Good.
This is just the "I won't vote for Biden because Israel refuses to sign a ceasefire" bullshit all over again.
Notice how literally none of these people have any problem whatsoever with any of Trump's gaffes?
They have no problem whatsoever with Trump's policies.
They have no problem whatsoever with project 2025.
They have no problem at all that Donald Trump is 79 years old.
But they have a huge fucking problem with the fact that Joe Biden is two and a half years older than Donald Trump.
You would think if they actually gave a damn about the welfare of the country they would be concerned about Donald Trump in the least, yet crickets.
I think it might be a bit of a bold assumption that everyone who thinks Biden is too old to do an effective job and should step aside is a huge Trump supporter.
There are plenty of people who hate Trump with a passion that thinks Biden isn't up to the task of winning this election.
And I’m sure that’s not who they’re talking about. We all know there are many people her that suggest that no one vote for Biden. I’m sure most can name them.
Sure, there absolutely are bad faith arguers but there is also a significant slice of the population that is deathly afraid that Biden will pull a fucking Hillary. He has worked with the DNC to effectively eliminate any other candidates from entering the primaries and if his fucking hubris gets Trump elected he should bear all the blame.
What other candidates were trying to enter the primaries?
You mean which candidates publicly announced an intent to challenge a sitting president in a primary and torpedo their political career?
So then how did he keep them from running? You need to choose a lane and stick with it. Either he purposefully stopped them from running, or they chose not to because of Status-quo.
He didn't invite challengers or step back in advance of the primary. There is such a thing as soft power and he used it to make sure there wasn't a real primary.
When has any candidate ever invited challengers?
Candidates don't "step back", challengers step up. If nobody wants to because the candidate appears certain to win the primary, don't blame the candidate.
He doesn’t dictate the who runs. You said yourself. Career suicide, remember?
We’re done with this now.
Yea, that's an immensely naive view of the world. It's got real "bootstraps" energy: "Why don't those politicians who are trying to enact change just get ostracized from their party and the funding base while facing up against a multi-billion dollar political machine that will grind them into dust and then primary them for their disloyalty at the earliest opportunity."
You're right. They're absolute cowards. They should make more principled stances that hamstring them from actually improving lives - its what Marjorie Taylor Greene would do and we love her. /s
Chose a lane man. When you have, come back and we can discuss this. Otherwise, as I said…. We’re done here.
I did chose a lane - you're just engaging in bad faith conversation tactics. You consider my position to be invalid out of an apparent misled belief that I'm just trolling and therefore are just repeating dead lines to shut down the conversation.
I emigrated up to Canada so I'm fine but my mother is a retiree in the US and a staunch Biden supporter. The debate has her terrified that she'll need to pack up and leave because, to most of us, Biden looks incapable of winning this election. I voted for Hillary even after she used the DNC to muscle out Sanders but she was a deeply flawed candidate and she lost. Biden seems to be on the same trajectory, an establishment darling that is unpopular and struggling to excite the voting base.
Whichever Dem is on the ballot in November is getting my vote but it really looks like Biden is going to fuck us all and get Trump elected again.
Not who you were replying to, but they're out in fucking numbers today aren't they?
Jesus Christ it's like the have a whole troll farm dedicated to Lemmy.
And they can't come up with a better argument than "BiDeN oLd Hur Hur"
Just FYI dude, I'm a real person and accusations of astroturfing are completely unproductive to actually having a conversation.
You added absolutely nothing of value to this thread.
Yep. They’re usually quiet a day or so after something happens, then the get their marching orders to go forth and sew discontent via misinformation. There’s also a shit-ton of vote manipulation happening.
No, it isn't. Biden is letting his fucking pride erode our chances of avoiding a dictatorship.
We'll see how future appearances are but he was incoherent at the debate and if that keeps up it makes another Trump presidency much more likely.
Also, fuck off for blindly assuming what everyone else thinks and assuming everyone who disagrees with you is arguing in bad faith.
We saw this recently with Ruth Bater Ginsberg, too, unfortunately - she could have chosen to step down when Obama was president and secured a democrat nominee in the SCOTUS for 50+ years, but she didn't, and now look where we are.
