I mean, makes sense to me. You're storing your data on someone else's servers, makes sense that it would count towards your storage quota on said servers.
Having said that, it's really shitty that they've removed local backups (and that they don't allow other third party services beyond Google Drive and Apple iCloud).
Another reason to not use WhatsApp (or to use another backup solution), I guess.
Well, that depends on context. Let's say it makes less sense if you built your entire userbase on the back of handing off free storage for decades only to reverse course later after you've amassed a captive userbase in the literal billions of people.
But hey, I'm not gonna relitigate enshittification now. We all know.
FWIW, my current Whatsapp backup is 4GB, 1.5 without video backup. Google Drive gives out 20 for free, but they already made the same move regarding Gmail storage, so most of that is full. I have a paid account, but it's a work account and my personal chat logs do not belong there. Not using whatsapp is not an option. Just this week my vet sent me text messages over it. They didn't ask if I use it, they just assumed it because, again, captive audience in the billions. Whatsapp is just how texting works here.
Many people where I am also use WhatsApp. I don't, because I don't use Facebook apps. It hasn't caused me many issues, and in the few cases where someone won't switch to Telegram or contact me on another platform, I accept that same as I accept that when using Lemmy I won't get the same content I would on Reddit.
I didn't say many.
I said everybody.
I don't think I know a single person that texts over anything but Whatsapp. Businesses will reach out that way if they have your number. The government, too, sometimes. Every single person I know defaults to it and nothing else. My parents do. All my friends do. I may be able to convince a few of those to swap, but there is no way I'm convincing all of them. Again, "swap" here includes SMS texting. I'm saying this applies to all communications over phone that aren't direct phone calls. Scratch that, actually, most of these people also default to Whatsapp for voice calls.
The one exception is that some of my foreign friends do use a different app. They use Facebook Messenger.
You can use Whatsapp and something else. You can't get rid of Whatsapp.
You can't get rid of Whatsapp.
Very true, but you can also never ever give them your number and then get funny looks from friends, colleagues, and pretty much everyone in the UK.
I for one am proud of getting those funny looks.
Well, some of us need our phones for work, so...
...also not an option.
Kinda need people to be able to reach me. You know, for continuing to survive and stuff.
It is an option, believe me, you're just doing what your employer tells you to.
But they can't force you to use WhatsApp unless you signed a contract of employment stating so? And if you did that the onus falls on you.
My employer is me.
I'm doing what my clients tell me, because it's generally considered to be a good business practice to not argue with one's clients unless you have a good reason to do so.
And that's why if I was self employed I'd use another phone entirely or promote the usage of some other way of contacting me/us. Never would I have WhatsApp installed on my personal device (Dual SIM and all) since it's my choice, which I can make.
Peer pressure, social norms, and even "bosses demanding you join their WhatsApp to communicate" is a non starter here.
I think it annoys my immediate boss that I use our corporate email for everything, or even simply calling them telling them the most menial of things.
Oh, it's my choice to approach every potential client with a long-winded pitch about why I'm off the grid and don't believe in telephones.
It's just terrible for business, and since I do like to consume food to keep this sack of meat running, I don't do that.
Look, there are two things happening here:
One, you don't seem to get to what extent Meta has entirely replaced key parts of the communications infrastructure in several parts of the world. You may as well be advocating communication via carrier pigeon.
Two, you get a kick out of being the difficult contrarian weirdo that refuses to submit to the mainstream of modern tech because you work for some boss that thinks it's worth getting your skills despite that song and dance, so there is no immediate downside. I know. Been there, done that. When you freelance you get way less precious about that, by necessity.
And yes, by the way, I do keep separate hardware and software environments to isolate some predatory applications to work hardware. That is viable. Just... not for Whatsapp. Because EVERYBODY uses it and I like my friends and family to keep talking to me, too.
That's the thing.....I do understand your qualms about having to use them even if it irks you no end because you're 'now not a weirdo', and having run establishments prior to these days I find it amusing that you're now required to indulge in sharing your contact list because it's the "norm".
Which is awesome because I somehow manage to keep in touch with fellow friends, colleagues, family and even talking to others on platforms such as this without conglomerates poking my metadata too as much.
edit: too > as
I'm still a weirdo, but I can't afford to be a weirdo performatively these days.
So yeah, I can default to Firefox or keep the MS tools I have to use for work on its own contained browser instance, or refuse to use Samsung or Apple phones or whatever other act of technological petty rebellion that I want. But the point I'm making is that cutting the cord on Whatsapp is not practical for daily use in this region. It's very different in the US and in some other territories, but here it's definitely not.
