I never understood the obsession with homeownership.
I've owned. It kinda sucked. The things most people think of as "pros" (like being able to renovate) were not that great for me. I'd spend a lot of time thinking about things I could change/improve, and then doing them.
My brain operates differently renting. I don't really care about things like that since its not an option in the first place. It saves me time/money/stress and I spend more time living my life instead of maintaining a property.
Of course there are drawbacks with renting, specifically shitty landlords, but to me there are more pros than cons.
Property ownership is the clearest path for generational wealth. It may suck to own, but you are building an asset and you can hand it off to future generations to have a head start with.
It's a broken system, I am not advocating for it as a good system, but it's the primary reason to own a home.
the thing is - there's a lot of variables that shift the balance towards renting when looking within a time frame, even from a financial perspective.
how long you can stay in one place and whether that fits your needs both today and in a few decades
% of down payment and missed earnings if this money went towards another investment
interest rates
property taxes
HOA fees, if any
likely higher insurance rates over renting
maintenance costs
In the end of the day, since many variables have a large uncertainty, that's a bit of a gamble. Home ownership tends to win over time, but the longer one looks into the future, the higher this uncertainty also is.
Finally sane people! Holy shit you're like a unicorn.
There are DEFINITELY cases where many people are CHOOSING to rent because they simply DON'T want to own. That's perfectly okay. Both options have pros and cons.
Shitty landlords do exist... But homeownership has a boatload of issues that come with it too that you simply cannot shop around for.
I've owned my own house for the past 5 years. I'm in a position where it makes sense. Before that? Well over a decade of renting. And it wouldn't have made sense any other way.
The lack of nuance in opinion otherwise is maddening.
agreed.
vast majority of folks in the USA see renting as this repulsive awful stupid thing that nobody would ever do if they weren't poor.
it's nuts. renting makes a lot more sense for a lot of situations. and vast majority don't buy until they are married and having families anyway.
this really annoys me too
judging by the comments there's a lot of people thinking "my mortgage is $ X renting this would be $ Y. $Y > $X, therefore owning is better."
Add all those costs above, then one can think of comparing both. Also, the property I'd buy is not the same I'd rent at all - these two have very different requirements IMO. One is for a few years and the other is meant for a few decades. I can get a much better location around where I live because I'm renting and it's still very affordable.
You're missing a few advantages to owning-
If you have to move, you can often get the money that you spent on the mortgage back, or even make a profit.
A mortgage is generally cheaper than rent.
While some may not be interested in renovating, it's a relatively low-effort activity that pays for itself if you sell the property.
Can have a garden
I'm missing all advantages of owning (or renting), that was not the intent.
you can rent and have a garden and rent is cheaper than a mortgage in a comparable area.
when people buy they often have to move further out to a cheaper area to get a mortgage
my mortgage is more than my rent and isn't as nearly in as nice of a place and convent of a location. on top of that and having to do home reapir (not renovation) i have less disposible income than I did a few years ago.
it's trade offs. i miss being in a more social area and having more disposible income, and somtimes i regret buying.
Ah yeah, not the case in my area. Rent for an apartment is about twice as much as a mortgage.
What if you're not going to have a next generation? Is there still a good reason to own?
It's still the most effective way to accumulate wealth within a single generation, so it can be an asset to use for retirement.
Again, not advocating for the system, I think property ownership is problematic, but I am explaining why it can be beneficial within the current system
The only hobbies I actually enjoy require space: gardening and lapidary "arts" (gem/stone cutting). I can't buy equipment because I don't have the space to store them and having to move every 2-3 years is not only very difficult when you have more stuff but also really damn expensive.
So there's that, and there's retirement. Having set expenses (aside from taxes) is super important and you'll never have that with renting when you're retired.
Then again who am I kidding, I'm 38 and working in a factory. My retirement will be whenever I decide to buy a gun lol
I'm currently renting a home for space for gardening. Tomato seedlings went out last weekend :)
So there’s that, and there’s retirement. Having set expenses (aside from taxes) is super important and you’ll never have that with renting when you’re retired.
