I resent the ubiquity of the language of sports in political matters. It is reductive in framing and trivial in tone.
Me too, well said.
It's incredibly gross to see these two groups as "teams" competing against one another while fans watch from the sidelines for entertainment.
That's why I stopped trying.
People arguing whether babies were beheaded as if they're challenging a ref call. Their team is always right and 100% just, the other is always wrong and 100% evil and no one wants to hear that the truth is always gray and complex.
It's disheartening.
You could copy and paste a list of historical events from Wikipedia and spark a flame war, unfortunately.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move"
Douglas Adams
With how many atrocities occur in this messed up world (and the Middle East especially), it’s hard to keep caring and see it as anything other than a sport in a faraway place.
The news is emotionally draining on purpose, or so I think.
@knexcar compassion fatigue? This is something social media can help with, ironically.
I remember a few years ago when I was back on another site, a poster who was trialling 3D-printed field tourniquets (he was a medic) posted about his experience being shot in the leg by Israeli snipers who shot his colleague dead later that day.
Really brought home that these are just people like you and me, with hobbies and jobs and lives... and comment histories.
"Team" isn't a term used exclusively in the domain of sporting contests. In fact, it is a military term, as well (although not as ubiquitous in that space).
Analytic and technical terms are sterile and effect a dehumanization of not only the actors involved, but also the outcomes of events.
I was going to say, I hear it plenty in informal settings in politics, business, and military. Probably not a great phrase to let the press get a hold of though.
I would contend in turn that politics, business, and military matters are necessarily either formal or farcical.
That's about the gist of it. Either you are taking it seriously, or using humor to cope. The line between the two isn't always clear.
"team" by itself just means a group of people working together to achieve a common goal, BUT when used in the context of "the other team" (with the definite article) it implies there are two teams working in opposition to one another specifically.
@Gradually_Adjusting's idea that this is most likely intended as a sports metaphor for Biden's audience seems reasonable.
I can't decide whether you're saying "team" is analytical and sterile/dehumanizing, or whether you're suggesting that actually calling Hamas "Hamas" would have been dehumanizing.
Well, the full quote is:
And based on what I’ve seen that appears as though it was done by the other team, not you,
He is refering to the Israeli evidence given, he's not giving new information distinct from that
He is refering to the Israeli evidence given
Which is still dumb as fuck...
Israel has shown time and time again they'll exaggerate evidence or flat out make it up.
They went full fascist long ago. And fascists first instinct is always to say evidence proves theyre right, but then try not to show anyone because it was a lie.
He is refering to the Israeli evidence given. Which is still dumb as fuck…
you know that the initial claim was straight from the Hamas itself, right?
If you're saying Hamas said that Hamas blew up their own hospital in Gaza...
No, I haven't heard that and I'm going to need an actual source saying that. And Israel's government doesn't count because obviously they're not a reliable source.
Man, you can really tell who hasn't engaged with the matter aside from headlines.
Not even Israel claims that it was Hamas who fired the rocket. You would know that, if you would have spend just a little bit of your time actually reading articles instead of just commenting under them.
I know what happened.
I just dont know what nonsense Israel and their defenders are claiming these days.
You never know what someone's opinion is by going off what facts are.
If you’re saying Hamas said that Hamas blew up their own hospital in Gaza…No, I haven’t heard that and I’m going to need an actual source saying that.
The initial claim was that Israel did blew up the hospital and this claim was made by the Hamas Ministry of Health itself.
So yeah, if something gets blown up in Gaza, who else is likely responsible?
If Gaza said the sun was coming up tomorrow would you say it wouldn't?
So yeah, if something gets blown up in Gaza, who else is likely responsible?
The Hamas or some other terror group appareantly. Are you even reading what this is about here? Your lack of knowledge is a little bit embarrassing. Current evidence is showing that a mislead rocket by some jihad group hit the hospital and not the Israel military.
Current evidence
What evidence?
Israel claiming they didn't do it?
They lie about this stuff constantly so why would anyone believe them?
Israel is bombing Gaza indiscriminately, if something blows up in Gaza, I'm going to need actual evidence it wasn't Israel, not just Israel claiming they have evidence it wasn't them
The group cited several clips believed to be of the explosion from different sources and claimed the “geolocation and timing of the footage is conclusive”. However, they said their conclusions are not “proven fact”.
“That doesn’t mean that they are THE truth, just what we think is highly likely based on our geolocations(facts) and logic/reason,” they wrote on Twitter.
“We are geolocators, not official investigators… To be sure what really happened, different official investigations are needed.”