It's far easier to step away from Twitter, Instagram and even Facebook than it is to do the same with Whatsapp here. That's the big takeaway that I want to convey here.
And I'm conveying your blind spot which seems to be that you can't function in this society without WhatsApp, which I've done since its inception.
And I'm sure I will perform equally well as yourself and others going into the future without it.
I can repeat, if you like. WhatsApp is not installed on my phone. Everyone I care about talking to uses Telegram. I understand it may not be as easy in your case to get people to switch, but if it's either Telegram, Signal, or nothing, and they care about speaking to you, they'll switch.
No, it's not "as easy in my case", it's impossible in my entire country.
It'd mean not having contact with friends, family, work clients, businesses and plenty of other conveniences.
I'm glad you're self-sufficient enough to not interact with humans on the basis of their messaging app, but here in the real world, if a client gives me their Whatsapp contact and I point them at Telegram I look like a weirdo who suddenly wants to have a ten minute conversation about social media instead of doing their actual job.
So I can repeat, if you like. You can't get rid of Whatsapp.
If they give you their WhatsApp number, it's the same as their phone number, and you can just use SMS without them noticing.
I mean, no, they'll notice. The messages would appear on a different app.
But me texting them is not the issue, people don't remove their text message app. The issue is them wanting to text me, entering my phone number on Whatsapp and having it not be there.
Never mind that a number of these interactions are using groups and other tools. So no, it's not an option. You may as well tell people you don't have a phone or you refuse to interact through anything other than wax-sealed letters. Is it possible? Yes, sure, the post will deliver those. Does it make sense? Not at all.
People underestimate to what extent Meta apps have supplanted signfiicant chunks of communications infrastructure in many places around the world. For all the crap people give to Musk's little hostage crisis on Twitter, it's peanuts compared to Meta's stranglehold. Americans in particular don't realize how hard they already won social media.
Nobody answers SMS here. It is fucking expensive for a fucking message.
Even 2FA is now over WhatsApp.
I don't think any providers charge for SMS anymore. Or at least you get enough free ones that nobody ever hits the cap.
Because everybody uses Whatsapp instead, so it's not even worth trying to monetize the residual usage. It's like email, only automated communications use it, so you're better off only charging government agencies and companies who are the only ones using it.
We are still paying for each SMS. Not talking about America.
Me neither :)
Of course there are more than two countries in the world, so it's entirely possible to have different pricing structures anyway.
So how do you participate in the work chat with just SMS? Lots of informal collaborations in both my last role and current role needed and needs WhatsApp, with both internal and external stakeholders. I literally cannot do my jobs without WhatsApp.
Delivery services will contact you on WhatsApp as proof that the delivery was made, disputes are much harder to solve without it.
Many businesses use WhatsApp as part of their chat support (luckily, not the banks, small wins at least). Talk to a person on the phone? Good luck.
These are just the examples off the top of my head; I feel like so many here are naive on what it's like to live in a modern, digital society.
Have to use WhatsApp to function in society though, where I am. At least, those messages aren't really that important in the long run so they don't need to be backed up, so no loss there for me.
I also don't use Facebook apps :)
Rental agencies won't contact you on anything other than WhatsApp where I live (im serious, they won't, they have 45 other prospective renters who want the same place you do and they all have WhatsApp).
So it's a deeper issue than just a content one as I need a roof over my head.
Maybe I got grandfathered in? I don't know, at some point obscuring their own rules became part of the dumb playbook of all these tech corpos.
Eh, I thought Google gave 15GB, not 20GB?
Also I just checked my own WhatsApp backup space, it's just shy of 500mb with videos. Good for me I guess! I really don't use WhatsApp that much compared to Telegram.
My free account reports 19. Like I said above, I may have grandfathered in to a different amount or it may be regional or who knows.
When did they remove local backups? Or is it removed for someone who has opted for Google Drive backup?
I never chose cloud option, so I have my local backup. Android by the way.
You're storing unencrypted data on google drive with those backups, so they scan all of your chats. Whether they just look for malware/CSAM or people manually look through your chats is something you'll never know.
[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]
Exactly. I've been using the option of encrypted backup for quite some time now.
I mean, makes sense to me. You're storing your data on someone else's servers, makes sense that it would count towards your storage quota on said servers.
Having said that, it's really shitty that they've removed local backups (and that they don't allow other third party services beyond Google Drive and Apple iCloud).
Another reason to not use WhatsApp (or to use another backup solution), I guess.
Well, that depends on context. Let's say it makes less sense if you built your entire userbase on the back of handing off free storage for decades only to reverse course later after you've amassed a captive userbase in the literal billions of people.
But hey, I'm not gonna relitigate enshittification now. We all know.
