment of a Jewish state... Even if it is supposed that the Jews will succeed in gaining support... by their oppressive and tyrannous means and their money, such a state must perish in a short time. The Arab will isolate such a state from the world and will lay siege until it dies by famine... Its end will be the same as that of [the] Crusader states.[15]

Around the same time, in response to the UNSCOP report, Azzam Pasha, the Secretary-General of the Arab League, stated that a war with the proposed Jewish state would lead to "a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades." Ephraim Karsh and David Barnett characterized this statement as a genocidal threat, while Tom Segev contested this interpretation.[16]

In the early months of 1948, Matiel Mughannam, an Arab Christian born in Lebanon and the leader of the Arab Women’s Organization, stated: [A Jewish state] has no chance to survive now that the ‘Holy War’ has been declared. All the Jews will eventually be massacred.[15]

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41858205?seq=2

"The Nazi government developed a cordial relationship with some Arab nationalists and it also cooperated with them, based on their common enemies and their shared distaste towards Jews and Zionism. Notable examples include the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine and other actions led by Amin al-Husseini..." - Nafi, Basheer M. "The Arabs and the Axis: 1933-1940". Arab Studies Quarterly, Vol. 19, Issue 2, Spring 1997

I've used enough time disputing and this point about Nazi Germany and the Arab League is a really dense subject that Bernard Lewis. who is admittedly alleged to be anti-Arab/Muslim, has revisited many times after Basheer. It's not really that important to my overall point other than its role in inciting The Great Revolt, which is when it became obvious that war was imminent.

Pappe is biased towards Palestinian emancipation. He explains his position and why in his introductions instead of hiding his bias like some Historians such as Benny Morris.

Here's Pappe's response to Benny Morris, where he debunks Morris' claims:

https://electronicintifada.net/content/response-benny-morris-politics-other-means-new-republic/5040

CAMERA criticisms are easily debunked as seen here:

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/42571

https://mondoweiss.net/2012/03/we-must-expel-arabs-and-take-their-place-institute-for-palestine-studies-publishes-1937-ben-gurion-letter-advocating-the-expulsion-of-palestinians/

"Ben-Gurion’s 5 October 1937 letter thoroughly vindicates Ilan Pappé’s reading; indeed, the Pappé quotes to which CAMERA objects seem almost mild when compared to the actual words Ben-Gurion penned to his son. The more literal translation of the Ben-Gurion direct quote (“We must expel Arabs and take their place”) is actually stronger than Pappé’s freer rendering (“The Arabs must go”), although the meaning is basically the same. As for Pappé’s paraphrase, it is as accurate and comprehensive as any so succinct a sentence could possibly be."

There's plenty of reputable historians praising Pappe's work and credibility. You can find links to them in his wiki page too. The criticisms don't really hold water.

I think you may be unfamiliar with the phrase "official policy" if you're asserting the Prime Minister's letter to his son as such. You're also squinting really hard to avert your gaze from the numerous times Arabs made it abundantly clear they were going to respond to Jewish independence with indiscriminate obliteration no matter how the chain of events transpired. In fact, you responded to a total of 0 points involving genocidal threats made by Arabs before Israel's existence in all three of your comments. 🤔

And yes, I'm sure you're as critical of Pappe as you are of the undoubtedly anti-Semitic views of the Al Jazeera Media Network.

Morris attributes my mistakes for being almost a Palestinian. The moment you are a Palestinian you can only be a bad historian. He detests, as he admits, my siding with the Palestinian narrative of disputed events, such as the debate over the question of who provoked the 1920 and the 1929 riots. Morris relies on the British reports when they endorsed the Zionist claims and disregards the British reports when they endorse the Palestinian claims. I probably do the opposite in many cases, I admit it; he does not. He is an ‘objective’ historian.

Openly admitting bias does not exonerate you from the ways in which it affects the "truth" you report. You're also ignoring the criticism that correctly points out that the chronicling of Israel's history by Pappe can't be reconciled with interconnected events that happened internationally or with the previously available avenues for Jewish emancipation prior to Plan Dalet being adopted as official policy.

I think you may be unfamiliar with the phrase "official policy" if you're asserting the Prime Minister's letter to his son as such.

I suggest you read the links I provided for the Concept of Transfer in Zionist thought and the two links on Plan Dalet if you think there is/was no "official policy."

You're also squinting really hard to avert your gaze from the numerous times Arabs made it abundantly clear they were going to respond to Jewish independence with indiscriminate obliteration no matter how the chain of events transpired. In fact, you responded to a total of 0 points involving genocidal threats made by Arabs before Israel's existence in all three of your comments. 🤔

No, it's more that a few quotes are no justification for doing ethnic cleansing. Especially when there was no military policy that backed up any genocidal threats.