Israel and the US have a lot more information and video...
Hamas and "independent investigators" don't have that technology.
If there was proof it wasnt Israel, we'd all have seen it by now.
I see I'm wasting my time. Enjoy your ignorance.
Wait...
So you didn't not believe your source that what they can guess from public video isn't proof?
They lie about this stuff constantly so why would anyone believe them?
But you do believe a ministry which is led by a terror group? Okay.
I for myself will make my conclusion when the evidence is verified by different, independent sources. For now I dont believe any of them and it could be done by either of them.
you are talking to someone so far int he deep end. i doubt its really worth engaging, judging by how they are responding everywhere.
"the initial claim" as in Hamas said that it was Israel.
Well, who else would have done it?
Elon Musk and Harlem Globetrotters?
Pretty disgusting to joke about this shit like that.
The evidence seems to suggest that it was not Israel. But I am sure you will provide better evidence instead of just malding on the internet, correct?
"The evidence" that Israel won't release and shows they didn't blow up the hospital in the area they've been bombing?
I'm gonna need to see the evidence because Israel repeatedly lies about this stuff.
I'm just going in circles here, what don't you understand?
Then again, the other side is Hamas and Islamic Jihad with so far no evidence. I am not trusting Israel blindly, but neither do I trust those two blindly. It's entirely possible that Islamic Jihad fucked up big time and Hamas tried to pin this on Israel. As far as fact checking goes, it probably needs a bit more time, but so far Israel's claims and evidence seem to check out.
No, the "other side" is all the civilians stuck between two genocidal militaries that don't see the other sides civilians as humans.
Neither militaries are the "good guys".
But if you can only understand black and white conflicts:
The difference is Gaza's last election was before the majority of its citizens were born. And Israel has mandated military service and choose to have their current government
The other side of statememts regarding who is at fault for attack on the hospital.
But why would Hamas blow up a Palestinian hospital?
How is that as likely to you as the country that keeps bombing the area hit the hospital either and intentionally or "on accident"?
You're acting like it's a 50/50 chance
It's frustrating to argue with you, because you did not bother at all.
First of all: it's not Hamas, even by what Israel said. It's Islamic Jihad.
Secondly: it wasn't on purpose by that argumentation, it was a failed rocket launch. It would not be the first time a militant group with makeshift rockets had an accident, although this would be particularly lethal.
It's astonishing how much passion you put into your comments while refusing to actually read about what you talk about.
It’s frustrating to argue with you,
Maybe dont reply to all my comments in a chain if I take longer ngee than 2 minutes to reply to you?
Hell. Just block me, I'd appreciate that. Especially since you keep making personal insults.
It never complained about the time to take. I am talking about your lack of knowledge in the matter discussed.
I am trying to help you here. I told you that you lack knowledge, I also straight up told you where.
I told you that you lack knowledge
Because Im not taking Israels claim (that so far hasn't been backed up by any evidence)...
I don't "lack knowledge" I just don't trust a government that repeatedly claims to be innocent for war crimes they commit, then later we find out they committed.
Apologies for the Daily Mail, but this is an audio recording of two Hamas fighters discussing the blast and stating it was from a botched rocket launch in a graveyard behind the hospital.
You can say they just made this up, but at that point you should at least admit that there is no possible evidence that would change your mind and that your view is completely inflexible.
What's wild is that on Twitter, the official Israel account posted video "proof" of it being a rocket misfire has now edited their tweets to remove the video. Most likely because the videos are timestamped 20 minutes after the first reports of the hospital blast.
Ultimately, I'm waiting for some independent groups to analyze everything before making a firm conclusion. I've seen several different videos purporting to be the rocket, and now I'm seeing images that the only real damage was to a parking lot outside with a blast that really doesn't look like a military bomb.
Speaking alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Biden said: "I was deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion of the hospital in Gaza yesterday, and based on what I've seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you."
"But there's a lot of people out there not sure, so we’ve got a lot, we’ve got to overcome a lot of things," Biden added.
If they have proof that the hospital attack was a Hamas misfire, I will hear their information.
I've watched every video they've posted, and every one seems like a patriot system intercepting a missile. So I keep holding out for a video that shows the moment of the hospital destruction, but so far, no luck.
I am starting to think we might never know, considering that Biden is going to commit to this story. Whether it can be verified or not.
Though, as far as Israel being the intelligence capital of the middle east. Let's just say, I've received better reporting/verification from Ukraine operations and they don't get 5 billion a year for intelligence.
Edit: new video has been discovered of the incident,
So I keep holding out for a video that shows the moment of the hospital destruction, but so far, no luck.