FWIW, my current Whatsapp backup is 4GB, 1.5 without video backup. Google Drive gives out 20 for free, but they already made the same move regarding Gmail storage, so most of that is full. I have a paid account, but it's a work account and my personal chat logs do not belong there. Not using whatsapp is not an option. Just this week my vet sent me text messages over it. They didn't ask if I use it, they just assumed it because, again, captive audience in the billions. Whatsapp is just how texting works here.
Many people where I am also use WhatsApp. I don't, because I don't use Facebook apps. It hasn't caused me many issues, and in the few cases where someone won't switch to Telegram or contact me on another platform, I accept that same as I accept that when using Lemmy I won't get the same content I would on Reddit.
I didn't say many.
I said everybody.
I don't think I know a single person that texts over anything but Whatsapp. Businesses will reach out that way if they have your number. The government, too, sometimes. Every single person I know defaults to it and nothing else. My parents do. All my friends do. I may be able to convince a few of those to swap, but there is no way I'm convincing all of them. Again, "swap" here includes SMS texting. I'm saying this applies to all communications over phone that aren't direct phone calls. Scratch that, actually, most of these people also default to Whatsapp for voice calls.
The one exception is that some of my foreign friends do use a different app. They use Facebook Messenger.
You can use Whatsapp and something else. You can't get rid of Whatsapp.
Very true, but you can also never ever give them your number and then get funny looks from friends, colleagues, and pretty much everyone in the UK.
I for one am proud of getting those funny looks.
Well, some of us need our phones for work, so...
...also not an option.
Kinda need people to be able to reach me. You know, for continuing to survive and stuff.
It is an option, believe me, you're just doing what your employer tells you to.
But they can't force you to use WhatsApp unless you signed a contract of employment stating so? And if you did that the onus falls on you.
My employer is me.
I'm doing what my clients tell me, because it's generally considered to be a good business practice to not argue with one's clients unless you have a good reason to do so.
And that's why if I was self employed I'd use another phone entirely or promote the usage of some other way of contacting me/us. Never would I have WhatsApp installed on my personal device (Dual SIM and all) since it's my choice, which I can make.
Peer pressure, social norms, and even "bosses demanding you join their WhatsApp to communicate" is a non starter here.
I think it annoys my immediate boss that I use our corporate email for everything, or even simply calling them telling them the most menial of things.
Oh, it's my choice to approach every potential client with a long-winded pitch about why I'm off the grid and don't believe in telephones.
It's just terrible for business, and since I do like to consume food to keep this sack of meat running, I don't do that.
Look, there are two things happening here:
One, you don't seem to get to what extent Meta has entirely replaced key parts of the communications infrastructure in several parts of the world. You may as well be advocating communication via carrier pigeon.
Two, you get a kick out of being the difficult contrarian weirdo that refuses to submit to the mainstream of modern tech because you work for some boss that thinks it's worth getting your skills despite that song and dance, so there is no immediate downside. I know. Been there, done that. When you freelance you get way less precious about that, by necessity.
And yes, by the way, I do keep separate hardware and software environments to isolate some predatory applications to work hardware. That is viable. Just... not for Whatsapp. Because EVERYBODY uses it and I like my friends and family to keep talking to me, too.
That's the thing.....I do understand your qualms about having to use them even if it irks you no end because you're 'now not a weirdo', and having run establishments prior to these days I find it amusing that you're now required to indulge in sharing your contact list because it's the "norm".
Which is awesome because I somehow manage to keep in touch with fellow friends, colleagues, family and even talking to others on platforms such as this without conglomerates poking my metadata
tooas much.edit: too > as
I'm still a weirdo, but I can't afford to be a weirdo performatively these days.
So yeah, I can default to Firefox or keep the MS tools I have to use for work on its own contained browser instance, or refuse to use Samsung or Apple phones or whatever other act of technological petty rebellion that I want. But the point I'm making is that cutting the cord on Whatsapp is not practical for daily use in this region. It's very different in the US and in some other territories, but here it's definitely not.
It's far easier to step away from Twitter, Instagram and even Facebook than it is to do the same with Whatsapp here. That's the big takeaway that I want to convey here.
And I'm conveying your blind spot which seems to be that you can't function in this society without WhatsApp, which I've done since its inception.
And I'm sure I will perform equally well as yourself and others going into the future without it.
Good luck telling employers around the world 'no like WhatsApp, begone!'.
No in some cases it's literally not an option.
Some people just preach without critical thinking, like person above you.
I can repeat, if you like. WhatsApp is not installed on my phone. Everyone I care about talking to uses Telegram. I understand it may not be as easy in your case to get people to switch, but if it's either Telegram, Signal, or nothing, and they care about speaking to you, they'll switch.
