Any person convicted of the offense of engaging in activity in violation of Code Section 16-14-4 shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by not less than five nor more than 20 years’ imprisonmentorthe fine specified in subsection (b) of this Code section, or both.
In lieu of any fine otherwise authorized by law, any person convicted of the offense of engaging in conduct in violation of Code Section 16-14-4 may be sentenced to pay a fine that does not exceed the greater of $25,000.00 or three times the amount of any pecuniary value gained by him or her from such violation.
The court shall hold a hearing to determine the amount of the fine authorized by subsection (b) of this Code section.
For the purposes of subsection (b) of this Code section, the term “pecuniary value” means:
Anything of value in the form of money, a negotiable instrument, a commercial interest, or anything else, the primary significance of which is economic advantage; or
Any other property or service that has a value in excess of $100.00.
A conviction under Georgia RICO carries a mandatory punishment. That punishment is "5 to 20 years' prison" or a fineor both.
Or a fine. One might imagine that that "or," doing so much heavy lifting, exists for the purposes of eliciting plea deals. That may be true, but the fact remains that a Georgia RICO conviction can result in only a fine.
Meaning the legal system at its core is ineffectual, illegitimate and meaningless.
I want our revolution and new country and so should everyone else.
So...
three times the amount of any pecuniary value gained by him or her from such violation.
And...
Anything of value in the form of money, a negotiable instrument, a commercial interest, or anything else, the primary significance of which is economic advantage
So... to determine the value, we'd just need to calculate everything that Trump would be able to suck out of the country if he had managed to remain in office. We could use what was actually paid out during his presidency as a basis for determining that.
So, every penny paid to Trump directly, plus anything spent by the government in a Trump property used by him during his term. Including the numerous times he forced the government to pay him to house and feed his security detail and other government officials in his properties. Throw in anything his family got as well.
Get the total, triple it, and take that much as a fine.
Then throw his ass in jail.
It won't happen, but it's a nice fantasy.
“Not to exceed the greater of $25,000 or three times…”
Jail time is the only justice. Max fine is 25k.
“Not to exceed the GREATER of $25,000 or three times…”
If the value gained was $5K, the fine is the greater of $15K and $25K, i.e. $25K. If the value gained was $500K, then the fine is the greater of $1.5M and $25K, i.e. $1.5M.
$25,000 is the MINIMUM fine.
$25,000 is the MINIMUM fine.
Not exaaaaactly. In fact, the minimum is still $0. The 25k is still a maximum for lower pecuniarily (is that a word?) damaging cases. Just the same, for cases where the pecuniary damages were $6.33k, the maximum would still be 25k. You know where I'm going with this. Still, the 25k is, sadly, not a minimum fine.
It's all moot anyway because he'll get out of any fine thrown at him by leeching off his supporters' naivete like he always does.
That would be double stupid because when has this man ever paid his bills???
If you don't pay the government their money, they come and take it.
You and me, sure. But they don't bother with the rich ones because the rich have (typically) good lawyers. It's why they get away with tax fraud so often - the IRS isn't interested in pursuing them because it would cost them to much.
I'm not a gambling man, but I'd bet you any amount of money the Prosecution isn't angling for "just a fine" & the State would appeal the verdict if that happened.
Oh, I agree, at least with your first point. The fact that "just a fine" exists as a conseqeunce for a Georgia RICO conviction gives the Judge (Scott McAfee) an option to not put Trump in prison.
We've already seen the ruling from the Colorado district court, which found that Jan 6 was an "insurrection," and that Trump "engaged" in it ... but that Section Three doesn't apply to Presidents ... ? The only explanation I can think of for that bizarre ruling is that the judge who made it, with full knowledge that it would be appealed no matter what the ruling was, chose not to take on the personal risk from Trump-supporting lunatics. A risk which we have seen that the Colorado Supreme Court did choose to submit themselves to.
That same personal risk would befall Judge McAfee if he were to sentence Trump to prison. From what I have seen of his courtroom, he may well choose to take that risk, but the "just a fine" escape is available.
