So before you can message anyone you have to download whatsapp? iMessage is preinstalled and is also e2e encrypted. Idk if I'd rather Facebook or Apple (who can access iCloud backups of normally otherwise encrypted data, etc.) in charge of my messaging infrastructure, honestly.
Americans with Android are left to use literal SMS which is atrocious, or a different messaging solution, probably whatsapp I guess
edit: I don't like iMessage or the current state of messaging in the US. I feel like all the default messaging apps should be able to communicate e2e encrypted via some shared standard or something-- it's weird to have to go third party
Americans with Android are stuck using SMS half the time because Americans with iPhones are literally holding us back. If it wasn't for iMessage, we would have ditched SMS years ago, but when you suggest to an iPhone user that they use something other than iMessage their head explodes, apparently.
when you suggest to an iPhone user that they use something other than iMessage their head explodes, apparently.
Android users aren't in such a tiny minority over there. Even by pure chance, there should be a decent number of Android users initiating events but since even they are so obsessed with iMessage, they don't even try to use something else.
Android users aren't in such a tiny minority over there.
Yep, Android makes up around 40-45% of the mobile OS in America, depending on what site and when you look.
So before you can message anyone you have to download whatsapp?
Yes and almost everyone around the world outside China and the USA does that. WhatsApp has 2 billion users.
Yes, most people in western Europe use Whatsapp. Yes, they have to download it before they can use it. Maybe some phones have it preinstalled, but most smartphone users do know how to download apps. More tech-savvy and privacy-conscious people often have Signal as well.
iMessage is preinstalled
The whole point is: it isn't more often than not. And unlike Whatsapp, you can't even install it.
Every iPhone has iMessage preinstalled...
Every iPhone has iMessage preinstalled…
But since the context here is Europe: Android is used by the majority.
Even if it wasn't, technological illiteracy cannot justify imposing a vendor lock-in upon the others. Installing an independent messenger like Signal is not rocket science.
Not every phone is an iPhone though.
Most phones aren't iPhones actually.
Did we just go full circle and start bitching about apps not being preinstalled?
Encrypted during transfer, yes, but still decrypted in the apps
In the congress hearing zucky boy did, he was asked whether Facebook could read Messenger and WhatsApp messages
his response was to more or less trip over himself avowing that Facebook couldn't read WhatsApp messages—even when a follow up question specifically asked him about Messenger, he chose to ignore it and reaffirm that WhatsApp messages were private
i don't really see why he would've done that unless WhatsApp actually was encrypted, given that if he were lying about one it would be a lot easier to just lie about both
his response was to more or less trip over himself avowing that Facebook couldn’t read WhatsApp messages—even when a follow up question specifically asked him about Messenger, he chose to ignore it and reaffirm that WhatsApp messages were private
It was optional for ages and recently read about it becoming the default.
i did say it was "also" e2e encrypted
Android users get to use the default messages app, with the whole e2e encryption, reactions, full sized photos etc... SMS is used for advertisements, and sending messages to iphone users... SMS is only used by old people for 2fa as 2fa apps usualy have superior security and are now systematically prefered by companies.
Both iphone users and android users need to download an extra app if they want E2E, full graphic images and videos, reactions etc...
Just as people aren't content with iWork and usually download Office because it works the same and can be read with the same formatting everywhere.
So before you can message anyone you have to download whatsapp?
I love how this seems like a near insurmountable hurdle. Install an app?? On a phone?!
I have a relative who is ~85 years old; he uses WhatsApp. It's really not that hard.
It was just a question - I'm not remotely saying what you are
WhatsApp became the dominant messaging platform in Europe before Facebook bought them. Most people are locked in to it because change is hard and they don't care that much about privacy.
Most people are locked in to it because change is hard and they don’t care that much about privacy.
The privacy concerns are not that Meta will read your messages (because they can't, as you mention), but the metadata they can read such as your details and who you contact.
“So, Facebook can track who sends WhatsApp messages, when, to whom, from which location (if a user allows), etc - but not the content itself,” Rykov says “This creates a privacy concern for people who want full anonymity. These people should consider using more privacy-enhancing apps like Signal, Threema, Wire instead.”
the metadata they can read such as your details and who you contact.
Every provider of communication services can. Singling out WhatsApp in that regard makes no sense. Apple happily hands over metadata and iCloud backups to the FBI.
the metadata they can read such as your details and who you contact...Every provider of communication services can.
So Signal's corporate customers (like Meta with WhatsApp) do the same then?
Ultimately I just don’t trust meta at all. I trust Apple slightly more. Which still isn’t much, but it’s more.
It must be so difficult to spend 2 whole seconds downloading an app to use for messaging. and yes it's end to end encrypted too.
There’s no need to be a jerk. For some of us it is just unexpected to hear that folks have phones where they download their primary messaging app. It would be like downloading an app to make calls - it’s just such a fundamental, core feature, that I wouldn’t really think to go third-party for my daily usage. It’s not that it makes no sense, but I hope you can understand why that is a little surprising to some people.
I know that in the 20 years or so since I first got a cellphone I have just used whatever is on the phone natively. Nothing wrong with using WhatsApp, you do you. But that was how it used to be, and WhatsApp did not become so dominant until recently.
Not hard! Just unfamiliar that's all. Seems weird to me having just always used iMessage here in the states, which has awful interoperability with Android devices
the Android ios garbage, that's by design really terrible behaviour by Apple. it's not a technology limitation, it's on purpose to keep people using Apple.