We're also, unfortunately, seeing this with Sotomayor right now. Though she may also be holding out because she assumes the senate would just block her replacement.
She's an awesome jurist but she has serious health issues.
Most of the people I hear who are bothered by Biden's chances aren't talking about Trump's policies, age or lack of cognitive ability not because they support Trump, quite the opposite. They are scared of a second Trump presidency and are scared that the DNC will drop the ball again, fumble the election by sticking with a poorly liked candidate and they'll have to suffer the consequences of America veering headfirst towards fascism. There's no point to mentioning Trump's similar or more dire issues, because he was never an option to them to begin with.
I don't have faith that the DNC actually cares about the looming threat of fascism, the threat to civil liberties, etc, I think they saw how much in donations they got during the last Trump presidency and the surge in popularity even their most milquetoast center left candidates got and they think they can ride the wave for 4 years.
Bidens admin has done a lot of good and the DNC has been dogshit at demonstrating that with effective messaging. He's also done a lot of things I find abhorrent and in a just world, neither candidate should be eligible as they'd be locked away in The Hague. But that isn't the case, this is America, and I think the powers that be are willing to risk the election to save face.
It's not good. Biden stands the worst chance against Trump, which is why concern trolls are so desperate to shut down and dismiss any discussion of replacing him.
This is just the "I won't vote for Biden because Israel refuses to sign a ceasefire" bullshit all over again.
This is incredibly disingenuous. More like "Because he is arming, supporting and diplomatically protecting a genocidal government." We know it's not his fault Israel are assholes, it's the stuff he is doing that is the problem.
They have no problem whatsoever with Trump's policies.
They have no problem whatsoever with project 2025.
My brother in christ why do you think we want Biden to actually be a good candidate?
Genocide supporting, doddering old Biden is a much better candidate than the unhinged far right felon that wouldn't know the truth if it pissed on his face, BUT HE NEEDS TO WIN THE ELECTION FIRST. If being not as bad as trump was enough Hilary would have won.
It is precisely because I hate trump so much that I want Biden to be better. If you are in a debate with Trump and most people watching think you lost, you fucked up big time. The pigeon you're playing chess with might have shit on the board and felt like he won, but you should have at least done enough so that the audience watching this didn't fucking agree with him.
"I won't vote for Biden because Israel refuses to sign a ceasefire" bullshit
Fun fact: support in the form of weapons and political cover from the governments of the UK, Germany, and ESPECIALLY the US is why the fascist apartheid regime hasn't been FORCED to stop the genocide several months ago.
He knows this and even though the majority of his prospective voters are IMPLORING him to stop participating in a genocide in their name, even though he KNOWS that it's likely to cost him the election and even though he KNOWS that it's likely to be the last one ever if he does lose, he still refuses.
He's putting his Zionist ideology and his stubborn inability to admit fault ahead of not just Gazan lives, but also the survival of American democracy and the universality of international law.
Even KAMALA would be a better choice than someone so completely out of touch with and devoid of respect for the ideals and institutions he's supposed to be protecting.
Still better than Trump, though, so we just have to keep pretending that the old war criminal is perfect, lest the Blue No Matter Who apparatchiks lob spurious allegations of fascist loyalties at us 😮💨🤦
Yes, this is scary, the media are basically all working for Trump, even those who claim the opposite. But they are falling for the Trump foghorn, just as much as any average Joe, where the media are supposed to be professionals and above that.
Falling for NOTHING the trump campaign is going to give the media millions of dollars for advertising spots. The media have a vested interest in keeping the horse race going.
Notice how literally none of these people have any problem whatsoever with any of Trump’s gaffes?
What? Which people?
Trumps a client of a pedophile sex trafficking ring that had his dealer assassinated. He built his political career on the racist conspiracy that Obama was born in Kenya, colluded with Russia to become president, appointed climate change deniers to head the EPA and Dept of Energy, appointed public education deniers to head the Dept of Education, oil isnt bad enough for the environment for him so he endorses coal, was antivax before republicans thought it was cool, and nothing else on this world is closer to convincing me of the Bible than the idea that Trump is the antichrist.
