Or they’re the same officer with an engraving on their personal rifle they use for work
Yes, but- A. Trump is white, B. Trump is rich, C. Cops are MAGA assholes.
I agree this is two-tired bullshit, but it’s exactly what needs to happen. At the first arraignment, Merchan fined the state maximum. At the second, he fined the state maximum and threatened jail time for a future infraction, after declaring his disinterest in jailing a former President. This is how a smart judge protects his rulings from mistrial appeal, which is exactly what the defense would do under even a hint of bias. Merchan wants everything to stick, just as we all do.
Nice. I got contempt of court once and spent the weekend in jail. No ifs ands or buts about it. Judge wouldn't even let me hand my house keys to my partner. Lol
What a fucking joke.
The judge doesn’t want to give Trump’s team any ammunition for an appeal. I realize it’s absurd, but if he’s thrown in jail without significant warning then they’ll argue it biased the already liberal jury (cause NYC) against him too much.
(I am not a lawyer, that’s just my understanding.)
The judge doesn’t want to give Trump’s team any ammunition for an appeal.
It's still treating Trump different than most. If it's such a problem to put Trump in jail, why isn't it for any random person?
It's still treating Trump different than most.
Of course it is.
If it's such a problem to put Trump in jail, why isn't it for any random person?
Because he is a former president of the United States who is currently running for re-election. This situation is unique in American history. As much as we may dislike these facts, they are true. The judge is in uncharted waters here, and needs to be careful to avoid anything that can be construed as evidence of bias against the defendant. This trial will be under scrutiny for as long as we have a country.
It’s not fair that most defendants do not have the essentially limitless resources of the entire conservative political machine at their disposal to pay for their legal woes, but it is the reality of the situation.
The judge is in uncharted waters here, and needs to be careful to avoid anything that can be construed as evidence of bias against the defendant.
And in so doing, hold a bias for the asshole.
The judge is biased on the side of Justice. Getting the case thrown out out of principle wouldn't help anyone but Trump.
That’s bullshit and you know it.
There are established rules and procedures. When you fudge them on one side, to avoid appearing biased to the other….
That is itself bias. against your “side of justice”.
This judge is afraid of Trump; and in his fear making a mockery of justice. You know it, I know it, and Trump knows it. Even the judge knows it.
Yeah so let's treat him the same way as anyone else so he can use that as an excuse to stop the procedure against him, that will sure show him!
Of all the cases where people want the judge to treat the accused the same way they would be treated in order to prove a point, this is probably the worst one.
That’s not how it works.
You’re enabling Trump’s bullshit.
It’s (stochastic) terrorism and you’re just like “but dude! It might not stick!”
Wonder what you say when trump’s cultist kill off witnesses and jurors?
You’re enabling Trump’s bullshit.
No, this random commenter on Lemmy is absolutely not enabling Trump’s bullshit. We’re just trying to explain the behavior of the judge, we have nothing to do with it.
It’s (stichadtic) terrorism and you’re just like “but dude! It might not stick!”
Stochastic terrorism is, obviously, what they’re trying to avoid with the gag order. The judge and his family are already victims, and he knows full well that the jury and witnesses are at risk. No offense intended, but I suspect he understands the situation he’s in better than you do.
So you would rather see him not face any consequences for the crime he has committed except for a weekend in jai, all out of principle?
That's not what would happen tho. The trial wouldn't end if Trump is held I contempt.
It would allow him to stall everything by opening the door to questioning the judge's neutrality and missing would move forward before he got elected again.
You guys are wishing to see him held in contempt even if it means he probably won't see any other jail time after that, I'm close to the point where I'll start to think you're on his side and just want to see him win.
So you’re okay with terrorism.
Oh look, I can play that game too! The process is meant for the judge to be neutral. Any other position risks the validity of the trial.
Your argument flies in the face of justice.
And in this specific case to be able to prove it wasn't out of spite they have to be able to prove that Trump was given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. They could send him to jail right away, all that would lead to is their neutrality being questioned and a high risk of the trial being pushed back to a later date or cancelled altogether and the judge could say "I was being neutral" all they wanted, the end result would be worse than if they just wait until they reach a point where their neutrality cannot be questioned.
So again, I will ask, would you rather see Trump spend a weekend in jail and the trial ending or would you rather see Trump being fined and the trial reaching its conclusion?
These are the choices we're presented with right now, not the unicorn world you live in where Trump spends the weekend in jail after one offense and the trial then goes on as intended.
I would make a terrible judge, because I don’t see how this is uncharted territory. Sure, it’s unprecedented, but that doesn’t mean we don’t know what to do.
Our entire government is made up of citizens, that was the whole point in fighting a war to get rid of an unjust monarchy, ruling from afar.
Trump is a citizen, if he broke the law he needs to go to jail. If he breaks the law during the trial, he should receive the same punishment as any other citizen would. Doing anything else just means we have a 2 tier justice system.
The fact that he has fucked up 10 times and is still a free man is ridiculous. All the judge has done is show trump that he can do whatever he wants and face no repercussions. If you did something 10 times, and then someone gets mad the 11th, you wouldn’t say “sorry my bad” you’d say “why are you mad, I do this all the time”
I think 11 contempt charges represents 10 more “significant warnings” than anyone else would get.
I legitimate appeals court would accept trumps argument and illegitimate courts aren’t going to care and just side with Trump anyhow.
This isn’t for appeals… it’s for mass consumption; and it’s a massive miscarriage of justice.
The judge doesn’t want to give Trump’s team any ammunition for an appeal.
If you believe this shit, you're fooling yourself. Guy's gotten ten warnings when any off-the-street plaintiff would be lucky to get one. Not only will there be ammo for appeal, Merchan is building precedent of untouchability. My man is straight up announcing
The last thing I want to do is put you in jail.
