I love this! I just cannot wait for the day that I can build a RISC or ARM64 desktop in the same way we would an Intel or AMD one. I realize though that this is still a ways out.
Getting there—the last time I checked, Gentoo had enough stuff with ~riscv keywords to produce a KDE desktop with Firefox, a media player, email, and some other useful software. If Firefox is completely functional, that alone would be enough for some people. Still not user-friendly to install, though, because Gentoo. Debian's better at that part. Anyway, if you can get the hardware, the software is edging up on "possible".
It's not long ago Pine64 announced their Pinetab-V with RISC-V infrastructure and absolutely no software support, now people are already running KDE Plasma and watching YouTube videos with it. It doesn't sound like a lot, but I'm amazed how fast it's developing.
I really don't think we're that far away from being able to run RISK-V as a daily driver for basic computing.
And I gotta say, my partner recently got a M1 MacBook Air, and while I have many reservations about the device I'm jealous about the fanlessnes and battery life. So I'd absolutely be interested in being an early adopter.
FreeBSD has had kde on riscV for a bit now, if they can do it I can’t imagine Debian et all will have much issue once they get the ball rolling.
People are running KDE desktop on the VisionFive 2.
Arch Linux has had a RISC-V port for quite a while now - FYI, just in case you don't know, Felix (the guy running the website I linked) is one of the Arch Linux package maintainers.
It's probably gonna happen sooner than you think, I'm happy to say. You can already buy desktop motherboards that come with decently powerful ARM CPUs. The options are very limited of course and you're probably not gonna have the best experience, but we're getting there.
Sweet! That is good news. Given the power efficiency of ARM CPUs when compared to Intel and AMD, well, there just really is no comparison.
A ton of stuff we take for granted will have to be recompiled and you can forget even trying to use Proton to play x86/x64 Windows games without some weird flaky hacks and actual virtualization, since it's only a translation layer.
okay? so stop making progress because some games might not work? doesn't sound reasonable.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying there's a lot of work to do ahead.
ah, well that's a reasonable take. cool profile pic btw!
Can somebody ELI5 this to a normal tech person who is aware of the RISC5, but has no idea why everyone is so excited about this?
Why is this exciting?
Is there a future where this replaces x86 CPUs in the desktop / laptop?
Will emulation or translation layers allow x86 applications to run on RISC CPUs?
I'm also just a normal tech person, so my answers may be inaccurate.
My understanding is:
ARM seems superior in the mobile computing domain where efficiency matters more than raw power. I wonder if that's related to the RISC vs CISC instructions... if that's the case, having an open architecture alternative to ARM would allow any manufacturer to create their CPU designs without having to pay a hefty fee to ARM. Should bring more competition and won't keep manufacturers hostage of ARM. If ARMs raises their royalties 1000x, Apple, Qualcomm etc just have to comply for lack of alternatives, and consumers end up paying the price. This won't be possible with RISC-V
I can definitely see this happening, or at least having the option. OSs and apps will have to build for that new architecture of course, which takes time and money. I'm personally particularly excited about laptops
I guess. I don't think it's ever impossible to do this, it's always a matter of how much of an impact it has on performances
If I said something stupid, please let me know, I'd like to learn about this!
Just to clarify a few points in #1: CISC has gone largely (entirely?) extinct, so it doesn't play into this.
Arm processors are more efficient than x86, but Risc-v is even more efficient than Arm, giving them an edge in cheap, low power computing. However, some companies have started experimenting with Risc-v for HPC applications, so it's turning out more versatile than expected.
Just this week there was also news of a bunch of companies banding together to develop Risc-v chips for automobile and Telecom, so don't be surprised if we get Risc-v smartphones and tablets in the near future.
#1: CISC has gone largely (entirely?) extinct
Citation needed? Isn't x86 considered a CISC?
Yes and no. AFAIK when coding assembler for these chips you use CISC-instructions but they get translated into RISC-instructions by a hardcoded mikroprocessing-unit (not sure about the real term). So the processor itself gets RISC-instructions.
I just hope at least on PC/Laptop there are this kind of chips that's so powerful that we can have 1 weeks full of battery...
It would more likely be that the battery lasts 10-20% longer than ARM. You won't triple or quadruple efficiency with just an architecture change unless it is world-changing new tech
The problem is ARM laptop isn't even available in 3rd world country like mine. I still waiting tho, even if it's exists, it's expensive as expensive buying a high end motorcycle... worth of 3x yearly salary
So are there any laptops or computers using RISC? First time hearing about this. (edit: fixed typo)
Lots of single-board computers. I think Pine64 has a RISC-V tablet coming out. And Framework, bless their souls, have floated the idea of offering motherboards for their laptops that are ARM64 or RISC-V. Let us hope and pray.