I don't consider my home a retirement vehicle. I save separately for that. But I do understand that for some people, it is, and that's understandable.
Its a retirement vehicle in that it prevents future rent raises from threatening your retirement, not in that you can/should live off of your home's equity. Nobody wants to go back to work at 85 because their rent doubled.
Especially if you aren't financially that well off or on a good career track, I think it's really appealing just for the stability it affords. My current landlord has been a pretty good guy for us, but if I owned my apartment rather than renting, I wouldn't have to worry that I'll suddenly need to pay a ton more money if he dies and his kids decide to jack up the rent, or worse, having to uproot my life entirely and move out because of someone else's whims.
You don't have to go all the way to renovating before you see the advantages of homeownership. It shows up even in much smaller home improvements.
A small example: a few years ago my refrigerator broke, and the technician said it's behind repair. My landlord had to buy a new one, and of course he picked a cheap model.
If I was an homeowning instead of renting, I would have bought a much better refrigerator at trice the cost. But I won't pay that much for an appliance I'm not going to own, and my landlord won't pay it for one he wouldn't use, so I'm stuck with a cheap and noisy refrigerator.
And this is the situation with everything that's considered a part of the house. Even if I have the money to buy nice things - I can't have them.
If I was an homeowning instead of renting, I would have bought a much better refrigerator at trice the cost. But I won’t pay that much for an appliance I’m not going to own, and my landlord won’t pay it for one he wouldn’t use, so I’m stuck with a cheap and noisy refrigerator.
Right, I've been on both sides of your example. I've both bought a refrigerator while owning a home (and picked a more expensive model), and I've also had a fridge replaced by a landlord with a cheap model.
Again, for me the renting side of this is a "pro". I will second guess not splurging if I know it is an option while owning. If I rent, I just don't care because its not an option in the first place, and I love that.
I feel the same way. I currently own a home, but I honestly want to sell. For me, it's mostly about the flexibility. I hate not having the flexibility to up and move if a new job opportunity presents itself or I just want to try a new place.
There's also a crap ton of expenses associated with owning beyond just the mortgage, insurance, and taxes.
Homeownership is still cheaper. Every cent that goes towards rent you’ll never see again. At least at the end of your mortgage you have something you can sell to recoup most of what you spent. Or rent it out.
While although taxes can go up your mortgage never will. Your rent will.
My mortgage is $1700. If I were renting this place it would easily be going for $2400 if not more.
Sure, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. For me, it's about flexibility. And I put a crap ton of money into the house that I will never see again. Just regular maintenance, landscaping needs, etc. Thinks you don't have to think about or pay for when renting.
It’s basically finances vs convenience. By renting you’re paying for convenience. But you’re taking the hit in your finances.
And just because you’re renting doesn’t mean you’re absolved of the landscaping fees. If you rent a house it’s expected that you’re still mowing the lawn and paying those expenses. Otherwise you live in an apartment where those costs are handed down to you through rent.
There is a lot to consider there but in the end you’ll be spending more money which you’ll never see again by renting.
I absolutely loved my apartment, but I pulled myself out of it because it was just far too much money and I knew that nearly all of that money was going into a hole.
Lived with a buddy for 2 years to save up a down payment, and got a house that's nice - but honestly the renovation bit that I couldn't do with an apartment that I really like is that I put solar panels on it. I wouldn't have that option if I was still in my apartment.
And of course I pay people to mow the lawn, so some money still goes in a hole for sure, as it is with paying mortgage interest. But I have way more control now over how much, and whenever I plan to move I can trade a lot of that money going into the mortgage for wherever I go next, or pass it on.
not paying 1/2 to 3/4 of my salary on rent is a big upside to me. but then again if we are talking about the us, there are probably a thousand fees and ways they siphon your money away anyway.
