The judge doesn’t want to give Trump’s team any ammunition for an appeal. I realize it’s absurd, but if he’s thrown in jail without significant warning then they’ll argue it biased the already liberal jury (cause NYC) against him too much.
(I am not a lawyer, that’s just my understanding.)
The judge doesn’t want to give Trump’s team any ammunition for an appeal.
It's still treating Trump different than most. If it's such a problem to put Trump in jail, why isn't it for any random person?
It's still treating Trump different than most.
Of course it is.
If it's such a problem to put Trump in jail, why isn't it for any random person?
Because he is a former president of the United States who is currently running for re-election. This situation is unique in American history. As much as we may dislike these facts, they are true. The judge is in uncharted waters here, and needs to be careful to avoid anything that can be construed as evidence of bias against the defendant. This trial will be under scrutiny for as long as we have a country.
It’s not fair that most defendants do not have the essentially limitless resources of the entire conservative political machine at their disposal to pay for their legal woes, but it is the reality of the situation.
The judge is in uncharted waters here, and needs to be careful to avoid anything that can be construed as evidence of bias against the defendant.
And in so doing, hold a bias for the asshole.
The judge is biased on the side of Justice. Getting the case thrown out out of principle wouldn't help anyone but Trump.
That’s bullshit and you know it.
There are established rules and procedures. When you fudge them on one side, to avoid appearing biased to the other….
That is itself bias. against your “side of justice”.
This judge is afraid of Trump; and in his fear making a mockery of justice. You know it, I know it, and Trump knows it. Even the judge knows it.
Yeah so let's treat him the same way as anyone else so he can use that as an excuse to stop the procedure against him, that will sure show him!
Of all the cases where people want the judge to treat the accused the same way they would be treated in order to prove a point, this is probably the worst one.
That’s not how it works.
You’re enabling Trump’s bullshit.
It’s (stochastic) terrorism and you’re just like “but dude! It might not stick!”
Wonder what you say when trump’s cultist kill off witnesses and jurors?
You’re enabling Trump’s bullshit.
No, this random commenter on Lemmy is absolutely not enabling Trump’s bullshit. We’re just trying to explain the behavior of the judge, we have nothing to do with it.
It’s (stichadtic) terrorism and you’re just like “but dude! It might not stick!”
Stochastic terrorism is, obviously, what they’re trying to avoid with the gag order. The judge and his family are already victims, and he knows full well that the jury and witnesses are at risk. No offense intended, but I suspect he understands the situation he’s in better than you do.
So you would rather see him not face any consequences for the crime he has committed except for a weekend in jai, all out of principle?
That's not what would happen tho. The trial wouldn't end if Trump is held I contempt.
It would allow him to stall everything by opening the door to questioning the judge's neutrality and missing would move forward before he got elected again.
You guys are wishing to see him held in contempt even if it means he probably won't see any other jail time after that, I'm close to the point where I'll start to think you're on his side and just want to see him win.
So you’re okay with terrorism.
Oh look, I can play that game too! The process is meant for the judge to be neutral. Any other position risks the validity of the trial.
Your argument flies in the face of justice.
And in this specific case to be able to prove it wasn't out of spite they have to be able to prove that Trump was given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. They could send him to jail right away, all that would lead to is their neutrality being questioned and a high risk of the trial being pushed back to a later date or cancelled altogether and the judge could say "I was being neutral" all they wanted, the end result would be worse than if they just wait until they reach a point where their neutrality cannot be questioned.
So again, I will ask, would you rather see Trump spend a weekend in jail and the trial ending or would you rather see Trump being fined and the trial reaching its conclusion?
These are the choices we're presented with right now, not the unicorn world you live in where Trump spends the weekend in jail after one offense and the trial then goes on as intended.
Total bullshit.
Trump has been warned ad nauseam in this one case alone. If he’s that unable to follow simple directions… he’s mentally unfit to stand trial.
Pretending like he needs to get fined for contempt before being locked up is an egregious affront to the justice system.
Literally no one else would be allowed such leeway; and there is only one code of law- it applies to everyone or it’s a joke.
That trump was ever allowed to make the judge’s own daughter a victim of terrorism… raise severe questions.
There is only one code of law that applies to this case and it states that the judge can either impose a fine of maximum 1k for each count or jail the person, so the judge is doing exactly what the code of law allows them to do.
You're still not answering the question.
Jail for the weekend at the risk of seeing him go scot-free OR fines and you're sure the trial reaches its conclusion?
I would make a terrible judge, because I don’t see how this is uncharted territory. Sure, it’s unprecedented, but that doesn’t mean we don’t know what to do.
Our entire government is made up of citizens, that was the whole point in fighting a war to get rid of an unjust monarchy, ruling from afar.
Trump is a citizen, if he broke the law he needs to go to jail. If he breaks the law during the trial, he should receive the same punishment as any other citizen would. Doing anything else just means we have a 2 tier justice system.