I can't find any evidence of that quote in the photo you posted at all, it's as if they just made it up. The wiki commons for the leaflet say "A leaflet, distributed after the U.N partition resolution, by the Mufti High Command supporters, which calls the Arabs to attack and conquer all of Palestine, to burn all the middle east and cancel the U.N partition resolution." Was Amin antisemitic? Yes. Is it possible the leaflets influenced some people? Yes. Does that represent the majority of Palestinians? Absolutely not. Most Palestinians were anti-zionist because of fears of being ethnically cleansed from their homes, which ended up happening.

The Azzam Pasha quote, which the wiki link goes into, isn't as clear cut.

Horowitz quoted Azzam's gloomy assessment of the situation: "We shall try to defeat you. I am not sure we'll succeed, but we'll try. We were able to drive out the Crusaders, but on the other hand we lost Spain and Persia. It may be that we shall lose Palestine. But it's too late to talk of peaceful solutions."

Ben-Gurion, who was informed of the meeting, summed up Azzam's words thus, in a meeting with members of his party: "As we fought against the Crusaders, we will fight against you, and we will erase you from the earth."

Israeli military officials were quite confident that there was no threat according to New Historians, it's even within the paragraphs you quoted from the wiki. It's even more clear if you read the books and get the full context as to why from the minutes of their meetings and their diary entries.

Plus you ignore the decades of Palestinians officials advocating for a unitary state or what life was and the dispossession of Palestinians like under British occupation.

The real question is why Ben-Gurion wanted partition instead of a unitary binational state that was advocated by the Arab side since 1928 and other Jewish participants within the talks. And the point is Transfer / Settler Colonialism

And yes, I'm sure you're as critical of Pappe as you are of the undoubtedly anti-Semitic views of the Al Jazeera Media Network.

Anti-zionism is not remotely antisemitism. Although, the intentional conflation of them is. As your saying the criticisms of the state of Israel (which doesn't represent all Israeli and not remotely all Jewish people) is the same as genuine antisemitism.

Openly admitting bias does not exonerate you from the ways in which it affects the "truth" you report. You're also ignoring the criticism that correctly points out that the chronicling of Israel's history by Pappe can't be reconciled with interconnected events that happened internationally or with the previously available avenues for Jewish emancipation prior to Plan Dalet being adopted as official policy.

That's just wrong, it definitely does. In fact he has multiple books on it that go into immense detail. There are more historians that agree with Pappe than Morris' criticisms. It basically goes into whether you only believe official Israeli sources or you also cross reference them with additional sources such as the diaries of Israeli officials, Arab sources, and oral history. I highly suggest you try reading the book assuming Pappe is wrong about everything and verifying everything he discusses on your own.

I suggest you read the links I provided for the Concept of Transfer in Zionist thought and the two links on Plan Dalet if you think there is/was no “official policy.”

It's funny you should mention your sources for the Concept of Transfer. This is what originally clued me in on your propagandistic presentation. Nur Masalha obviously failed to conduct credible research, evidenced by his use of works by known fraud, Israel Shahak. Shahak is infamous for taking a personal diary of one Yosef Weitz, who never so much as stepped foot into Jewish government, and deploying it out of context to prove some deep-rooted Zionist conspiracy. Far from being official policy, Weitz later even repudiated the idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shahak

As a public intellectual, Israel Shahak was accused of fabricating the incidents he reported, of blaming the victim, of distorting the normative meaning of Jewish religious texts, and of misrepresenting Jewish belief and law.[37] Paul Bogdanor claimed that Shahak "regaled his audience with a stream of outrageous libels, ludicrous fabrications, and transparent hoaxes. As each successive allegation was exposed and discredited, he would simply proceed to a new invention."[38]

In his book review, Werner Cohn said that Shahak was making "grotesque charges" and that specific passages in Jewish History, Jewish Religion are without foundation:[32] Some are just funny. He says (pp. 23-4) that "Jewish children are actually taught" to utter a ritual curse when passing a non-Jewish cemetery.[b] He also tells us (p. 34) that "both before and after a meal, a pious Jew ritually washes his hands....On one of these two occasions he is worshiping God... but on the other he is worshiping Satan..." I did take the trouble to question my orthodox rabbi nephew to find what might be behind such tall tales. He had no clue. If orthodox Jews were actually taught such hateful things, surely someone would have heard. Whom is Dr. Shahak kidding?.[c]