I-fucking-magine this getting said during any other trial. How much more biased can a judge get?
Guy’s gotten ten warnings
Playing Devil's Advocate here, but nine of those were all reviewed at the same time, and while the decision to group them all together and issue a final warning was pending, the tenth violation was committed. Technically, and this is a really big fuckin' technically, he has not committed any violations since being put "on notice" that the monetary punishments are over and the jail time would start. They decided on one today that occurred before that decision, so they're not holding it to the same standard.
I do believe the next violation will carry jail time, without a doubt. Trump has also mostly shut up since being put on notice as well because he doesn't want to be put in a cell any more than you or I do.
But it is extremely, maddeningly frustrating that Trump has gotten away with it so far. The Judge's decision today proves beyond a doubt that the law is not being equally applied in favor of Trump himself.
Honestly, I don't know if I could be an impartial judge in this case, because knowing Trump I would have warned him the very second he stepped foot in the courtroom that he was already on notice and that he should expect jail time if even a single word escaped his mouth that is in violation of the gag order that was already in place. Maybe Judge Merchan is more magnanimous, more cool-headed, or simply too wary of the blowback from applying the law equally with a megalomaniac like Trump who has an army of idiots at his back. I don't know. All I know is, I don't think he's out of line just yet, but hearing statements like "I don't want to put you in jail" for a guy who is too rich for fines to have an impact on is not reassuring.
I think you're missing the forest for the trees here, check out some of the other comments here, it's more complicated and nuanced than that IMO
There are [rare few???] judges like that, no joke!
I’mma reference an internet one as a kind of source for a judge I met IRL who spent his free time helping folks avoid jail:
"Just 15 or 20 more times, mister! I'm not kidding this time!"
You guys rip on me 13 or 14 more times and I'm out of here. ~basketball
You should be ashamed of yourselves!
Back in the driveway, we were nothing!
Now we've risen to the highest level, but you're throwin' it all away!
If you've forgotten what baseketball means to America, you have only to look at this board - the Malaka-Laka Balance Board of Trust.
Don't you see what we have here?
A game where guys with bad backs and bad knees can... get together and compete on the same field as guys that are all goosed up on steroids.
But more than anything, isn't this game about gettin' together with your friends and just havin' a good time?
I remember. I remember a long time ago, I didn't have anybody.
You guys took me in. I guess that's why it kills me to see you like this.
If we can't be friends... then the heart and soul are out of this game. Certainly out of me. I know I'll never get that back again.
We have sullied the waters of the Lagoon of Peace!
I'm begging you, for the love of our Caribbean brothers, dudes, stop this madness!
I don’t know why I hang out with you guys!
Your mom’s dating SQUEAK!
Dude
It's 2 times. The first 9 violations were assessed as a block (it was 9 separate tweets). So this is only his second warning.
Given that the judge doesn't want to get the case thrown out on appeal, two warnings is perfectly reasonable.
Look, buddy... Your reasonabilitiness is getting in the way of my pissedoffedness. Meet me back here in two weeks so one of us can say "See? I told you so!"
I'll have to check my schedule, I think I already have an angry screaming match scheduled around that time.
Threatening him does nothing but make the judge look like a chickenshit same as the rest
"The last thing I want to do is put you in jail."
~ Judge Juan Merchan
We love our fair and impartial judiciary, don't we folks? Lets give Judge Merchan a big hand. He's helping to Make America Great Again.
I wonder if he means that in the sense of "putting you in jail is only going to empower your frankly rabid base of supporters. I need to avoid even the slightest hint of a mistrial so we can put you in prison for good."
I need to avoid even the slightest hint of a mistrial so we can put you in prison for good
I mean I'm pretty sure that's it. There's no chance whatsoever this doesn't go to appeal if he's convicted, and you don't want the case to be overturned because the appeal court thinks the judge was biased against Trump
putting you in jail is only going to empower your frankly rabid base of supporters
What does the judge think will happen should the jury returns a guilty verdict?
A jury of people selected (partly) by his own lawyers convicting him should be a lot easier of a pill to swallow for his base than a "Democrat" judge unilaterally deciding, on his own, to detain trump.
key word here is "should"
Honestly while Trumps legal team have been complaining about not being able to get a fair trial, that works both ways. I'm worried about enough MAGAts making their way onto the jury to nullify
Then the jury will be targeted instead of the judge, so he'd prefer that.
He knows that the rabid Republicans will try to twist it to say that he was jailed to prevent him from attending his own hearing. When they would gladly teleconference him in from the cell, like they do with other criminals. But that's not good enough for Donald Duck. Either this Jack-o'-lantern gets to sit there and look pretty or he will scream and cry a fit until election day comes around and it's too late.
It's all part of the nut factory's plan.
Contempt charges are usually held in a cell in the courthouse, and they just parade you out for your trial and then put you back in the cell when it's over.
He'll be able to do literally nothing but attend his own trial.
But if he starts acting out once they have him in cuffs, screaming about how his special mister person privileges are being violated, won't they be putting him back in the cell?
Bok bok!
When does this raise questions of precedent? Is everyone entitled to 10 violations of a gag order in NYC now?
Yes, if they can pay the $10,000 fine.
The judge said everyone gets warnings and fines before jail time. If he could, he'd issue a large fine, but he can't because state law caps the fine at $1,000 per violation. The judge acknowledged that a $10,000 fine for a multi-millionaire isn't even a punishment, but immediately jailing someone because they can easily afford the fine seemed wrong. Trump violated the gag order 10 times before being officially told to stop, so the judge is lumping them all into a "first" violation. He said the "second" violation absolutely will be punished with jail time. We'll see.
Bullshit fixed-value fines are only a deterrent for poors.