Just unfamiliar that’s all. Seems weird to me having just always used iMessage here in the states, which has awful interoperability with Android devices
Whatsapp
Interesting ty!
So before you can message anyone you have to download whatsapp? iMessage is preinstalled and is also e2e encrypted. Idk if I'd rather Facebook or Apple (who can access iCloud backups of normally otherwise encrypted data, etc.) in charge of my messaging infrastructure, honestly.
Americans with Android are left to use literal SMS which is atrocious, or a different messaging solution, probably whatsapp I guess
edit: I don't like iMessage or the current state of messaging in the US. I feel like all the default messaging apps should be able to communicate e2e encrypted via some shared standard or something-- it's weird to have to go third party
Americans with Android are stuck using SMS half the time because Americans with iPhones are literally holding us back. If it wasn't for iMessage, we would have ditched SMS years ago, but when you suggest to an iPhone user that they use something other than iMessage their head explodes, apparently.
Android users aren't in such a tiny minority over there. Even by pure chance, there should be a decent number of Android users initiating events but since even they are so obsessed with iMessage, they don't even try to use something else.
Yep, Android makes up around 40-45% of the mobile OS in America, depending on what site and when you look.
Yes and almost everyone around the world outside China and the USA does that. WhatsApp has 2 billion users.
Yes, most people in western Europe use Whatsapp. Yes, they have to download it before they can use it. Maybe some phones have it preinstalled, but most smartphone users do know how to download apps. More tech-savvy and privacy-conscious people often have Signal as well.
The whole point is: it isn't more often than not. And unlike Whatsapp, you can't even install it.
Every iPhone has iMessage preinstalled...
But since the context here is Europe: Android is used by the majority.
Even if it wasn't, technological illiteracy cannot justify imposing a vendor lock-in upon the others. Installing an independent messenger like Signal is not rocket science.
Not every phone is an iPhone though.
Most phones aren't iPhones actually.
Did we just go full circle and start bitching about apps not being preinstalled?
whatsapp is e2e encrypted
So they say.
So say the Signal people: https://signal.org/blog/there-is-no-whatsapp-backdoor/
Encrypted during transfer, yes, but still decrypted in the apps
In the congress hearing zucky boy did, he was asked whether Facebook could read Messenger and WhatsApp messages
his response was to more or less trip over himself avowing that Facebook couldn't read WhatsApp messages—even when a follow up question specifically asked him about Messenger, he chose to ignore it and reaffirm that WhatsApp messages were private
i don't really see why he would've done that unless WhatsApp actually was encrypted, given that if he were lying about one it would be a lot easier to just lie about both
Even FB Messenger: https://signal.org/blog/facebook-messenger/
It was optional for ages and recently read about it becoming the default.
i did say it was "also" e2e encrypted
Android users get to use the default messages app, with the whole e2e encryption, reactions, full sized photos etc... SMS is used for advertisements, and sending messages to iphone users... SMS is only used by old people for 2fa as 2fa apps usualy have superior security and are now systematically prefered by companies.
Both iphone users and android users need to download an extra app if they want E2E, full graphic images and videos, reactions etc...
Just as people aren't content with iWork and usually download Office because it works the same and can be read with the same formatting everywhere.
I love how this seems like a near insurmountable hurdle. Install an app?? On a phone?!
I have a relative who is ~85 years old; he uses WhatsApp. It's really not that hard.
It was just a question - I'm not remotely saying what you are
WhatsApp became the dominant messaging platform in Europe before Facebook bought them. Most people are locked in to it because change is hard and they don't care that much about privacy.
WhatsApp uses Signal's encryption and according to https://signal.org/blog/there-is-no-whatsapp-backdoor/ has no backdoor.
The privacy concerns are not that Meta will read your messages (because they can't, as you mention), but the metadata they can read such as your details and who you contact.
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/a-cheat-sheet-for-whatsapp-privacy/
Every provider of communication services can. Singling out WhatsApp in that regard makes no sense. Apple happily hands over metadata and iCloud backups to the FBI.
Signal does not, since they use Sealed Sender.
So Signal's corporate customers (like Meta with WhatsApp) do the same then?
Ultimately I just don’t trust meta at all. I trust Apple slightly more. Which still isn’t much, but it’s more.
It must be so difficult to spend 2 whole seconds downloading an app to use for messaging. and yes it's end to end encrypted too.
There’s no need to be a jerk. For some of us it is just unexpected to hear that folks have phones where they download their primary messaging app. It would be like downloading an app to make calls - it’s just such a fundamental, core feature, that I wouldn’t really think to go third-party for my daily usage. It’s not that it makes no sense, but I hope you can understand why that is a little surprising to some people.
I know that in the 20 years or so since I first got a cellphone I have just used whatever is on the phone natively. Nothing wrong with using WhatsApp, you do you. But that was how it used to be, and WhatsApp did not become so dominant until recently.
Not hard! Just unfamiliar that's all. Seems weird to me having just always used iMessage here in the states, which has awful interoperability with Android devices
the Android ios garbage, that's by design really terrible behaviour by Apple. it's not a technology limitation, it's on purpose to keep people using Apple.
How do the 87% FB Messenger users manage to do that? https://www.statista.com/chart/25030/popular-messaging-and-video-chat-apps-in-the-us/
WhatsApp is also E2E and backup can also be encrypted (Atleast on Android).
I just hope we can Interoperability b/w Signal and WhatsApp.