The main contention among historians is whether or not "Transfer" had remained a contingency in the case of unavoidable war for Jewish independence or a secret plot. What I'm here to address is that you've only presented one interpretation of the events that defined this conflict. There can be a sincere case made for the origins of Zionism disillusionment with a lack of independence being embedded by centuries of persecution, the inhumane practices of Sharia law, and the burgeoning of such practices being galvanized by Islamic revivalists present in the remnants of the collapsed Ottoman Empire. I find it concerning that there is so much one-dimensional rhetoric about Israel's practices of apartheid (to be clear this is not a justification for anything, but rather presenting the unrelenting nature of both sides of the coin) and yet the second-class citizenship associated with that of a Dhimmi is absent.

https://nysba.org/NYSBA/Sections/International/Awards/2016%20Pergam%20Writing%20Competition/submissions/Hellmann%20Ashlea.pdf

  1. Muslim countries where Islam is the official religion and Sharia law has been declared to be a source, or even the only source, of the law, practice a “classical Sharia” system, creating a sort of “government under God.” The fifteen (15) countries that implement this form of Sharia law include: Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, certain regions in Indonesia, the Maldives, Malaysia, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.15 In these countries, Sharia law has a high degree of influence on the entire legal system, including the areas of family and criminal law.16 In Pakistan, Iran, and Iraq, it is also forbidden to enact any legislation that is antithetical to Islam.17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

According to human rights groups, some of the classical sharia practices involve serious violations of basic human rights, gender equality and freedom of expression, and the practices of countries governed by sharia are criticized.[18] The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg (ECtHR) ruled in several cases that Sharia is "incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy".[19][20] Against this, "the concept of human rights" have been categorically excluded by the governments of countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia by claiming that it belongs to secular and western values,[21] and the Cairo conference by the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation declares that human rights can only be respected if they are compatible with Islam.[22]+

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_revival

In the 20th century, figures such as Sayyid Rashid Rida, Hassan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb, Abul A'la Maududi, and Ruhollah Khomeini, have been described as such. Academics often use the terms "Islamist" and "Islamic revivalist" interchangeably.[9][10] Contemporary revivalist currents include Jihadism; neo-Sufism, which cultivates Muslim spirituality; and classical fundamentalism, which stresses obedience to Sharia (Islamic law) and ritual observance.[4]

Next point:

No, it’s more that a few quotes are no justification for doing ethnic cleansing. Especially when there was no military policy that backed up any genocidal threats.

Let's take a step back. If I gave the impression that I am attempting to justify anything, then I've made an error. I've already implied that I condemn both parties that this conflict derived from, I.E. my use of "...unabated mutual extremism". The point here is to remember that I'm presenting what you've failed to include in your campaign, the contested interpretation and the context in totality. War had become unavoidable by 1947, and you can imagine what those Jew's reactions would've been to facing another perceived existential threat.

I can’t find any evidence of that quote in the photo you posted at all, it’s as if they just made it up. The wiki commons for the leaflet say “A leaflet, distributed after the U.N partition resolution, by the Mufti High Command supporters, which calls the Arabs to attack and conquer all of Palestine, to burn all the middle east and cancel the U.N partition resolution.”

I'll admit, it's difficult for me to measure the validity of the original claim because I don't speak Hebrew or Arabic. However, I do know that al-Husseini had already issued several declarations using this exact same Nazi-emulating rhetoric.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

Back in the summer of 1940 and again in February 1941, al-Husseini submitted to the Nazi German Government a draft declaration of German-Arab cooperation, containing a clause: Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy.[185]

Subsequently, al-Husseini declared in November 1943- It is the duty of Muhammadans [Muslims] in general and Arabs in particular to ... drive all Jews from Arab and Muhammadan countries... . Germany is also struggling against the common foe who oppressed Arabs and Muhammadans in their different countries. It has very clearly recognized the Jews for what they are and resolved to find a definitive solution [note: see German translation ] for the Jewish danger that will eliminate the scourge that Jews represent in the world.[205]

Plus you ignore the decades of Palestinians officials advocating for a unitary state or what life was and the dispossession of Palestinians like under British occupation.

I don't blame you for accusing me of this. I'm not some omniscient scholar that can decipher exactly what version of events had occurred or who had the onus of making concessions in order to salvage some kind of unity out of what is otherwise over a century of suffering caused to the innocent bystanders of Palestine. However, I do know that there was enormous unrest in the region both before and after the birth of Zionism, and that I am acutely unqualified to suggest the perfect resolution.

Remember that friction was extremely high between these groups. It's completely possible, had the events occurred differently, that Jews would currently be on the disproportionate receiving end of suffering. I just have absolutely no way of knowing.

Anti-zionism is not remotely antisemitism. Although, the intentional conflation of them is. As your saying the criticisms of the state of Israel (which doesn’t represent all Israeli and not remotely all Jewish people) is the same as genuine antisemitism.