You won't get it. Remember that Hamas rockets are like two steps removed from being made in somebody's backyard. They don't have this kind of firepower.
Edit: I'd seen a wrong picture. Nevermind.
Netanyahu's spokesman also boasted that Israel did the attack.
There are drone videos showing destroyed cars in a parking lot and the hospital standing.
I resent the ubiquity of the language of sports in political matters. It is reductive in framing and trivial in tone.
Me too, well said.
It's incredibly gross to see these two groups as "teams" competing against one another while fans watch from the sidelines for entertainment.
That's why I stopped trying.
People arguing whether babies were beheaded as if they're challenging a ref call. Their team is always right and 100% just, the other is always wrong and 100% evil and no one wants to hear that the truth is always gray and complex.
It's disheartening.
You could copy and paste a list of historical events from Wikipedia and spark a flame war, unfortunately.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move"
With how many atrocities occur in this messed up world (and the Middle East especially), it’s hard to keep caring and see it as anything other than a sport in a faraway place.
The news is emotionally draining on purpose, or so I think.
@knexcar compassion fatigue? This is something social media can help with, ironically.
I remember a few years ago when I was back on another site, a poster who was trialling 3D-printed field tourniquets (he was a medic) posted about his experience being shot in the leg by Israeli snipers who shot his colleague dead later that day.
Really brought home that these are just people like you and me, with hobbies and jobs and lives... and comment histories.
"Team" isn't a term used exclusively in the domain of sporting contests. In fact, it is a military term, as well (although not as ubiquitous in that space).
Analytic and technical terms are sterile and effect a dehumanization of not only the actors involved, but also the outcomes of events.
I was going to say, I hear it plenty in informal settings in politics, business, and military. Probably not a great phrase to let the press get a hold of though.
I would contend in turn that politics, business, and military matters are necessarily either formal or farcical.
That's about the gist of it. Either you are taking it seriously, or using humor to cope. The line between the two isn't always clear.
@Telodzrum
@Gradually_Adjusting's idea that this is most likely intended as a sports metaphor for Biden's audience seems reasonable.
Well, the full quote is:
He is refering to the Israeli evidence given, he's not giving new information distinct from that
Which is still dumb as fuck...
Israel has shown time and time again they'll exaggerate evidence or flat out make it up.
They went full fascist long ago. And fascists first instinct is always to say evidence proves theyre right, but then try not to show anyone because it was a lie.
you know that the initial claim was straight from the Hamas itself, right?
If you're saying Hamas said that Hamas blew up their own hospital in Gaza...
No, I haven't heard that and I'm going to need an actual source saying that. And Israel's government doesn't count because obviously they're not a reliable source.
Man, you can really tell who hasn't engaged with the matter aside from headlines.
Not even Israel claims that it was Hamas who fired the rocket. You would know that, if you would have spend just a little bit of your time actually reading articles instead of just commenting under them.
I know what happened.
I just dont know what nonsense Israel and their defenders are claiming these days.
You never know what someone's opinion is by going off what facts are.
The initial claim was that Israel did blew up the hospital and this claim was made by the Hamas Ministry of Health itself.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-dropped-more-bombs-on-gaza-in-6-days-than-the-us-led-coalition-dropped-in-any-month-fighting-isis/ar-AA1ibcxo
So yeah, if something gets blown up in Gaza, who else is likely responsible?
If Gaza said the sun was coming up tomorrow would you say it wouldn't?
The Hamas or some other terror group appareantly. Are you even reading what this is about here? Your lack of knowledge is a little bit embarrassing. Current evidence is showing that a mislead rocket by some jihad group hit the hospital and not the Israel military.
What evidence?
Israel claiming they didn't do it?
They lie about this stuff constantly so why would anyone believe them?
Israel is bombing Gaza indiscriminately, if something blows up in Gaza, I'm going to need actual evidence it wasn't Israel, not just Israel claiming they have evidence it wasn't them
OSINT experts also now backing the evidence by the Israeli's up: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/gaza-hospital-explosion-likely-caused-by-missile-fired-from-palestine-analysts-claim/ar-AA1ipms3
Israel and the US have a lot more information and video...
Hamas and "independent investigators" don't have that technology.
If there was proof it wasnt Israel, we'd all have seen it by now.
I see I'm wasting my time. Enjoy your ignorance.
Wait...
So you didn't not believe your source that what they can guess from public video isn't proof?
