Every time this comes up (which is too often) I'm like "Who is buying this?" How can we make them stop? Do they need help?
People with poor fiscal responsibility skills, such as children, people with ADHD, and people with mental health issues like depression.
They literally hire psychologists to make this stuff as enticing as possible by pushing the right buttons in your brain.
Don't forget the people with more money than sense. Whales are what keep the microtransaction mechanic alive and well.
Except the whale narrative is largely a false narrative created by the game industry to avoid saying that the money comes from kids and gambling addicts.
Those people with more money than sense do exist and they make up a portion of the mtx money, but the vast majority is from people who probably can't afford to make purchases like that (but do anyways because their brain can't say no).
The industry has been honing these skinner box techniques for decades now - it's what they used to get people to pay a monthly subscription for an mmo they only play when they log in to do their dailies.
Jesus. I'm extremely ashamed that I've never questioned the whale narrative before...
Thank you!
Yeah man I know a lot of guys who drop money on shit like this. None of them are “whales”, but i know they’ve dropped hundreds if not thousands on this mtx bs. None of them own homes (which is kinda normal as we are in our 20’s), but only a few of them are even living on their own at all. Something is clearly going on psychologically there, if someone is willing to forego their own needs for cosmetics (that they will later replace with new cosmetics they bought!!)
I never really thought about it beyond the obvious loot box gambling addiction thing, but after I saw somebody talking about how daily quests in games like WoW do the exact same thing as daily login bonuses and keep you logging in every day to create a habit that'll keep you logging in whether you still enjoy the game or not, and how battlepasses and rotating cosmetic stores are designed to prey upon FOMO and people with poor impulse control, I can't stop seeing how the industry runs on exploiting vulnerable people at every turn.
The term whale even came from actual casino gambling originally, so that definitely doesn't help the moral purity of their business.
Yes.
People who spend 10s of thousands of dollars on micro transactions do need help.
Said help probably needs to come at a government level banning things that were designed in a computer lab to be digital Crack.
It's such a shame that the OW1 discussion about loot boxes went nowhere in regards to giving ingame gambling the same legal framework as IRL gambling.
Also kind of crazy that loot boxes were far less predatory than the current ow2 system is. It was very possible to never buy boxes and get everything. Nowadays? No chance
It was possible to get everything but lets not overlook the inherently manipulative framing of either paying or making the game a second job, which cultivates a sunk cost mindset, which might once again make the player pay out of FOMO.
There are reasonable amounts of grind that can make games fun for some people, but the length of grind and the limited timeframes for obtaining items are all geared to feed into the same monetization cycle. All of that artificially, because it's not like any digital game has to clear their storeroom and shelves to make space for new collectibles.
Game companies have been very sly about how they use physical real world metaphors to create justifications for their manipulative systems. Lootboxes too, because you can't guess what's in a closed pack... except the game keeps perfect track of what is available, what you have and what you don't have. The only reason why anyone would get repeated lootbox items, is to lead them on and get them to waste money.
I mean, they also freed me from my pain wanting to play that game, only with their shitty update, so i have to thank Blizzard.
Well, I'm of two minds about that.
To a healthy person, the current system is pricier and more aggressive. Things are constantly being shoved in your face, but they're all purchase-only, and 20€/skin is just absurd.
But, I disagree that it's more predatory. To a vulnerable person, the new system doesn't elicit an addictive response, which loot boxes due to their gambling nature do.
I think FOMO is quite a strong motivator for a addictive person. At least loot boxes were obtainable via playing the game. I wouldn't say I am an excessive gamer, but I still managed to basically get everything over the span of 6 years playing the game. But now you HAVE to spend money to relieve FOMO pressure. Forcing you to spend money is quite predatory.
I agree with this. Overwatch 2 is FOMO galore. It stressed me out.
With Overwatch 1, most content came back later, with exceptions for the charity skin and a few small things.
Anything that costs money to use with a randomised result should be considered gambling.
Yes, it's high time we shut down the kinder surprise gambling dens.
I mean, yeah. Showing what Kinder toy is inside is a small price to pay for a broad stroke gambling law.
It's going to take all kids products with the idea as kinder surprise. All campaigns where you might win something for buying a product you're going to buy anyway. All trading card games. I think there's even an argument to be made that it would make looters, battle royales, even Minecraft as gambling because the end result of your gaming experience is random. Broadstroking all random away simply doesn't work.
Not all random events. Just anything that requires payment to activate a randomised event / prize should be forbidden for children.
Might be the people that play only one game. I used to play WoW and then Diablo III exclusively like it was a full time job, and wound up in social bubbles with people who were equally invested. I never spent money on cosmetics or in-game items or anything but at that point it'd be pretty easy to rationalize since it's something someone is spending 20-80 hours a week playing.
Back in WoW we used to sell one slot on our Algalon raid (hardmode only raid boss) and pay for our Ventrilo and website with that lol
Grubby is a good example of someone who was recently reformed. In one of his early Dota 2 videos (some time last year), he admitted that he didn't know that games outside of Blizzard had gotten so good - he actually only played Blizzard games and nothing else. It's been pretty wholesome watching someone learn the wider gaming world.
I find it bizarre that someone would ever pigeonhole themselves into one developer. I don't even know who makes games half the time. There's only one that I have blocked on Steam.