As is intended
Fines not tied to income are a joke
IMO It's not always that simple. Yes some countries do this but it can also backfire (and has). Some examples:
unfairly targeting rich people in order to help the town budget
previous annual incomes may be vastly different from current monthly wages (furloughed etc.)
punishment being spun as a political tool similar to trump's martyrs
Wow first bullet is a fascinating point, seems obvious now. Great insight!
...but immediately jailing someone because they can easily afford the fine seemed wrong.
No it doesn't, not even a little bit! Restrictions on their time are the only things rich people understand; they should be jailed instead of fined early and often.
And then they get the case cancelled because it's clearly bias against them that they don't get to just pay the same fee as anyone else as a first warning.
Lol...that's not how it works. You don't get a case cancelled for the judge holding someone in contempt...
You do if it's Trump and he uses it to question the judge's neutrality.
How long do you think before they replace the judge and get things started again? If you believe it won't be long enough to get him elected then I've got a bridge to sell you.
This is the second time in this criminal trial (all previous ones have been civil trials), and this me the judge stated that fines are clearly not working and that jail time could be necessary if it keeps happening.
Yes I knew we'll all believe it when it happens, but it is different now that he's in criminal court and the maximum fine has been dealt both for the first and second infringement.
Only if you can afford $10k/hr
Sounds like a small fraction of what Stormy should’ve charged
Wheres all those people that were telling me he'd be jailed with the next contempt charge?
The protection did not even ask for jail time! WTF!
A weekend in the clink without a cell phone would do the man some good.
Edit: I meant to say prosecution, but autocorrect.
Oh neat, a judge admitting that the justice system isn't blind at all and that there is a privileged class with very different rules.
Stop. Threatening.
Start. Sentencing.
It's not a sentence. This is a penalty imposed by a judge for misbehaviour in a court room, not a sentence handed down for a crime.
And the judge has to give at least a couple of warnings (this is actually the 2nd, not the 10th; the first 9 violations were all assessed as a block) or else he risks the actual case getting thrown out on appeal.
Sentencing him to jail is going to activate his base. That’s my only concern. People who have grown tired of him crying wolf will finally see this as the deep state locking away Trump to keep him from campaigning.
I could get away with ten contempt of court charges and not go to jail. /s
10th time
only now threatens jail time
Correct me but any pregraduate law student who hasn't been skipping on their classes could get rich by filing for the obvious bias the judges have to allow 10 contempts of court, wouldn't they?
This is the second ruling of contempt
First ruling was collectively over 9 comments he made.
This is the second, and said next would be jail time.
This is still from the first batch of contempt charges. The judge ruled on 9/10 and wanted more information before ruling on the 10th
This is the second, and said next would be jail time.
Didn't they say that after the first as well?
No.
And they'll say it again after the next.
So, if I am understanding correctly, as a citizen I can threaten a judge 9 times, or threaten 9 different judges, and demand that I can only be held accountable for only one of them, or for all of them as a package only once?
No, you are not understanding it correctly.
Feel free to explain then, because from here it looks like El Trumpo should have been thrown to jail 8 contempts ago, like any normal citizen. Right now if I was a US citizen I would be justified in citing precedent that I can't be sent to jail or even threatened with jail time with only 6 contempts.
No thanks
That judges threats are emptier than an Donald Trumps head.
Don't be fooled by the "10th time". There were 9 separate violations that were all brought as a single complaint last week. So technically one "time" (as in, one ruling), just regarding 9 separate tweets so technically nine separate incidents. Number ten here is basically Donnie's second strike in terms of actual warnings. If he gets a third without repercussions, then I think it'll be fair to say the judge may be bluffing.
Remember, judges have to play things a little softly if they don't want to set up precedent for appeal. He can't give Trump any reason to claim he's being treated unfairly. Two warnings is perfectly reasonable.
Fucking yawn. Wake me when Agent Orange is in prison.
Eternal slumber is essentially death though.
America is not a real place
50 states in a trenchcoat ran by a shadow agency doing the bidding of oligarchs.
"threatens" lmao ok let me know when you're actually gonna do something
If the jail time is on par with the fines he gets, he should spend about five minutes in jail. That should teach him not to do it again.
It's actually pretty likely to just be an afternoon, the first time around. Remember, this is a penalty for behaviour in court, not for the actual crimes he's done. The point is to get him to stop acting like a little child. So yeah, odds are the judge books him for an afternoon, just so he can see how bad it is, then if he still keeps at it he starts getting week long stretches until he learns to stop attacking witnesses.
Everyone complaining about the judges leniency... consider that getting locked up would be absolute gold for trumps campaign. Infinite money as well as great exposure.
Yeas it works be great to see him behind bars, but I'd prefer to play the long game.
Wish more people understood this.
Even if he was locked up for a lengthy period of time, he can campaign from jail. There is precedent for this. He has to be locked up under specific circumstances to stop his campaign.
I would wonder then what would be a better alternative? Like if he's going to milk being a martyr then how can he be punished?
He just needs to go to jail for a real crime with a penalty of many years.
If you lock him up for a couple of days it just activates his base.
Name one famous example of a charismatic coup-attempting fascist getting locked up and rallying their supporters behind a manifesto referring to “their struggle”.
Ooh ooh I know this one! The answer is Hitler!
That is irrelevant. If Trump's behavior would cause a regular schlub to be jailed, then he should be jailed, full stop. That's how the law is supposed to work.
I'm sorry but you're gravely mistaken.
A judges whole job is to interpret the law and to apply appropriate penalties given the circumstances.
In some cases crimes have prescribed penalties - "exceeding the speed limit by 5mph" probably has a prescribed penalty.
In other cases the judge must weight the circumstances and determine what penalty is appropriate.
In this case, trump is antagonising the judge because it keeps his base engaged, and keeps campaign donations flowing in. Trump wants to go to jail because it would ignite his base. Why would a judge feel that penalty is appropriate? May as well give him a blow job.