I don't think the State would appeal the verdict sentence, if Trump was found guilty by the jury, and sentenced to a fine by the judge. Such an appeal would definitely be seen as either "beating a dead horse" or "election interference" (::spit::).
I disagree. The State would appeal, because it would be William's prerogative to do so & "just a fine" very plainly isn't an actual punishment for a multi-millionaire.
I truly hope you're right, but Trump has, to this point, seen zero real consequences for any of his clear and obvious infractions. The Colorado ruling gets closer, but staying the judgment until Jan 4 makes it fall short. If, one day, he does finally see consequences, I will be pleasantly surprised. I'm all done getting my hopes up, though.
For what it’s worth, the CO SC had a panel thst just ordered him removed from the ballot because he engaged in insurrection and is ineligible under the 14th.
There was an appeal and it got worse. So there’s that.
No ... the full Colorado State Supreme Court made that ruling. 4 in the majority, 3 dissent. Next stop: SCOTUS
The Federal DC Circuit Court of Appeals - first your case goes to a three judge panel. That's who's going to hear oral argument the morning of Jan 9, 2024. If you don't like how that went, then you appeal and it goes before the full court, en banc. Now your next appeal goes to SCOTUS.
Maybe I'm being pedantic.
Anyway - the kind of appeal I was talking about was one where the verdict was guilty, and the punishment was "just a fine." The one you're referring to - that's not over, there are no consequences for that. That issue is never going to stop anywhere before a SCOTUS ruling.
No ... the full Colorado State Supreme Court made that ruling. 4 in the majority, 3 dissent. Next stop: SCOTUS
A panel of seven is still a panel of seven. Yes it’s the full court.
I was simply adding context that it was in fact appealed and decreed an insurrection (and all that.)
Though I suspect; the question isn’t going to go before the Scotus. It’s largely irrelevant in a primary, and it’s going to be difficult to justify moving that quickly anyway. (Ballot names have to be certified by the SoS by Jan 5th.)
I hope she nails him to the fucking wall, make proud to be from Georgia Fani!
You’ll never get that grease smear out of the wall…
I fundamentally don’t understand what special “status” Trump has.
He’s not in office, he no longer has any of the benefits of the office of the president.
The whole point of a president is that they are a civilian. The office of the president has many powers and high status in the government, but that’s just the office. Anyone who is elected president gets that power and status because they are president for a time. His time as president is over, now he’s a regular civilian again. If he committed a crime, he should be subject to the same process as any other American citizen.
If the courts don’t do that, they are setting up the president as a monarch that is immune to the law.
His status is- everyone is terrified that his loyalists will go on a murder spree if he even so much as gets fined a small amount of cash. Therefore- he gets treated with kid gloves and gets away with murder.
They could just bomb them from airplanes if they do so, but that option is historically only reserved for thriving black communities.
Hopefully the Georgia case will finish before the election, but I've heard some lawyers speculate that for a RICO case with so many defendants, that's wishful thinking.
Because on the chance that Trump actually wins the election before the case is over, he would be virtually guaranteed to get a special break.
he would be virtually guaranteed to get a special break.
There is no legal mechanism, Federal or State, that would permit that to happen. You can't even be pardoned in GA without serving most of your sentence.
This is the opinion that I heard expressed by Glenn Kirschner. That if Trump was elected, there would be some special agreement between Georgia and the federal government to defer his sentence until he was out of office. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like you're suggesting that Trump would be serving as President while in a Georgia prison cell. Is that what you're saying?
Situations like this are what the 25th Amendment is for.
Glenn is just guessing. Fani Williams has plainly stated multiple times that she's not going to favor Trump & she's the one that would be making any deals related to his sentencing.
The provision of the 25th Amendment that I believe you're talking about requires the vice president and the majority of the cabinet to agree, but those people are literally all chosen by the president. Based on Trump's past behavior and recent comments, it's likely that he'd only choose people for these positions who swore a personal oath of loyalty to him. So, they'd be unlikely to exercise that power.
Every single opinion about what would happen, including Glenn's, and mine, and yours, is "just guessing". This would be unprecedented.