Ugh, the whole renovation thing is a pain in the ass. My mom watches renovation shows all day while the house has fallen into smelly disrepair over the last twenty years.
She keeps talking about painting this or knocking out that wall or installing all new fixtures 'so it can be nice for the next people (she's in her 80s and plans on dying there).
I keep telling her that no matter how much money she wastes 'fixing' the place up, the people that eventually buy it are going to gut it and do their own thing.
One little old lady using a total of three rooms in a 4br3b house.
She dreams that I'll settle down and want a quiet place in the suburbs, but I hate the neighborhood and most of the people that live there. If she were hit by a bus tomorrow I'll call the first Cash For Houses scam I see so I don't have to deal with any of that.
/Rant
because in usa culture homeownership grants you higher social status and it's seen as an investment.
renting = lower status, second class citizen, poor
owning = high status, first class citizen, 'successful'
Blackout@kbin.run to 
I never understood the obsession with homeownership.
I've owned. It kinda sucked. The things most people think of as "pros" (like being able to renovate) were not that great for me. I'd spend a lot of time thinking about things I could change/improve, and then doing them.
My brain operates differently renting. I don't really care about things like that since its not an option in the first place. It saves me time/money/stress and I spend more time living my life instead of maintaining a property.
Of course there are drawbacks with renting, specifically shitty landlords, but to me there are more pros than cons.
Property ownership is the clearest path for generational wealth. It may suck to own, but you are building an asset and you can hand it off to future generations to have a head start with.
It's a broken system, I am not advocating for it as a good system, but it's the primary reason to own a home.
the thing is - there's a lot of variables that shift the balance towards renting when looking within a time frame, even from a financial perspective.
In the end of the day, since many variables have a large uncertainty, that's a bit of a gamble. Home ownership tends to win over time, but the longer one looks into the future, the higher this uncertainty also is.
Finally sane people! Holy shit you're like a unicorn.
There are DEFINITELY cases where many people are CHOOSING to rent because they simply DON'T want to own. That's perfectly okay. Both options have pros and cons.
Shitty landlords do exist... But homeownership has a boatload of issues that come with it too that you simply cannot shop around for.
I've owned my own house for the past 5 years. I'm in a position where it makes sense. Before that? Well over a decade of renting. And it wouldn't have made sense any other way.
The lack of nuance in opinion otherwise is maddening.
agreed.
vast majority of folks in the USA see renting as this repulsive awful stupid thing that nobody would ever do if they weren't poor.
it's nuts. renting makes a lot more sense for a lot of situations. and vast majority don't buy until they are married and having families anyway.
this really annoys me too
judging by the comments there's a lot of people thinking "my mortgage is $ X renting this would be $ Y. $Y > $X, therefore owning is better."
Add all those costs above, then one can think of comparing both. Also, the property I'd buy is not the same I'd rent at all - these two have very different requirements IMO. One is for a few years and the other is meant for a few decades. I can get a much better location around where I live because I'm renting and it's still very affordable.
You're missing a few advantages to owning-
I'm missing all advantages of owning (or renting), that was not the intent.
you can rent and have a garden and rent is cheaper than a mortgage in a comparable area.
when people buy they often have to move further out to a cheaper area to get a mortgage
my mortgage is more than my rent and isn't as nearly in as nice of a place and convent of a location. on top of that and having to do home reapir (not renovation) i have less disposible income than I did a few years ago.
it's trade offs. i miss being in a more social area and having more disposible income, and somtimes i regret buying.
Ah yeah, not the case in my area. Rent for an apartment is about twice as much as a mortgage.
What if you're not going to have a next generation? Is there still a good reason to own?
It's still the most effective way to accumulate wealth within a single generation, so it can be an asset to use for retirement.
Again, not advocating for the system, I think property ownership is problematic, but I am explaining why it can be beneficial within the current system
The only hobbies I actually enjoy require space: gardening and lapidary "arts" (gem/stone cutting). I can't buy equipment because I don't have the space to store them and having to move every 2-3 years is not only very difficult when you have more stuff but also really damn expensive.