More to the point, the primary objective of any punishment in this case would be to cause Trump to desist. If putting him in jail is not going to do that, but rather give his contemptuous remarks a far greater reach, then why indeed put him in jail?
Honestly, the best course of action for the judge and the correct "punishment" for Trump is to give his various utterances the least oxygen possible while preserving the authority of the court.
Doesn't this create a precedence for being a dick to judges because they let it slide for Drowsy Don and everyone is supposed to be treated equally in front of court? I wonder what would happen if I were to be found in contempt of court for the 10th time in my trial.
He's not been warned ten times. It's ten violations. The first nine happened as a block. So this is his second strike, in terms of how often he's been reprimanded for this.
It does! Tempted to start a campaign educating the accused on their rights to harass judges and staff.
You'll run into less trouble if you just accept the fact that some people are more equal than others.
Accepting that "fact" is how we got here.
The judge seems to have a kink for holding Trump in contempt based on how ineffective the admonitions have been.
They can only fine $1000 per violation, so that's basically useless for stopping trump. Hopefully they'll escalate to jail time.
Judge you a BITCH
Maybe the Judge will actually do something useful once Trump's stochastic terrorism actually, inevitably, leads to an act of violence.
But probably not.
What TF is on his head?
A goose run over by a combine then glued back together.
Everyone knows “11 strikes and you are out”.
11 in binary is 3, so....
Well played.
Goddamn I love a math joke.
Jail him without secret service protection.
Judge ain't gonna do shit.
This could be a great way to lower inflation.
Just keep holding Trump in contempt and taking the fines out of circulation.
Or maybe we can use the fines to fund mass transit expansion.
Please stop violating the rules or else I will lightly more consider jail time, through my words alone, and give you an 11th warning.
What happened to the "3 strikes and you're out"?
Next would be the actual third strike. This was the second finding of contempt.
I was gonna say 3rd times the charm but it clearly isn't.
dewit
Trump’s hair has entered cotton candy mode
I'll do it you big meanie!!! :'(
Imgur:
lemm.ee
Still loads for me. Try a different client.
Image sharing on lemmy is a shitshow. I don’t know what to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: you’re on iOS, so I recommend that you have at least Voyager and Mlem. Each have their pros and cons. Mlem used to me my go-to, but now it’s Voyager until Mlem can catch up with some much-needed feature updates.
I tried to open externally in browser and still nothing. I'm on Android and use Connect. Oh well I'll never know
Putting him in jail is what he wants. He'll use that to make his political martyr stance. It will escalate tension in his ranks and possibly result in violence. He can use all of it in his favor bc his people believe anything.
Then do it and leave him there until he apologizes. He's such a weak little baby. He can't handle a few days in a cell.
Putting him in jail is what he wants.
shrugs
If he wants to have a conflict with the government to try to get the faithful riled up, he can induce it one way or another. It could be violating a court order or just directly breaking some law.
If that's what he's aiming for, I'm not sold that this is is a clever tactic that would play in his favor. I'm sure that there are people who it'll get worked up. But the flip side is that winning a general election entails convincing the center. And I am not at all sure that what people want, across-the-board, is more circus. I think that the people for whom it'd be compelling are weighted towards the people who are already gonna vote and vote for him. I think that the people for whom it'd be a turn-off are likely weighted towards the people who are at risk of not voting for him.
I never said it was a smart play but he will use it, just like the mugshot. That didn't hurt him but instead fueled a boost in the polls. Polls don't mean shit but he got a boost. We have a weak sitting president and Trump uses outrage as a fuel. He will capitalize on it. Instead, fine him a large amount and show he's a broke bitch. That will do a lot more.
Bet
If you put him in jail for a weekend, he'll be treated like a martyr and will be treated like a king by the cops and guards, who are surely his own supporters.
And? If his followers riot throw them in jail too. Tired of the legal system tip toeing around right wingnuts. They don't do it for anyone else.
Better arm up then, if you want things to get more explosive
So your stance is he should be above the law because you're scared of the maga klan
No. I never said he should be let off. I'm saying go ahead and jail him, but don't act like it's gonna be quiet and calm. Arm up.
Honestly. I am so sick of hearing "he'll be a martyr" as if it's a certainty. It's excusing not giving him consequences.
I'm not making it an excuse to keep him out of jail. I'm just stating a fact. Prepare for it.
Not if he breaks.
Yes, if he breaks... His supporters have literally taken the stance of "wearing diapers and shitting your pants is manly."
If he breaks, it's because that's what a man does. Hell, if video came out of him going down on some dude, you'd see all his homophobic followers wear "I suck dick for Trump" shirts, loud and proud, and with no hint of irony.
Nothing matters to them anymore except Trump, so nothing Tru.o does can dissuade them... They'll just change whatever they like/hate to stay on the team.
Even if they put him in jail, it'd be like when Capone went. He'll get his own cell by himself with a TV to watch fox news on, they'll give him a phone to tweet his bullshit, probably a personal chef to make him Big Macs and Diet Cokes.
This isn't the case that's gonna fix the justice system, even if we did throw him in jail.
Is it bad that I would sorta like to see that? The tshirt thing that is.
That's no excuse to help him avoid jail or prison. Nobody should give a damn whether it causes his followers to act out. America can handle them.
So what will change? NOTHING.
Except maybe he'll stfu
Meanwhile every other person:
gets shot for not following an officer’s orders in .5 seconds
Or shot for following orders from one officer because another officer didn't know what the first officer told you to do
Or even the same guy -- Remember Daniel Shaver? https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/youre-fucked-acquittal-officer-brailsford-and
Fuck wish I hadn’t
RIP Daniel, should never happen to anyone
Or they’re the same officer with an engraving on their personal rifle they use for work
Yes, but- A. Trump is white, B. Trump is rich, C. Cops are MAGA assholes.