Every time this comes up (which is too often) I'm like "Who is buying this?" How can we make them stop? Do they need help?
People with poor fiscal responsibility skills, such as children, people with ADHD, and people with mental health issues like depression.
They literally hire psychologists to make this stuff as enticing as possible by pushing the right buttons in your brain.
Don't forget the people with more money than sense. Whales are what keep the microtransaction mechanic alive and well.
Except the whale narrative is largely a false narrative created by the game industry to avoid saying that the money comes from kids and gambling addicts.
Those people with more money than sense do exist and they make up a portion of the mtx money, but the vast majority is from people who probably can't afford to make purchases like that (but do anyways because their brain can't say no).
The industry has been honing these skinner box techniques for decades now - it's what they used to get people to pay a monthly subscription for an mmo they only play when they log in to do their dailies.
Jesus. I'm extremely ashamed that I've never questioned the whale narrative before...
Thank you!
Yeah man I know a lot of guys who drop money on shit like this. None of them are “whales”, but i know they’ve dropped hundreds if not thousands on this mtx bs. None of them own homes (which is kinda normal as we are in our 20’s), but only a few of them are even living on their own at all. Something is clearly going on psychologically there, if someone is willing to forego their own needs for cosmetics (that they will later replace with new cosmetics they bought!!)
I never really thought about it beyond the obvious loot box gambling addiction thing, but after I saw somebody talking about how daily quests in games like WoW do the exact same thing as daily login bonuses and keep you logging in every day to create a habit that'll keep you logging in whether you still enjoy the game or not, and how battlepasses and rotating cosmetic stores are designed to prey upon FOMO and people with poor impulse control, I can't stop seeing how the industry runs on exploiting vulnerable people at every turn.
The term whale even came from actual casino gambling originally, so that definitely doesn't help the moral purity of their business.
Yes.
People who spend 10s of thousands of dollars on micro transactions do need help.
Said help probably needs to come at a government level banning things that were designed in a computer lab to be digital Crack.
It's such a shame that the OW1 discussion about loot boxes went nowhere in regards to giving ingame gambling the same legal framework as IRL gambling.
Also kind of crazy that loot boxes were far less predatory than the current ow2 system is. It was very possible to never buy boxes and get everything. Nowadays? No chance
It was possible to get everything but lets not overlook the inherently manipulative framing of either paying or making the game a second job, which cultivates a sunk cost mindset, which might once again make the player pay out of FOMO.
There are reasonable amounts of grind that can make games fun for some people, but the length of grind and the limited timeframes for obtaining items are all geared to feed into the same monetization cycle. All of that artificially, because it's not like any digital game has to clear their storeroom and shelves to make space for new collectibles.
Game companies have been very sly about how they use physical real world metaphors to create justifications for their manipulative systems. Lootboxes too, because you can't guess what's in a closed pack... except the game keeps perfect track of what is available, what you have and what you don't have. The only reason why anyone would get repeated lootbox items, is to lead them on and get them to waste money.
I mean, they also freed me from my pain wanting to play that game, only with their shitty update, so i have to thank Blizzard.
Well, I'm of two minds about that.
To a healthy person, the current system is pricier and more aggressive. Things are constantly being shoved in your face, but they're all purchase-only, and 20€/skin is just absurd.
But, I disagree that it's more predatory. To a vulnerable person, the new system doesn't elicit an addictive response, which loot boxes due to their gambling nature do.
I think FOMO is quite a strong motivator for a addictive person. At least loot boxes were obtainable via playing the game. I wouldn't say I am an excessive gamer, but I still managed to basically get everything over the span of 6 years playing the game. But now you HAVE to spend money to relieve FOMO pressure. Forcing you to spend money is quite predatory.
I agree with this. Overwatch 2 is FOMO galore. It stressed me out.
With Overwatch 1, most content came back later, with exceptions for the charity skin and a few small things.
Anything that costs money to use with a randomised result should be considered gambling.
Yes, it's high time we shut down the kinder surprise gambling dens.
I mean, yeah. Showing what Kinder toy is inside is a small price to pay for a broad stroke gambling law.
It's going to take all kids products with the idea as kinder surprise. All campaigns where you might win something for buying a product you're going to buy anyway. All trading card games. I think there's even an argument to be made that it would make looters, battle royales, even Minecraft as gambling because the end result of your gaming experience is random. Broadstroking all random away simply doesn't work.
Not all random events. Just anything that requires payment to activate a randomised event / prize should be forbidden for children.
Might be the people that play only one game. I used to play WoW and then Diablo III exclusively like it was a full time job, and wound up in social bubbles with people who were equally invested. I never spent money on cosmetics or in-game items or anything but at that point it'd be pretty easy to rationalize since it's something someone is spending 20-80 hours a week playing.
Back in WoW we used to sell one slot on our Algalon raid (hardmode only raid boss) and pay for our Ventrilo and website with that lol
Grubby is a good example of someone who was recently reformed. In one of his early Dota 2 videos (some time last year), he admitted that he didn't know that games outside of Blizzard had gotten so good - he actually only played Blizzard games and nothing else. It's been pretty wholesome watching someone learn the wider gaming world.
I find it bizarre that someone would ever pigeonhole themselves into one developer. I don't even know who makes games half the time. There's only one that I have blocked on Steam.
Whales, idk if we can make them stop, often times yes they need help