The fact that he has fucked up 10 times and is still a free man is ridiculous. All the judge has done is show trump that he can do whatever he wants and face no repercussions. If you did something 10 times, and then someone gets mad the 11th, you wouldn’t say “sorry my bad” you’d say “why are you mad, I do this all the time”
I think 11 contempt charges represents 10 more “significant warnings” than anyone else would get.
I legitimate appeals court would accept trumps argument and illegitimate courts aren’t going to care and just side with Trump anyhow.
This isn’t for appeals… it’s for mass consumption; and it’s a massive miscarriage of justice.
The judge doesn’t want to give Trump’s team any ammunition for an appeal.
If you believe this shit, you're fooling yourself. Guy's gotten ten warnings when any off-the-street plaintiff would be lucky to get one. Not only will there be ammo for appeal, Merchan is building precedent of untouchability. My man is straight up announcing
The last thing I want to do is put you in jail.
I-fucking-magine this getting said during any other trial. How much more biased can a judge get?
Guy’s gotten ten warnings
Playing Devil's Advocate here, but nine of those were all reviewed at the same time, and while the decision to group them all together and issue a final warning was pending, the tenth violation was committed. Technically, and this is a really big fuckin' technically, he has not committed any violations since being put "on notice" that the monetary punishments are over and the jail time would start. They decided on one today that occurred before that decision, so they're not holding it to the same standard.
I do believe the next violation will carry jail time, without a doubt. Trump has also mostly shut up since being put on notice as well because he doesn't want to be put in a cell any more than you or I do.
But it is extremely, maddeningly frustrating that Trump has gotten away with it so far. The Judge's decision today proves beyond a doubt that the law is not being equally applied in favor of Trump himself.
Honestly, I don't know if I could be an impartial judge in this case, because knowing Trump I would have warned him the very second he stepped foot in the courtroom that he was already on notice and that he should expect jail time if even a single word escaped his mouth that is in violation of the gag order that was already in place. Maybe Judge Merchan is more magnanimous, more cool-headed, or simply too wary of the blowback from applying the law equally with a megalomaniac like Trump who has an army of idiots at his back. I don't know. All I know is, I don't think he's out of line just yet, but hearing statements like "I don't want to put you in jail" for a guy who is too rich for fines to have an impact on is not reassuring.
I think you're missing the forest for the trees here, check out some of the other comments here, it's more complicated and nuanced than that IMO
There are [rare few???] judges like that, no joke!
I’mma reference an internet one as a kind of source for a judge I met IRL who spent his free time helping folks avoid jail:
The judge doesn’t want to give Trump’s team any ammunition for an appeal. I realize it’s absurd, but if he’s thrown in jail without significant warning then they’ll argue it biased the already liberal jury (cause NYC) against him too much.
(I am not a lawyer, that’s just my understanding.)
It's still treating Trump different than most. If it's such a problem to put Trump in jail, why isn't it for any random person?
Of course it is.
Because he is a former president of the United States who is currently running for re-election. This situation is unique in American history. As much as we may dislike these facts, they are true. The judge is in uncharted waters here, and needs to be careful to avoid anything that can be construed as evidence of bias against the defendant. This trial will be under scrutiny for as long as we have a country.
It’s not fair that most defendants do not have the essentially limitless resources of the entire conservative political machine at their disposal to pay for their legal woes, but it is the reality of the situation.
And in so doing, hold a bias for the asshole.
The judge is biased on the side of Justice. Getting the case thrown out out of principle wouldn't help anyone but Trump.
That’s bullshit and you know it.
There are established rules and procedures. When you fudge them on one side, to avoid appearing biased to the other….
That is itself bias. against your “side of justice”.
This judge is afraid of Trump; and in his fear making a mockery of justice. You know it, I know it, and Trump knows it. Even the judge knows it.
Yeah so let's treat him the same way as anyone else so he can use that as an excuse to stop the procedure against him, that will sure show him!
Of all the cases where people want the judge to treat the accused the same way they would be treated in order to prove a point, this is probably the worst one.
That’s not how it works.
You’re enabling Trump’s bullshit.
It’s (stochastic) terrorism and you’re just like “but dude! It might not stick!”
Wonder what you say when trump’s cultist kill off witnesses and jurors?
No, this random commenter on Lemmy is absolutely not enabling Trump’s bullshit. We’re just trying to explain the behavior of the judge, we have nothing to do with it.
Stochastic terrorism is, obviously, what they’re trying to avoid with the gag order. The judge and his family are already victims, and he knows full well that the jury and witnesses are at risk. No offense intended, but I suspect he understands the situation he’s in better than you do.
So you would rather see him not face any consequences for the crime he has committed except for a weekend in jai, all out of principle?
That's not what would happen tho. The trial wouldn't end if Trump is held I contempt.
It would allow him to stall everything by opening the door to questioning the judge's neutrality and missing would move forward before he got elected again.
You guys are wishing to see him held in contempt even if it means he probably won't see any other jail time after that, I'm close to the point where I'll start to think you're on his side and just want to see him win.
So you’re okay with terrorism.
Oh look, I can play that game too! The process is meant for the judge to be neutral. Any other position risks the validity of the trial.
Your argument flies in the face of justice.