I agree this is two-tired bullshit, but it’s exactly what needs to happen. At the first arraignment, Merchan fined the state maximum. At the second, he fined the state maximum and threatened jail time for a future infraction, after declaring his disinterest in jailing a former President. This is how a smart judge protects his rulings from mistrial appeal, which is exactly what the defense would do under even a hint of bias. Merchan wants everything to stick, just as we all do.
Nice. I got contempt of court once and spent the weekend in jail. No ifs ands or buts about it. Judge wouldn't even let me hand my house keys to my partner. Lol
What a fucking joke.
The judge doesn’t want to give Trump’s team any ammunition for an appeal. I realize it’s absurd, but if he’s thrown in jail without significant warning then they’ll argue it biased the already liberal jury (cause NYC) against him too much.
(I am not a lawyer, that’s just my understanding.)
It's still treating Trump different than most. If it's such a problem to put Trump in jail, why isn't it for any random person?
Of course it is.
Because he is a former president of the United States who is currently running for re-election. This situation is unique in American history. As much as we may dislike these facts, they are true. The judge is in uncharted waters here, and needs to be careful to avoid anything that can be construed as evidence of bias against the defendant. This trial will be under scrutiny for as long as we have a country.
It’s not fair that most defendants do not have the essentially limitless resources of the entire conservative political machine at their disposal to pay for their legal woes, but it is the reality of the situation.
And in so doing, hold a bias for the asshole.
The judge is biased on the side of Justice. Getting the case thrown out out of principle wouldn't help anyone but Trump.
That’s bullshit and you know it.
There are established rules and procedures. When you fudge them on one side, to avoid appearing biased to the other….
That is itself bias. against your “side of justice”.
This judge is afraid of Trump; and in his fear making a mockery of justice. You know it, I know it, and Trump knows it. Even the judge knows it.
Yeah so let's treat him the same way as anyone else so he can use that as an excuse to stop the procedure against him, that will sure show him!
Of all the cases where people want the judge to treat the accused the same way they would be treated in order to prove a point, this is probably the worst one.
That’s not how it works.
You’re enabling Trump’s bullshit.
It’s (stochastic) terrorism and you’re just like “but dude! It might not stick!”
Wonder what you say when trump’s cultist kill off witnesses and jurors?
No, this random commenter on Lemmy is absolutely not enabling Trump’s bullshit. We’re just trying to explain the behavior of the judge, we have nothing to do with it.
Stochastic terrorism is, obviously, what they’re trying to avoid with the gag order. The judge and his family are already victims, and he knows full well that the jury and witnesses are at risk. No offense intended, but I suspect he understands the situation he’s in better than you do.
So you would rather see him not face any consequences for the crime he has committed except for a weekend in jai, all out of principle?
That's not what would happen tho. The trial wouldn't end if Trump is held I contempt.
It would allow him to stall everything by opening the door to questioning the judge's neutrality and missing would move forward before he got elected again.
You guys are wishing to see him held in contempt even if it means he probably won't see any other jail time after that, I'm close to the point where I'll start to think you're on his side and just want to see him win.
So you’re okay with terrorism.
Oh look, I can play that game too! The process is meant for the judge to be neutral. Any other position risks the validity of the trial.
Your argument flies in the face of justice.
And in this specific case to be able to prove it wasn't out of spite they have to be able to prove that Trump was given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. They could send him to jail right away, all that would lead to is their neutrality being questioned and a high risk of the trial being pushed back to a later date or cancelled altogether and the judge could say "I was being neutral" all they wanted, the end result would be worse than if they just wait until they reach a point where their neutrality cannot be questioned.
So again, I will ask, would you rather see Trump spend a weekend in jail and the trial ending or would you rather see Trump being fined and the trial reaching its conclusion?
These are the choices we're presented with right now, not the unicorn world you live in where Trump spends the weekend in jail after one offense and the trial then goes on as intended.
Criminal court is intended to be biased towards the defendant. Hence the “beyond a reasonable doubt” burden of proof.
(Obviously that bias is often not upheld properly, and plenty of people are railroaded by the system into unjust convictions.)
The court itself might be, but the judge isn’t supposed to be.
They have procedures and guidelines, for everything involved here. Procedures and guidelines that aren’t supposed to take “ex president” into account.
Judges aren’t supposed to allow anyone to intimidate, threaten or otherwise manipulate the witnesses or jury.
Remember- the people of NY are one of the parties; and all parties are entitled to a fair trial.
I would make a terrible judge, because I don’t see how this is uncharted territory. Sure, it’s unprecedented, but that doesn’t mean we don’t know what to do.
Our entire government is made up of citizens, that was the whole point in fighting a war to get rid of an unjust monarchy, ruling from afar.
Trump is a citizen, if he broke the law he needs to go to jail. If he breaks the law during the trial, he should receive the same punishment as any other citizen would. Doing anything else just means we have a 2 tier justice system.
The fact that he has fucked up 10 times and is still a free man is ridiculous. All the judge has done is show trump that he can do whatever he wants and face no repercussions. If you did something 10 times, and then someone gets mad the 11th, you wouldn’t say “sorry my bad” you’d say “why are you mad, I do this all the time”
This country is a joke
The stakes are genuinely higher for the court (and the nation) than in your average trial. Gotta be careful.
I think 11 contempt charges represents 10 more “significant warnings” than anyone else would get.
I legitimate appeals court would accept trumps argument and illegitimate courts aren’t going to care and just side with Trump anyhow.
This isn’t for appeals… it’s for mass consumption; and it’s a massive miscarriage of justice.