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/25/tony-blinken-qatar-israel-hamas | https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/may/20/al-jazeera-suspends-two-journalists-over-offensive-holocaust-report | https://www.arabnews.com/node/1499786/media | https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/05/24/al-jazeeras-anti-semitism-runs-deep/ | https://www.france24.com/en/20170712-uae-slams-al-jazeera-anti-semitism-inciting-hate

In it, Gargash wrote that Al-Jazeera had "promoted anti-Semitic violence by broadcasting sermons by the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Yusuf al-Qaradawi".

Qaradawi, he added, had "praised Hitler, described the Holocaust as 'divine punishment', and called on Allah to 'take this oppressive, Jewish, Zionist band of people... and kill them, down to the very last one'".

Bud, I would not go there. I could not care less what you choose to label it. Openly supporting systematic annihilation of an entire people is beyond redeemable. It's heinous. And most importantly, it's evil.

I highly suggest you try reading the book assuming Pappe is wrong about everything

Not everything. Definitely all the times he insinuates that Jews had complete and total control over everything and could commit ethnic cleansing whenever the hell they so chose, though.

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Hey Nazi Germany wouldn't exist if they liked or bought Hitler's art.

You might be right, but what's your point? Even logically, there are no parallels to your statement and the ongoing issue in Palestine.

Actually Nazism wouldn't exist if the treaty of Versailles wasn't so punishing Germany economically. The Nazi party got its supporters of disgruntled citizens with the current hardships. And mind you a lot of the initial support of the party was by regular citizens who were viewing them as the only way out of this spiral of despair. There are plenty of articles on the internet explaining exactly this in case you are interested.

And guess what Israel is doing exactly now in both the West Bank and Gaza? Creating the same spiral of despair while calling themselves the good guys. And yes, Hamas probably also wouldn't exist if Gazans and Palestinians were treated equally and with respect by Israel's government. So like it or not the current status quo there only benefits the far right parties and Hamas.

And guess what else, this war in Gaza won't bring any peace to the region, peace can only be brought if both sides are making compromises and in good faith are trying to reach a mutually acceptable long term solution, which I don't see happening anytime soon. That's why so many countries are pushing Israel to seek a two state solution, because this is the only way to some kind of sustainable peace, which your far right government so fervently refuse, because you know they can keep pressing Palestinians, bare them from any basic human rights and dehumanize them in their medias.

Because all these far right parties in Israel are toast without Hamas, they need an immediate threat to fuel the fear of their voters, the same way Hamas is toast without the far right government and parties in Israel.

Wrong, HAMAS formed in late 1987 at the beginning of the first Palestinian intifada. Its roots are in the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Call it whatever you want but if there was never a Sayyid Qutub, there would never have been a Muslim Brotherhood, hence no Hamas.

Hamas was an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, with sheikh yassin as the 'spiritual leader' in 1987. Those links go over the Intifada's and Hamas in detail.

The intifada was a massive protest against the occupation that was ongoing since 1967, so yes there would be no Hamas if there was no occupation.

The First Intifada was a largely spontaneous series of Palestinian demonstrations, nonviolent actions like mass boycotts, civil disobedience, Palestinians refusing to work jobs in Israel, and attacks (using rocks, Molotov cocktails, and occasionally firearms) on Israelis.

-PBS

I gave up weeks ago. Same with the genocide Joe shit. I internalized acceptance this morning after hearing Biden #s in Nevada. Veeeery vocal and astroturfing minority on here. This place doesn't have the cultural identity I feel it purports.

People aren't voting for Biden because of support for Israel, it's for (rightful) fear of Trump.

It's a single issue election, and the issue is Trump. Polling shows increasing support for Palestine and against Israel's actions, even more so amongst Millennials and Gen Z who make up the majority of Lemmy users.

Yes, very thankful that US foreign policy isn't dictated by chronically online Gen Zers.

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Of course they were, but they also won an election

So did Hitler. What's your point?

Did you know that Hamas was headquartered in Damascus until 2012, real legitimate government there huh?

That they didn't as you say "waltz in at gun point". Just as the German people of the time had some responsibility for the rise of Hitler, so must the Palestinian people of today bear some responsibility for putting Hamas in power.

Hence my comments about Hamas's popular support in polling.

Hamas does not have popular support in polling. Don't twist what you said and what the polls say. The support is for the ATTACK Hamas made on Israel, not on Hamas. There is a huge difference.

Agreed but that isn't weird. When's the last time an American president had popular support while in power? 2009? They legally won an election, which means the Palestinian people put them in charge. There was no waltzing, at gunpoint or otherwise.

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