But no trump supporter is going to see this
I’ve been pointing all of this out for a while now. Ask any of them about these issues and they have no answer at all. They just divert the discussion back to gEnOciDe jOe.
Everyone needs to hold these trolls accountable for what they’d say. Ask them to answer why they seem to not care about Trump and what he’s promised to do.
There's rational criticism to be against Biden but most the critical mass of outrage over his debate performance is hysterical * and takes air time from valid concerns regarding his ability to preserve the Union. *
Something I've noticed is that if something is posted with a positive view of Biden there's a fairly consistent pattern where it gets up voted initially but as the day gets later and more into the daytime hours of your Russia/China side of the world the down votes start to come in. One can speculate on that for what it's worth I guess...
You mean like how the one guy who disagrees and thinks Biden should step down went up 8 points in the last 2 minutes and we all went down?
Yeah I noticed that too.
I'm a real person downvoting you because you're delusional. This is a massively wide concern reflected in polls and being expressed by Democratic cheerleaders like Pod Save America. I have a hard time believing any of you live in a world so insulated that you think this is just trolls and media manipulation.
The only polls that matter are Biden vs Trump, and those haven't really changed post-debate.
Sentiment polls absolutely do matter when the question is whether the sentiment is only coming from trolls and biased media.
I know Finland isn't exactly friendly with Russia, but the fact that you argue this from an instance run by someone a hop and a skip from Moscow is a beautiful irony...
All trolls, no, but given the notorious prevalence of media manipulation seen out of the region it's a given that some not insignificant portion of the loudest voices are here looking to cause trouble.
Wait, do you actually think everyone on a Finnish instance is from Finland? That's really really stupid.
I've had people think since my mastodon account ends in todon.eu they think I'm like a secret agent, but too stupid to notice that the .eu would give me away. It's Qanon-level of thinking, of how there's secret clues everywhere that only they can see but the shadow cabal left them there for the truthers to find.
All the best Russian influence agents join servers that are in close proximity to their office. I moved from lemmy.world to sopuli after .world's performance was unreliable because they seemed to have a reasonable block list and were in the goldilocks zone of neither too big nor too small. And my mastodon account is hosted on an EU server because I don't think the US has good data privacy rules. Turns out internet services still work when it's overnight in their home time zone.
Good.
This is just the "I won't vote for Biden because Israel refuses to sign a ceasefire" bullshit all over again.
Notice how literally none of these people have any problem whatsoever with any of Trump's gaffes?
They have no problem whatsoever with Trump's policies. They have no problem whatsoever with project 2025. They have no problem at all that Donald Trump is 79 years old.
But they have a huge fucking problem with the fact that Joe Biden is two and a half years older than Donald Trump.
You would think if they actually gave a damn about the welfare of the country they would be concerned about Donald Trump in the least, yet crickets.
I think it might be a bit of a bold assumption that everyone who thinks Biden is too old to do an effective job and should step aside is a huge Trump supporter.
There are plenty of people who hate Trump with a passion that thinks Biden isn't up to the task of winning this election.
And I’m sure that’s not who they’re talking about. We all know there are many people her that suggest that no one vote for Biden. I’m sure most can name them.
Sure, there absolutely are bad faith arguers but there is also a significant slice of the population that is deathly afraid that Biden will pull a fucking Hillary. He has worked with the DNC to effectively eliminate any other candidates from entering the primaries and if his fucking hubris gets Trump elected he should bear all the blame.
What other candidates were trying to enter the primaries?
You mean which candidates publicly announced an intent to challenge a sitting president in a primary and torpedo their political career?
So then how did he keep them from running? You need to choose a lane and stick with it. Either he purposefully stopped them from running, or they chose not to because of Status-quo.
He didn't invite challengers or step back in advance of the primary. There is such a thing as soft power and he used it to make sure there wasn't a real primary.
When has any candidate ever invited challengers?
Candidates don't "step back", challengers step up. If nobody wants to because the candidate appears certain to win the primary, don't blame the candidate.
He doesn’t dictate the who runs. You said yourself. Career suicide, remember?
We’re done with this now.