If you believe this shit, you're fooling yourself. Guy's gotten ten warnings when any off-the-street plaintiff would be lucky to get one. Not only will there be ammo for appeal, Merchan is building precedent of untouchability. My man is straight up announcing
I-fucking-magine this getting said during any other trial. How much more biased can a judge get?
Playing Devil's Advocate here, but nine of those were all reviewed at the same time, and while the decision to group them all together and issue a final warning was pending, the tenth violation was committed. Technically, and this is a really big fuckin' technically, he has not committed any violations since being put "on notice" that the monetary punishments are over and the jail time would start. They decided on one today that occurred before that decision, so they're not holding it to the same standard.
I do believe the next violation will carry jail time, without a doubt. Trump has also mostly shut up since being put on notice as well because he doesn't want to be put in a cell any more than you or I do.
But it is extremely, maddeningly frustrating that Trump has gotten away with it so far. The Judge's decision today proves beyond a doubt that the law is not being equally applied in favor of Trump himself.
Honestly, I don't know if I could be an impartial judge in this case, because knowing Trump I would have warned him the very second he stepped foot in the courtroom that he was already on notice and that he should expect jail time if even a single word escaped his mouth that is in violation of the gag order that was already in place. Maybe Judge Merchan is more magnanimous, more cool-headed, or simply too wary of the blowback from applying the law equally with a megalomaniac like Trump who has an army of idiots at his back. I don't know. All I know is, I don't think he's out of line just yet, but hearing statements like "I don't want to put you in jail" for a guy who is too rich for fines to have an impact on is not reassuring.
I think you're missing the forest for the trees here, check out some of the other comments here, it's more complicated and nuanced than that IMO
There are [rare few???] judges like that, no joke!
I’mma reference an internet one as a kind of source for a judge I met IRL who spent his free time helping folks avoid jail:
https://youtube.com/@CaughtInProvidence
Privacy protecting version:
https://piped.video/@CaughtInProvidence
without significant warning
Hitler got a slap on the wrist because the judge was sympathetic. Same story here.
Wow, he must have really learned his lesson from the last 9 telling offs.
At $1,000 a pop, paid for by his cultists, he doesn't care.
Sort of my point.
Susan Collins has entered the chat
Oh fuck you for reminding me of that shit. Damn near a day ruiner.
It was one telling off, for 9 separate tweets that the judge was made aware of. So this is his second warning.
FUCKING DO IT YOU PUSSY!
"Just 15 or 20 more times, mister! I'm not kidding this time!"
You guys rip on me 13 or 14 more times and I'm out of here. ~basketball
You should be ashamed of yourselves!
Back in the driveway, we were nothing!
Now we've risen to the highest level, but you're throwin' it all away!
If you've forgotten what baseketball means to America, you have only to look at this board - the Malaka-Laka Balance Board of Trust.
Don't you see what we have here?
A game where guys with bad backs and bad knees can... get together and compete on the same field as guys that are all goosed up on steroids.
But more than anything, isn't this game about gettin' together with your friends and just havin' a good time?
I remember. I remember a long time ago, I didn't have anybody.
You guys took me in. I guess that's why it kills me to see you like this.
If we can't be friends... then the heart and soul are out of this game. Certainly out of me. I know I'll never get that back again.
We have sullied the waters of the Lagoon of Peace!
I'm begging you, for the love of our Caribbean brothers, dudes, stop this madness!
I don’t know why I hang out with you guys!
Your mom’s dating SQUEAK!
Dude
It's 2 times. The first 9 violations were assessed as a block (it was 9 separate tweets). So this is only his second warning.
Given that the judge doesn't want to get the case thrown out on appeal, two warnings is perfectly reasonable.
Look, buddy... Your reasonabilitiness is getting in the way of my pissedoffedness. Meet me back here in two weeks so one of us can say "See? I told you so!"
I'll have to check my schedule, I think I already have an angry screaming match scheduled around that time.
Threatening him does nothing but make the judge look like a chickenshit same as the rest
"The last thing I want to do is put you in jail."
~ Judge Juan Merchan
We love our fair and impartial judiciary, don't we folks? Lets give Judge Merchan a big hand. He's helping to Make America Great Again.
I wonder if he means that in the sense of "putting you in jail is only going to empower your frankly rabid base of supporters. I need to avoid even the slightest hint of a mistrial so we can put you in prison for good."
I mean I'm pretty sure that's it. There's no chance whatsoever this doesn't go to appeal if he's convicted, and you don't want the case to be overturned because the appeal court thinks the judge was biased against Trump
What does the judge think will happen should the jury returns a guilty verdict?
A jury of people selected (partly) by his own lawyers convicting him should be a lot easier of a pill to swallow for his base than a "Democrat" judge unilaterally deciding, on his own, to detain trump.
key word here is "should"
Honestly while Trumps legal team have been complaining about not being able to get a fair trial, that works both ways. I'm worried about enough MAGAts making their way onto the jury to nullify
Then the jury will be targeted instead of the judge, so he'd prefer that.
He knows that the rabid Republicans will try to twist it to say that he was jailed to prevent him from attending his own hearing. When they would gladly teleconference him in from the cell, like they do with other criminals. But that's not good enough for Donald Duck. Either this Jack-o'-lantern gets to sit there and look pretty or he will scream and cry a fit until election day comes around and it's too late.
It's all part of the nut factory's plan.
Contempt charges are usually held in a cell in the courthouse, and they just parade you out for your trial and then put you back in the cell when it's over. He'll be able to do literally nothing but attend his own trial.
But if he starts acting out once they have him in cuffs, screaming about how his special mister person privileges are being violated, won't they be putting him back in the cell?
Bok bok!
When does this raise questions of precedent? Is everyone entitled to 10 violations of a gag order in NYC now?
Yes, if they can pay the $10,000 fine.