There's currently only two Risc-v laptops that I've heard of: The Alibaba Roma and the Balthazar Personal Computing Device.
Most development is currently happening in SBCs and microcontrollers.
I love this! I just cannot wait for the day that I can build a RISC or ARM64 desktop in the same way we would an Intel or AMD one. I realize though that this is still a ways out.
Getting there—the last time I checked, Gentoo had enough stuff with ~riscv keywords to produce a KDE desktop with Firefox, a media player, email, and some other useful software. If Firefox is completely functional, that alone would be enough for some people. Still not user-friendly to install, though, because Gentoo. Debian's better at that part. Anyway, if you can get the hardware, the software is edging up on "possible".
It's not long ago Pine64 announced their Pinetab-V with RISC-V infrastructure and absolutely no software support, now people are already running KDE Plasma and watching YouTube videos with it. It doesn't sound like a lot, but I'm amazed how fast it's developing.
I really don't think we're that far away from being able to run RISK-V as a daily driver for basic computing.
And I gotta say, my partner recently got a M1 MacBook Air, and while I have many reservations about the device I'm jealous about the fanlessnes and battery life. So I'd absolutely be interested in being an early adopter.
FreeBSD has had kde on riscV for a bit now, if they can do it I can’t imagine Debian et all will have much issue once they get the ball rolling.
People are running KDE desktop on the VisionFive 2.
Arch Linux has had a RISC-V port for quite a while now - FYI, just in case you don't know, Felix (the guy running the website I linked) is one of the Arch Linux package maintainers.
It's probably gonna happen sooner than you think, I'm happy to say. You can already buy desktop motherboards that come with decently powerful ARM CPUs. The options are very limited of course and you're probably not gonna have the best experience, but we're getting there.
Sweet! That is good news. Given the power efficiency of ARM CPUs when compared to Intel and AMD, well, there just really is no comparison.
A ton of stuff we take for granted will have to be recompiled and you can forget even trying to use Proton to play x86/x64 Windows games without some weird flaky hacks and actual virtualization, since it's only a translation layer.
okay? so stop making progress because some games might not work? doesn't sound reasonable.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying there's a lot of work to do ahead.
ah, well that's a reasonable take. cool profile pic btw!
https://i.imgur.io/JJkewkq\_d.webp
so is mine 💁♂️
We said the same about ARM a while back
You say that, but people already got Stardew Valley to work on RISCV Linux!
Note that it is a link to Reddit. The post is made by the Box64 developer though, that's why I linked it.
RISC is good
Hack the Planet!
Let me go get my axe!
And my bow!
RISC is going to change everything.
Can somebody ELI5 this to a normal tech person who is aware of the RISC5, but has no idea why everyone is so excited about this?
I'm also just a normal tech person, so my answers may be inaccurate.
My understanding is:
If I said something stupid, please let me know, I'd like to learn about this!
Just to clarify a few points in #1: CISC has gone largely (entirely?) extinct, so it doesn't play into this. Arm processors are more efficient than x86, but Risc-v is even more efficient than Arm, giving them an edge in cheap, low power computing. However, some companies have started experimenting with Risc-v for HPC applications, so it's turning out more versatile than expected. Just this week there was also news of a bunch of companies banding together to develop Risc-v chips for automobile and Telecom, so don't be surprised if we get Risc-v smartphones and tablets in the near future.
Citation needed? Isn't x86 considered a CISC?
Yes and no. AFAIK when coding assembler for these chips you use CISC-instructions but they get translated into RISC-instructions by a hardcoded mikroprocessing-unit (not sure about the real term). So the processor itself gets RISC-instructions.
In reality it seems to be more complicated: https://fanael.github.io/is-x86-risc-internally.html
Ask and ye shall recieve:
https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PineTab-V
I just hope at least on PC/Laptop there are this kind of chips that's so powerful that we can have 1 weeks full of battery...
It would more likely be that the battery lasts 10-20% longer than ARM. You won't triple or quadruple efficiency with just an architecture change unless it is world-changing new tech
The problem is ARM laptop isn't even available in 3rd world country like mine. I still waiting tho, even if it's exists, it's expensive as expensive buying a high end motorcycle... worth of 3x yearly salary
So are there any laptops or computers using RISC? First time hearing about this. (edit: fixed typo)
Lots of single-board computers. I think Pine64 has a RISC-V tablet coming out. And Framework, bless their souls, have floated the idea of offering motherboards for their laptops that are ARM64 or RISC-V. Let us hope and pray.
I can't wait for laptops using RISC-V
the risc v pine64 tablet is out, it also comes with a keyboard
There's currently only two Risc-v laptops that I've heard of: The Alibaba Roma and the Balthazar Personal Computing Device. Most development is currently happening in SBCs and microcontrollers.