Yea, that's an immensely naive view of the world. It's got real "bootstraps" energy: "Why don't those politicians who are trying to enact change just get ostracized from their party and the funding base while facing up against a multi-billion dollar political machine that will grind them into dust and then primary them for their disloyalty at the earliest opportunity."
You're right. They're absolute cowards. They should make more principled stances that hamstring them from actually improving lives - its what Marjorie Taylor Greene would do and we love her. /s
Chose a lane man. When you have, come back and we can discuss this. Otherwise, as I said…. We’re done here.
I did chose a lane - you're just engaging in bad faith conversation tactics. You consider my position to be invalid out of an apparent misled belief that I'm just trolling and therefore are just repeating dead lines to shut down the conversation.
I emigrated up to Canada so I'm fine but my mother is a retiree in the US and a staunch Biden supporter. The debate has her terrified that she'll need to pack up and leave because, to most of us, Biden looks incapable of winning this election. I voted for Hillary even after she used the DNC to muscle out Sanders but she was a deeply flawed candidate and she lost. Biden seems to be on the same trajectory, an establishment darling that is unpopular and struggling to excite the voting base.
Whichever Dem is on the ballot in November is getting my vote but it really looks like Biden is going to fuck us all and get Trump elected again.
Not who you were replying to, but they're out in fucking numbers today aren't they?
Jesus Christ it's like the have a whole troll farm dedicated to Lemmy.
And they can't come up with a better argument than "BiDeN oLd Hur Hur"
Just FYI dude, I'm a real person and accusations of astroturfing are completely unproductive to actually having a conversation.
You added absolutely nothing of value to this thread.
Yep. They’re usually quiet a day or so after something happens, then the get their marching orders to go forth and sew discontent via misinformation. There’s also a shit-ton of vote manipulation happening.
We all need to be calling this shit out.
No, it isn't. Biden is letting his fucking pride erode our chances of avoiding a dictatorship.
We'll see how future appearances are but he was incoherent at the debate and if that keeps up it makes another Trump presidency much more likely.
Also, fuck off for blindly assuming what everyone else thinks and assuming everyone who disagrees with you is arguing in bad faith.
We saw this recently with Ruth Bater Ginsberg, too, unfortunately - she could have chosen to step down when Obama was president and secured a democrat nominee in the SCOTUS for 50+ years, but she didn't, and now look where we are.
We're also, unfortunately, seeing this with Sotomayor right now. Though she may also be holding out because she assumes the senate would just block her replacement.
She's an awesome jurist but she has serious health issues.
Most of the people I hear who are bothered by Biden's chances aren't talking about Trump's policies, age or lack of cognitive ability not because they support Trump, quite the opposite. They are scared of a second Trump presidency and are scared that the DNC will drop the ball again, fumble the election by sticking with a poorly liked candidate and they'll have to suffer the consequences of America veering headfirst towards fascism. There's no point to mentioning Trump's similar or more dire issues, because he was never an option to them to begin with.
I don't have faith that the DNC actually cares about the looming threat of fascism, the threat to civil liberties, etc, I think they saw how much in donations they got during the last Trump presidency and the surge in popularity even their most milquetoast center left candidates got and they think they can ride the wave for 4 years.
Bidens admin has done a lot of good and the DNC has been dogshit at demonstrating that with effective messaging. He's also done a lot of things I find abhorrent and in a just world, neither candidate should be eligible as they'd be locked away in The Hague. But that isn't the case, this is America, and I think the powers that be are willing to risk the election to save face.
It's not good. Biden stands the worst chance against Trump, which is why concern trolls are so desperate to shut down and dismiss any discussion of replacing him.
This is incredibly disingenuous. More like "Because he is arming, supporting and diplomatically protecting a genocidal government." We know it's not his fault Israel are assholes, it's the stuff he is doing that is the problem.
My brother in christ why do you think we want Biden to actually be a good candidate?
Genocide supporting, doddering old Biden is a much better candidate than the unhinged far right felon that wouldn't know the truth if it pissed on his face, BUT HE NEEDS TO WIN THE ELECTION FIRST. If being not as bad as trump was enough Hilary would have won.