The judge said everyone gets warnings and fines before jail time. If he could, he'd issue a large fine, but he can't because state law caps the fine at $1,000 per violation. The judge acknowledged that a $10,000 fine for a multi-millionaire isn't even a punishment, but immediately jailing someone because they can easily afford the fine seemed wrong. Trump violated the gag order 10 times before being officially told to stop, so the judge is lumping them all into a "first" violation. He said the "second" violation absolutely will be punished with jail time. We'll see.
Bullshit fixed-value fines are only a deterrent for poors.
As is intended
Fines not tied to income are a joke
IMO It's not always that simple. Yes some countries do this but it can also backfire (and has). Some examples:
unfairly targeting rich people in order to help the town budget
previous annual incomes may be vastly different from current monthly wages (furloughed etc.)
punishment being spun as a political tool similar to trump's martyrs
Wow first bullet is a fascinating point, seems obvious now. Great insight!
No it doesn't, not even a little bit! Restrictions on their time are the only things rich people understand; they should be jailed instead of fined early and often.
And then they get the case cancelled because it's clearly bias against them that they don't get to just pay the same fee as anyone else as a first warning.
Lol...that's not how it works. You don't get a case cancelled for the judge holding someone in contempt...
You do if it's Trump and he uses it to question the judge's neutrality.
How long do you think before they replace the judge and get things started again? If you believe it won't be long enough to get him elected then I've got a bridge to sell you.
This is the second time in this criminal trial (all previous ones have been civil trials), and this me the judge stated that fines are clearly not working and that jail time could be necessary if it keeps happening.
Yes I knew we'll all believe it when it happens, but it is different now that he's in criminal court and the maximum fine has been dealt both for the first and second infringement.
Only if you can afford $10k/hr
Sounds like a small fraction of what Stormy should’ve charged
Wheres all those people that were telling me he'd be jailed with the next contempt charge?
The protection did not even ask for jail time! WTF!
A weekend in the clink without a cell phone would do the man some good.
Edit: I meant to say prosecution, but autocorrect.
Oh neat, a judge admitting that the justice system isn't blind at all and that there is a privileged class with very different rules.
Stop. Threatening.
Start. Sentencing.
It's not a sentence. This is a penalty imposed by a judge for misbehaviour in a court room, not a sentence handed down for a crime.
And the judge has to give at least a couple of warnings (this is actually the 2nd, not the 10th; the first 9 violations were all assessed as a block) or else he risks the actual case getting thrown out on appeal.
Sentencing him to jail is going to activate his base. That’s my only concern. People who have grown tired of him crying wolf will finally see this as the deep state locking away Trump to keep him from campaigning.
I could get away with ten contempt of court charges and not go to jail. /s
Correct me but any pregraduate law student who hasn't been skipping on their classes could get rich by filing for the obvious bias the judges have to allow 10 contempts of court, wouldn't they?
This is the second ruling of contempt
First ruling was collectively over 9 comments he made.
This is the second, and said next would be jail time.
This is still from the first batch of contempt charges. The judge ruled on 9/10 and wanted more information before ruling on the 10th
Didn't they say that after the first as well?
No.
And they'll say it again after the next.
So, if I am understanding correctly, as a citizen I can threaten a judge 9 times, or threaten 9 different judges, and demand that I can only be held accountable for only one of them, or for all of them as a package only once?
No, you are not understanding it correctly.
Feel free to explain then, because from here it looks like El Trumpo should have been thrown to jail 8 contempts ago, like any normal citizen. Right now if I was a US citizen I would be justified in citing precedent that I can't be sent to jail or even threatened with jail time with only 6 contempts.
No thanks
That judges threats are emptier than an Donald Trumps head.
Don't be fooled by the "10th time". There were 9 separate violations that were all brought as a single complaint last week. So technically one "time" (as in, one ruling), just regarding 9 separate tweets so technically nine separate incidents. Number ten here is basically Donnie's second strike in terms of actual warnings. If he gets a third without repercussions, then I think it'll be fair to say the judge may be bluffing.
Remember, judges have to play things a little softly if they don't want to set up precedent for appeal. He can't give Trump any reason to claim he's being treated unfairly. Two warnings is perfectly reasonable.
Fucking yawn. Wake me when Agent Orange is in prison.
Eternal slumber is essentially death though.
America is not a real place
50 states in a trenchcoat ran by a shadow agency doing the bidding of oligarchs.
"threatens" lmao ok let me know when you're actually gonna do something
If the jail time is on par with the fines he gets, he should spend about five minutes in jail. That should teach him not to do it again.
It's actually pretty likely to just be an afternoon, the first time around. Remember, this is a penalty for behaviour in court, not for the actual crimes he's done. The point is to get him to stop acting like a little child. So yeah, odds are the judge books him for an afternoon, just so he can see how bad it is, then if he still keeps at it he starts getting week long stretches until he learns to stop attacking witnesses.
Everyone complaining about the judges leniency... consider that getting locked up would be absolute gold for trumps campaign. Infinite money as well as great exposure.
Yeas it works be great to see him behind bars, but I'd prefer to play the long game.
Wish more people understood this.
Even if he was locked up for a lengthy period of time, he can campaign from jail. There is precedent for this. He has to be locked up under specific circumstances to stop his campaign.
I would wonder then what would be a better alternative? Like if he's going to milk being a martyr then how can he be punished?
He just needs to go to jail for a real crime with a penalty of many years.
If you lock him up for a couple of days it just activates his base.
Name one famous example of a charismatic coup-attempting fascist getting locked up and rallying their supporters behind a manifesto referring to “their struggle”.
Ooh ooh I know this one! The answer is Hitler!
That is irrelevant. If Trump's behavior would cause a regular schlub to be jailed, then he should be jailed, full stop. That's how the law is supposed to work.
I'm sorry but you're gravely mistaken.