But you do believe a ministry which is led by a terror group? Okay. I for myself will make my conclusion when the evidence is verified by different, independent sources. For now I dont believe any of them and it could be done by either of them.
you are talking to someone so far int he deep end. i doubt its really worth engaging, judging by how they are responding everywhere.
"the initial claim" as in Hamas said that it was Israel.
Well, who else would have done it?
Elon Musk and Harlem Globetrotters?
Pretty disgusting to joke about this shit like that.
The evidence seems to suggest that it was not Israel. But I am sure you will provide better evidence instead of just malding on the internet, correct?
"The evidence" that Israel won't release and shows they didn't blow up the hospital in the area they've been bombing?
I'm gonna need to see the evidence because Israel repeatedly lies about this stuff.
I'm just going in circles here, what don't you understand?
Then again, the other side is Hamas and Islamic Jihad with so far no evidence. I am not trusting Israel blindly, but neither do I trust those two blindly. It's entirely possible that Islamic Jihad fucked up big time and Hamas tried to pin this on Israel. As far as fact checking goes, it probably needs a bit more time, but so far Israel's claims and evidence seem to check out.
No, the "other side" is all the civilians stuck between two genocidal militaries that don't see the other sides civilians as humans.
Neither militaries are the "good guys".
But if you can only understand black and white conflicts:
The difference is Gaza's last election was before the majority of its citizens were born. And Israel has mandated military service and choose to have their current government
The other side of statememts regarding who is at fault for attack on the hospital.
But why would Hamas blow up a Palestinian hospital?
How is that as likely to you as the country that keeps bombing the area hit the hospital either and intentionally or "on accident"?
You're acting like it's a 50/50 chance
It's frustrating to argue with you, because you did not bother at all.
First of all: it's not Hamas, even by what Israel said. It's Islamic Jihad.
Secondly: it wasn't on purpose by that argumentation, it was a failed rocket launch. It would not be the first time a militant group with makeshift rockets had an accident, although this would be particularly lethal.
It's astonishing how much passion you put into your comments while refusing to actually read about what you talk about.
Maybe dont reply to all my comments in a chain if I take longer ngee than 2 minutes to reply to you?
Hell. Just block me, I'd appreciate that. Especially since you keep making personal insults.
It never complained about the time to take. I am talking about your lack of knowledge in the matter discussed.
I am trying to help you here. I told you that you lack knowledge, I also straight up told you where.
Because Im not taking Israels claim (that so far hasn't been backed up by any evidence)...
I don't "lack knowledge" I just don't trust a government that repeatedly claims to be innocent for war crimes they commit, then later we find out they committed.
But you trust Hamas??
Is Hamas indiscriminately bombing Gaza?
The implication of your statement is that Hamas doesn't exaggerate, or fabricate, stories and evidence to feed their information war.
FWIW, I agree with the words in your statement, but I disagree with the intention behind them, for the reasons I provided up top.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12643229/Israel-blast-Gaza-hospital-Palestine-video-rocket-misfire.html
Apologies for the Daily Mail, but this is an audio recording of two Hamas fighters discussing the blast and stating it was from a botched rocket launch in a graveyard behind the hospital.
You can say they just made this up, but at that point you should at least admit that there is no possible evidence that would change your mind and that your view is completely inflexible.
What's wild is that on Twitter, the official Israel account posted video "proof" of it being a rocket misfire has now edited their tweets to remove the video. Most likely because the videos are timestamped 20 minutes after the first reports of the hospital blast.
Ultimately, I'm waiting for some independent groups to analyze everything before making a firm conclusion. I've seen several different videos purporting to be the rocket, and now I'm seeing images that the only real damage was to a parking lot outside with a blast that really doesn't look like a military bomb.
If they have proof that the hospital attack was a Hamas misfire, I will hear their information.
I've watched every video they've posted, and every one seems like a patriot system intercepting a missile. So I keep holding out for a video that shows the moment of the hospital destruction, but so far, no luck.
I am starting to think we might never know, considering that Biden is going to commit to this story. Whether it can be verified or not.Though, as far as Israel being the intelligence capital of the middle east. Let's just say, I've received better reporting/verification from Ukraine operations and they don't get 5 billion a year for intelligence.
Edit: new video has been discovered of the incident,
https://twitter.com/qudsn/status/1714335703117570261
You won't get it. Remember that Hamas rockets are like two steps removed from being made in somebody's backyard. They don't have this kind of firepower.
Edit: I'd seen a wrong picture. Nevermind.
Netanyahu's spokesman also boasted that Israel did the attack.
There are drone videos showing destroyed cars in a parking lot and the hospital standing.
Not good from Biden here.