It is precisely because I hate trump so much that I want Biden to be better. If you are in a debate with Trump and most people watching think you lost, you fucked up big time. The pigeon you're playing chess with might have shit on the board and felt like he won, but you should have at least done enough so that the audience watching this didn't fucking agree with him.
Fun fact: support in the form of weapons and political cover from the governments of the UK, Germany, and ESPECIALLY the US is why the fascist apartheid regime hasn't been FORCED to stop the genocide several months ago.
He knows this and even though the majority of his prospective voters are IMPLORING him to stop participating in a genocide in their name, even though he KNOWS that it's likely to cost him the election and even though he KNOWS that it's likely to be the last one ever if he does lose, he still refuses.
He's putting his Zionist ideology and his stubborn inability to admit fault ahead of not just Gazan lives, but also the survival of American democracy and the universality of international law.
Even KAMALA would be a better choice than someone so completely out of touch with and devoid of respect for the ideals and institutions he's supposed to be protecting.
Still better than Trump, though, so we just have to keep pretending that the old war criminal is perfect, lest the Blue No Matter Who apparatchiks lob spurious allegations of fascist loyalties at us 😮💨🤦
Yes, this is scary, the media are basically all working for Trump, even those who claim the opposite. But they are falling for the Trump foghorn, just as much as any average Joe, where the media are supposed to be professionals and above that.
Falling for NOTHING the trump campaign is going to give the media millions of dollars for advertising spots. The media have a vested interest in keeping the horse race going.
What? Which people?
Trumps a client of a pedophile sex trafficking ring that had his dealer assassinated. He built his political career on the racist conspiracy that Obama was born in Kenya, colluded with Russia to become president, appointed climate change deniers to head the EPA and Dept of Energy, appointed public education deniers to head the Dept of Education, oil isnt bad enough for the environment for him so he endorses coal, was antivax before republicans thought it was cool, and nothing else on this world is closer to convincing me of the Bible than the idea that Trump is the antichrist.
But no trump supporter is going to see this
I’ve been pointing all of this out for a while now. Ask any of them about these issues and they have no answer at all. They just divert the discussion back to gEnOciDe jOe.
Everyone needs to hold these trolls accountable for what they’d say. Ask them to answer why they seem to not care about Trump and what he’s promised to do.
There's rational criticism to be against Biden but most the critical mass of outrage over his debate performance is hysterical * and takes air time from valid concerns regarding his ability to preserve the Union. *
Something I've noticed is that if something is posted with a positive view of Biden there's a fairly consistent pattern where it gets up voted initially but as the day gets later and more into the daytime hours of your Russia/China side of the world the down votes start to come in. One can speculate on that for what it's worth I guess...
You mean like how the one guy who disagrees and thinks Biden should step down went up 8 points in the last 2 minutes and we all went down?
Yeah I noticed that too.
I'm a real person downvoting you because you're delusional. This is a massively wide concern reflected in polls and being expressed by Democratic cheerleaders like Pod Save America. I have a hard time believing any of you live in a world so insulated that you think this is just trolls and media manipulation.
The only polls that matter are Biden vs Trump, and those haven't really changed post-debate.
Sentiment polls absolutely do matter when the question is whether the sentiment is only coming from trolls and biased media.
I know Finland isn't exactly friendly with Russia, but the fact that you argue this from an instance run by someone a hop and a skip from Moscow is a beautiful irony...
All trolls, no, but given the notorious prevalence of media manipulation seen out of the region it's a given that some not insignificant portion of the loudest voices are here looking to cause trouble.
Wait, do you actually think everyone on a Finnish instance is from Finland? That's really really stupid.
I've had people think since my mastodon account ends in
todon.euthey think I'm like a secret agent, but too stupid to notice that the.euwould give me away. It's Qanon-level of thinking, of how there's secret clues everywhere that only they can see but the shadow cabal left them there for the truthers to find.All the best Russian influence agents join servers that are in close proximity to their office. I moved from lemmy.world to sopuli after .world's performance was unreliable because they seemed to have a reasonable block list and were in the goldilocks zone of neither too big nor too small. And my mastodon account is hosted on an EU server because I don't think the US has good data privacy rules. Turns out internet services still work when it's overnight in their home time zone.