As a prosecutor who appears to be excellent at her job in an adversarial system, Fani Willis is going to always present the situation in the light that she expects to get the best results.
In the end, my opinion, and that of at least some legal experts, which like you said is just a guess, is that practicality would require an agreement between the Georgia state government and the federal government to allow the office of the president to function properly.
So, they’d be unlikely to exercise that power.
I fail to see how that is Georgia's problem. The vice president takes over when the President has an incapacity.
there would be some special agreement between Georgia and the federal government to defer his sentence until he was out of office
Even more reason for him to pull out all the stops to ensure his term never ends.
Please, please let him go to prison. Show us that the two-tiered justice system that the rich are privileged from is all in our heads.
Let's talk about that for a moment.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-16/chapter-14/section-16-14-5/
A conviction under Georgia RICO carries a mandatory punishment. That punishment is "5 to 20 years' prison" or a fine or both.
Or a fine. One might imagine that that "or," doing so much heavy lifting, exists for the purposes of eliciting plea deals. That may be true, but the fact remains that a Georgia RICO conviction can result in only a fine.
Meaning the legal system at its core is ineffectual, illegitimate and meaningless.
I want our revolution and new country and so should everyone else.
So...
And...
So... to determine the value, we'd just need to calculate everything that Trump would be able to suck out of the country if he had managed to remain in office. We could use what was actually paid out during his presidency as a basis for determining that.
So, every penny paid to Trump directly, plus anything spent by the government in a Trump property used by him during his term. Including the numerous times he forced the government to pay him to house and feed his security detail and other government officials in his properties. Throw in anything his family got as well.
Get the total, triple it, and take that much as a fine.
Then throw his ass in jail.
It won't happen, but it's a nice fantasy.
“Not to exceed the greater of $25,000 or three times…”
Jail time is the only justice. Max fine is 25k.
If the value gained was $5K, the fine is the greater of $15K and $25K, i.e. $25K. If the value gained was $500K, then the fine is the greater of $1.5M and $25K, i.e. $1.5M.
$25,000 is the MINIMUM fine.
Not exaaaaactly. In fact, the minimum is still $0. The 25k is still a maximum for lower pecuniarily (is that a word?) damaging cases. Just the same, for cases where the pecuniary damages were $6.33k, the maximum would still be 25k. You know where I'm going with this. Still, the 25k is, sadly, not a minimum fine.
It's all moot anyway because he'll get out of any fine thrown at him by leeching off his supporters' naivete like he always does.
That would be double stupid because when has this man ever paid his bills???
If you don't pay the government their money, they come and take it.
You and me, sure. But they don't bother with the rich ones because the rich have (typically) good lawyers. It's why they get away with tax fraud so often - the IRS isn't interested in pursuing them because it would cost them to much.
I'm not a gambling man, but I'd bet you any amount of money the Prosecution isn't angling for "just a fine" & the State would appeal the verdict if that happened.
Oh, I agree, at least with your first point. The fact that "just a fine" exists as a conseqeunce for a Georgia RICO conviction gives the Judge (Scott McAfee) an option to not put Trump in prison.
We've already seen the ruling from the Colorado district court, which found that Jan 6 was an "insurrection," and that Trump "engaged" in it ... but that Section Three doesn't apply to Presidents ... ? The only explanation I can think of for that bizarre ruling is that the judge who made it, with full knowledge that it would be appealed no matter what the ruling was, chose not to take on the personal risk from Trump-supporting lunatics. A risk which we have seen that the Colorado Supreme Court did choose to submit themselves to.
That same personal risk would befall Judge McAfee if he were to sentence Trump to prison. From what I have seen of his courtroom, he may well choose to take that risk, but the "just a fine" escape is available.
I don't think the State would appeal the
verdictsentence, if Trump was found guilty by the jury, and sentenced to a fine by the judge. Such an appeal would definitely be seen as either "beating a dead horse" or "election interference" (::spit::).I disagree. The State would appeal, because it would be William's prerogative to do so & "just a fine" very plainly isn't an actual punishment for a multi-millionaire.