A judges whole job is to interpret the law and to apply appropriate penalties given the circumstances.
In some cases crimes have prescribed penalties - "exceeding the speed limit by 5mph" probably has a prescribed penalty.
In other cases the judge must weight the circumstances and determine what penalty is appropriate.
In this case, trump is antagonising the judge because it keeps his base engaged, and keeps campaign donations flowing in. Trump wants to go to jail because it would ignite his base. Why would a judge feel that penalty is appropriate? May as well give him a blow job.
More to the point, the primary objective of any punishment in this case would be to cause Trump to desist. If putting him in jail is not going to do that, but rather give his contemptuous remarks a far greater reach, then why indeed put him in jail?
Honestly, the best course of action for the judge and the correct "punishment" for Trump is to give his various utterances the least oxygen possible while preserving the authority of the court.
Doesn't this create a precedence for being a dick to judges because they let it slide for Drowsy Don and everyone is supposed to be treated equally in front of court? I wonder what would happen if I were to be found in contempt of court for the 10th time in my trial.
He's not been warned ten times. It's ten violations. The first nine happened as a block. So this is his second strike, in terms of how often he's been reprimanded for this.
It does! Tempted to start a campaign educating the accused on their rights to harass judges and staff.
You'll run into less trouble if you just accept the fact that some people are more equal than others.
Accepting that "fact" is how we got here.
The judge seems to have a kink for holding Trump in contempt based on how ineffective the admonitions have been.
They can only fine $1000 per violation, so that's basically useless for stopping trump. Hopefully they'll escalate to jail time.
Judge you a BITCH
Maybe the Judge will actually do something useful once Trump's stochastic terrorism actually, inevitably, leads to an act of violence.
But probably not.
What TF is on his head?
A goose run over by a combine then glued back together.
Everyone knows “11 strikes and you are out”.
11 in binary is 3, so....
Well played.
Goddamn I love a math joke.
Jail him without secret service protection.
Judge ain't gonna do shit.
This could be a great way to lower inflation. Just keep holding Trump in contempt and taking the fines out of circulation.
Or maybe we can use the fines to fund mass transit expansion.
Please stop violating the rules or else I will lightly more consider jail time, through my words alone, and give you an 11th warning.
What happened to the "3 strikes and you're out"?
Next would be the actual third strike. This was the second finding of contempt.
I was gonna say 3rd times the charm but it clearly isn't.
dewit
Trump’s hair has entered cotton candy mode
I'll do it you big meanie!!! :'(
Imgur:
lemm.ee
Still loads for me. Try a different client.
Image sharing on lemmy is a shitshow. I don’t know what to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: you’re on iOS, so I recommend that you have at least Voyager and Mlem. Each have their pros and cons. Mlem used to me my go-to, but now it’s Voyager until Mlem can catch up with some much-needed feature updates.
I tried to open externally in browser and still nothing. I'm on Android and use Connect. Oh well I'll never know
How does it look now?
100 hours of trash pickup per violation
Putting him in jail is what he wants. He'll use that to make his political martyr stance. It will escalate tension in his ranks and possibly result in violence. He can use all of it in his favor bc his people believe anything.
Then do it and leave him there until he apologizes. He's such a weak little baby. He can't handle a few days in a cell.
shrugs
If he wants to have a conflict with the government to try to get the faithful riled up, he can induce it one way or another. It could be violating a court order or just directly breaking some law.
If that's what he's aiming for, I'm not sold that this is is a clever tactic that would play in his favor. I'm sure that there are people who it'll get worked up. But the flip side is that winning a general election entails convincing the center. And I am not at all sure that what people want, across-the-board, is more circus. I think that the people for whom it'd be compelling are weighted towards the people who are already gonna vote and vote for him. I think that the people for whom it'd be a turn-off are likely weighted towards the people who are at risk of not voting for him.
I never said it was a smart play but he will use it, just like the mugshot. That didn't hurt him but instead fueled a boost in the polls. Polls don't mean shit but he got a boost. We have a weak sitting president and Trump uses outrage as a fuel. He will capitalize on it. Instead, fine him a large amount and show he's a broke bitch. That will do a lot more.
Bet
If you put him in jail for a weekend, he'll be treated like a martyr and will be treated like a king by the cops and guards, who are surely his own supporters.
And? If his followers riot throw them in jail too. Tired of the legal system tip toeing around right wingnuts. They don't do it for anyone else.
Better arm up then, if you want things to get more explosive
So your stance is he should be above the law because you're scared of the maga klan
No. I never said he should be let off. I'm saying go ahead and jail him, but don't act like it's gonna be quiet and calm. Arm up.
Honestly. I am so sick of hearing "he'll be a martyr" as if it's a certainty. It's excusing not giving him consequences.
I'm not making it an excuse to keep him out of jail. I'm just stating a fact. Prepare for it.
Not if he breaks.
Yes, if he breaks... His supporters have literally taken the stance of "wearing diapers and shitting your pants is manly."
If he breaks, it's because that's what a man does. Hell, if video came out of him going down on some dude, you'd see all his homophobic followers wear "I suck dick for Trump" shirts, loud and proud, and with no hint of irony.
Nothing matters to them anymore except Trump, so nothing Tru.o does can dissuade them... They'll just change whatever they like/hate to stay on the team.
Even if they put him in jail, it'd be like when Capone went. He'll get his own cell by himself with a TV to watch fox news on, they'll give him a phone to tweet his bullshit, probably a personal chef to make him Big Macs and Diet Cokes.
This isn't the case that's gonna fix the justice system, even if we did throw him in jail.
Is it bad that I would sorta like to see that? The tshirt thing that is.
That's no excuse to help him avoid jail or prison. Nobody should give a damn whether it causes his followers to act out. America can handle them.
So what will change? NOTHING. Except maybe he'll stfu