And in this specific case to be able to prove it wasn't out of spite they have to be able to prove that Trump was given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. They could send him to jail right away, all that would lead to is their neutrality being questioned and a high risk of the trial being pushed back to a later date or cancelled altogether and the judge could say "I was being neutral" all they wanted, the end result would be worse than if they just wait until they reach a point where their neutrality cannot be questioned.
So again, I will ask, would you rather see Trump spend a weekend in jail and the trial ending or would you rather see Trump being fined and the trial reaching its conclusion?
These are the choices we're presented with right now, not the unicorn world you live in where Trump spends the weekend in jail after one offense and the trial then goes on as intended.
Total bullshit.
Trump has been warned ad nauseam in this one case alone. If he’s that unable to follow simple directions… he’s mentally unfit to stand trial.
Pretending like he needs to get fined for contempt before being locked up is an egregious affront to the justice system.
Literally no one else would be allowed such leeway; and there is only one code of law- it applies to everyone or it’s a joke.
That trump was ever allowed to make the judge’s own daughter a victim of terrorism… raise severe questions.
There is only one code of law that applies to this case and it states that the judge can either impose a fine of maximum 1k for each count or jail the person, so the judge is doing exactly what the code of law allows them to do.
You're still not answering the question.
Jail for the weekend at the risk of seeing him go scot-free OR fines and you're sure the trial reaches its conclusion?
Criminal court is intended to be biased towards the defendant. Hence the “beyond a reasonable doubt” burden of proof.
(Obviously that bias is often not upheld properly, and plenty of people are railroaded by the system into unjust convictions.)
The court itself might be, but the judge isn’t supposed to be.
They have procedures and guidelines, for everything involved here. Procedures and guidelines that aren’t supposed to take “ex president” into account.
Judges aren’t supposed to allow anyone to intimidate, threaten or otherwise manipulate the witnesses or jury.
Remember- the people of NY are one of the parties; and all parties are entitled to a fair trial.
I would make a terrible judge, because I don’t see how this is uncharted territory. Sure, it’s unprecedented, but that doesn’t mean we don’t know what to do.
Our entire government is made up of citizens, that was the whole point in fighting a war to get rid of an unjust monarchy, ruling from afar.
Trump is a citizen, if he broke the law he needs to go to jail. If he breaks the law during the trial, he should receive the same punishment as any other citizen would. Doing anything else just means we have a 2 tier justice system.
The fact that he has fucked up 10 times and is still a free man is ridiculous. All the judge has done is show trump that he can do whatever he wants and face no repercussions. If you did something 10 times, and then someone gets mad the 11th, you wouldn’t say “sorry my bad” you’d say “why are you mad, I do this all the time”
This country is a joke
The stakes are genuinely higher for the court (and the nation) than in your average trial. Gotta be careful.
I think 11 contempt charges represents 10 more “significant warnings” than anyone else would get.
I legitimate appeals court would accept trumps argument and illegitimate courts aren’t going to care and just side with Trump anyhow.
This isn’t for appeals… it’s for mass consumption; and it’s a massive miscarriage of justice.
If you believe this shit, you're fooling yourself. Guy's gotten ten warnings when any off-the-street plaintiff would be lucky to get one. Not only will there be ammo for appeal, Merchan is building precedent of untouchability. My man is straight up announcing
I-fucking-magine this getting said during any other trial. How much more biased can a judge get?
Playing Devil's Advocate here, but nine of those were all reviewed at the same time, and while the decision to group them all together and issue a final warning was pending, the tenth violation was committed. Technically, and this is a really big fuckin' technically, he has not committed any violations since being put "on notice" that the monetary punishments are over and the jail time would start. They decided on one today that occurred before that decision, so they're not holding it to the same standard.
I do believe the next violation will carry jail time, without a doubt. Trump has also mostly shut up since being put on notice as well because he doesn't want to be put in a cell any more than you or I do.
But it is extremely, maddeningly frustrating that Trump has gotten away with it so far. The Judge's decision today proves beyond a doubt that the law is not being equally applied in favor of Trump himself.
Honestly, I don't know if I could be an impartial judge in this case, because knowing Trump I would have warned him the very second he stepped foot in the courtroom that he was already on notice and that he should expect jail time if even a single word escaped his mouth that is in violation of the gag order that was already in place. Maybe Judge Merchan is more magnanimous, more cool-headed, or simply too wary of the blowback from applying the law equally with a megalomaniac like Trump who has an army of idiots at his back. I don't know. All I know is, I don't think he's out of line just yet, but hearing statements like "I don't want to put you in jail" for a guy who is too rich for fines to have an impact on is not reassuring.
I think you're missing the forest for the trees here, check out some of the other comments here, it's more complicated and nuanced than that IMO
There are [rare few???] judges like that, no joke!
I’mma reference an internet one as a kind of source for a judge I met IRL who spent his free time helping folks avoid jail:
https://youtube.com/@CaughtInProvidence
Privacy protecting version:
https://piped.video/@CaughtInProvidence
without significant warning
Hitler got a slap on the wrist because the judge was sympathetic. Same story here.