No, it's not "as easy in my case", it's impossible in my entire country.
It'd mean not having contact with friends, family, work clients, businesses and plenty of other conveniences.
I'm glad you're self-sufficient enough to not interact with humans on the basis of their messaging app, but here in the real world, if a client gives me their Whatsapp contact and I point them at Telegram I look like a weirdo who suddenly wants to have a ten minute conversation about social media instead of doing their actual job.
So I can repeat, if you like. You can't get rid of Whatsapp.
If they give you their WhatsApp number, it's the same as their phone number, and you can just use SMS without them noticing.
I mean, no, they'll notice. The messages would appear on a different app.
But me texting them is not the issue, people don't remove their text message app. The issue is them wanting to text me, entering my phone number on Whatsapp and having it not be there.
Never mind that a number of these interactions are using groups and other tools. So no, it's not an option. You may as well tell people you don't have a phone or you refuse to interact through anything other than wax-sealed letters. Is it possible? Yes, sure, the post will deliver those. Does it make sense? Not at all.
People underestimate to what extent Meta apps have supplanted signfiicant chunks of communications infrastructure in many places around the world. For all the crap people give to Musk's little hostage crisis on Twitter, it's peanuts compared to Meta's stranglehold. Americans in particular don't realize how hard they already won social media.
Nobody answers SMS here. It is fucking expensive for a fucking message.
Even 2FA is now over WhatsApp.
I don't think any providers charge for SMS anymore. Or at least you get enough free ones that nobody ever hits the cap.
Because everybody uses Whatsapp instead, so it's not even worth trying to monetize the residual usage. It's like email, only automated communications use it, so you're better off only charging government agencies and companies who are the only ones using it.
We are still paying for each SMS. Not talking about America.
Me neither :)
Of course there are more than two countries in the world, so it's entirely possible to have different pricing structures anyway.
So how do you participate in the work chat with just SMS? Lots of informal collaborations in both my last role and current role needed and needs WhatsApp, with both internal and external stakeholders. I literally cannot do my jobs without WhatsApp.
Delivery services will contact you on WhatsApp as proof that the delivery was made, disputes are much harder to solve without it.
Many businesses use WhatsApp as part of their chat support (luckily, not the banks, small wins at least). Talk to a person on the phone? Good luck.
These are just the examples off the top of my head; I feel like so many here are naive on what it's like to live in a modern, digital society.
Have to use WhatsApp to function in society though, where I am. At least, those messages aren't really that important in the long run so they don't need to be backed up, so no loss there for me.
I also don't use Facebook apps :)
Rental agencies won't contact you on anything other than WhatsApp where I live (im serious, they won't, they have 45 other prospective renters who want the same place you do and they all have WhatsApp).
So it's a deeper issue than just a content one as I need a roof over my head.
google drive gives out 20? I only have 15
Maybe I got grandfathered in? I don't know, at some point obscuring their own rules became part of the dumb playbook of all these tech corpos.
Eh, I thought Google gave 15GB, not 20GB?
Also I just checked my own WhatsApp backup space, it's just shy of 500mb with videos. Good for me I guess! I really don't use WhatsApp that much compared to Telegram.
My free account reports 19. Like I said above, I may have grandfathered in to a different amount or it may be regional or who knows.
Every day I love Swiftbackup more, indeed I have been using this solution even for WhatsApp.
Same, for the last two years.
When did they remove local backups? Or is it removed for someone who has opted for Google Drive backup?
I never chose cloud option, so I have my local backup. Android by the way.
You're storing unencrypted data on google drive with those backups, so they scan all of your chats. Whether they just look for malware/CSAM or people manually look through your chats is something you'll never know.
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Exactly. I've been using the option of encrypted backup for quite some time now.
WhatsApp supports encrypted backups: https://faq.whatsapp.com/1246476872801203/
I mourn for the poor worker who needs to look through all my dick pics
But it's text, an entire persons message history can be stored very cheaply.
A million words is only 2MB.
Most people are expexted to text less than 10 millions words in a lifetime.
An entire persons lifetime message history is only 20MB, that's trivial to store.
If they want to charge to save media, thats fine, but text backups should be free
Does it have an option to back up only text, without images and other media?
I don't use WhatsApp, but my Signal backup is several gigs because of images and videos.
In WhatsApp it is possible to back up only text and images, without video. Not modular enough though
I've just checked. In the UK at least, you can choose to exclude videos from the backup, but not images.
WhatsApp bundles them together, that is the problem. Google does not know how to differentiate it.
Signal
I personally use Matrix, but to each their own!
It's on my todo. Signal is an easy install for all.