I truly hope you're right, but Trump has, to this point, seen zero real consequences for any of his clear and obvious infractions. The Colorado ruling gets closer, but staying the judgment until Jan 4 makes it fall short. If, one day, he does finally see consequences, I will be pleasantly surprised. I'm all done getting my hopes up, though.
For what it’s worth, the CO SC had a panel thst just ordered him removed from the ballot because he engaged in insurrection and is ineligible under the 14th.
There was an appeal and it got worse. So there’s that.
No ... the full Colorado State Supreme Court made that ruling. 4 in the majority, 3 dissent. Next stop: SCOTUS
The Federal DC Circuit Court of Appeals - first your case goes to a three judge panel. That's who's going to hear oral argument the morning of Jan 9, 2024. If you don't like how that went, then you appeal and it goes before the full court, en banc. Now your next appeal goes to SCOTUS.
Maybe I'm being pedantic.
Anyway - the kind of appeal I was talking about was one where the verdict was guilty, and the punishment was "just a fine." The one you're referring to - that's not over, there are no consequences for that. That issue is never going to stop anywhere before a SCOTUS ruling.
A panel of seven is still a panel of seven. Yes it’s the full court.
I was simply adding context that it was in fact appealed and decreed an insurrection (and all that.)
Though I suspect; the question isn’t going to go before the Scotus. It’s largely irrelevant in a primary, and it’s going to be difficult to justify moving that quickly anyway. (Ballot names have to be certified by the SoS by Jan 5th.)
I hope she nails him to the fucking wall, make proud to be from Georgia Fani!
You’ll never get that grease smear out of the wall…
I fundamentally don’t understand what special “status” Trump has.
He’s not in office, he no longer has any of the benefits of the office of the president.
The whole point of a president is that they are a civilian. The office of the president has many powers and high status in the government, but that’s just the office. Anyone who is elected president gets that power and status because they are president for a time. His time as president is over, now he’s a regular civilian again. If he committed a crime, he should be subject to the same process as any other American citizen.
If the courts don’t do that, they are setting up the president as a monarch that is immune to the law.
His status is- everyone is terrified that his loyalists will go on a murder spree if he even so much as gets fined a small amount of cash. Therefore- he gets treated with kid gloves and gets away with murder.
They could just bomb them from airplanes if they do so, but that option is historically only reserved for thriving black communities.
move?
No, move was a helicopter. I think they're referring to Tulsa
So treat them the same as anyone else who decides to murder spree.
Hopefully the Georgia case will finish before the election, but I've heard some lawyers speculate that for a RICO case with so many defendants, that's wishful thinking.
Because on the chance that Trump actually wins the election before the case is over, he would be virtually guaranteed to get a special break.
There is no legal mechanism, Federal or State, that would permit that to happen. You can't even be pardoned in GA without serving most of your sentence.
This is the opinion that I heard expressed by Glenn Kirschner. That if Trump was elected, there would be some special agreement between Georgia and the federal government to defer his sentence until he was out of office. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like you're suggesting that Trump would be serving as President while in a Georgia prison cell. Is that what you're saying?
Situations like this are what the 25th Amendment is for.
Glenn is just guessing. Fani Williams has plainly stated multiple times that she's not going to favor Trump & she's the one that would be making any deals related to his sentencing.
The provision of the 25th Amendment that I believe you're talking about requires the vice president and the majority of the cabinet to agree, but those people are literally all chosen by the president. Based on Trump's past behavior and recent comments, it's likely that he'd only choose people for these positions who swore a personal oath of loyalty to him. So, they'd be unlikely to exercise that power.
Every single opinion about what would happen, including Glenn's, and mine, and yours, is "just guessing". This would be unprecedented.
As a prosecutor who appears to be excellent at her job in an adversarial system, Fani Willis is going to always present the situation in the light that she expects to get the best results.
In the end, my opinion, and that of at least some legal experts, which like you said is just a guess, is that practicality would require an agreement between the Georgia state government and the federal government to allow the office of the president to function properly.
I fail to see how that is Georgia's problem. The vice president takes over when the President has an incapacity.
Even more reason for him to pull out all the stops to ensure his term never ends.
Except they can choose just to fine the offender.