So there's that, and there's retirement. Having set expenses (aside from taxes) is super important and you'll never have that with renting when you're retired.
Then again who am I kidding, I'm 38 and working in a factory. My retirement will be whenever I decide to buy a gun lol
I'm currently renting a home for space for gardening. Tomato seedlings went out last weekend :)
I don't consider my home a retirement vehicle. I save separately for that. But I do understand that for some people, it is, and that's understandable.
Its a retirement vehicle in that it prevents future rent raises from threatening your retirement, not in that you can/should live off of your home's equity. Nobody wants to go back to work at 85 because their rent doubled.
Especially if you aren't financially that well off or on a good career track, I think it's really appealing just for the stability it affords. My current landlord has been a pretty good guy for us, but if I owned my apartment rather than renting, I wouldn't have to worry that I'll suddenly need to pay a ton more money if he dies and his kids decide to jack up the rent, or worse, having to uproot my life entirely and move out because of someone else's whims.
You don't have to go all the way to renovating before you see the advantages of homeownership. It shows up even in much smaller home improvements.
A small example: a few years ago my refrigerator broke, and the technician said it's behind repair. My landlord had to buy a new one, and of course he picked a cheap model.
If I was an homeowning instead of renting, I would have bought a much better refrigerator at trice the cost. But I won't pay that much for an appliance I'm not going to own, and my landlord won't pay it for one he wouldn't use, so I'm stuck with a cheap and noisy refrigerator.
And this is the situation with everything that's considered a part of the house. Even if I have the money to buy nice things - I can't have them.
Right, I've been on both sides of your example. I've both bought a refrigerator while owning a home (and picked a more expensive model), and I've also had a fridge replaced by a landlord with a cheap model.
Again, for me the renting side of this is a "pro". I will second guess not splurging if I know it is an option while owning. If I rent, I just don't care because its not an option in the first place, and I love that.
I feel the same way. I currently own a home, but I honestly want to sell. For me, it's mostly about the flexibility. I hate not having the flexibility to up and move if a new job opportunity presents itself or I just want to try a new place.
There's also a crap ton of expenses associated with owning beyond just the mortgage, insurance, and taxes.
Homeownership is still cheaper. Every cent that goes towards rent you’ll never see again. At least at the end of your mortgage you have something you can sell to recoup most of what you spent. Or rent it out.
While although taxes can go up your mortgage never will. Your rent will.
My mortgage is $1700. If I were renting this place it would easily be going for $2400 if not more.
Sure, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. For me, it's about flexibility. And I put a crap ton of money into the house that I will never see again. Just regular maintenance, landscaping needs, etc. Thinks you don't have to think about or pay for when renting.
It’s basically finances vs convenience. By renting you’re paying for convenience. But you’re taking the hit in your finances.
And just because you’re renting doesn’t mean you’re absolved of the landscaping fees. If you rent a house it’s expected that you’re still mowing the lawn and paying those expenses. Otherwise you live in an apartment where those costs are handed down to you through rent.
There is a lot to consider there but in the end you’ll be spending more money which you’ll never see again by renting.
I absolutely loved my apartment, but I pulled myself out of it because it was just far too much money and I knew that nearly all of that money was going into a hole.
Lived with a buddy for 2 years to save up a down payment, and got a house that's nice - but honestly the renovation bit that I couldn't do with an apartment that I really like is that I put solar panels on it. I wouldn't have that option if I was still in my apartment.
And of course I pay people to mow the lawn, so some money still goes in a hole for sure, as it is with paying mortgage interest. But I have way more control now over how much, and whenever I plan to move I can trade a lot of that money going into the mortgage for wherever I go next, or pass it on.
not paying 1/2 to 3/4 of my salary on rent is a big upside to me. but then again if we are talking about the us, there are probably a thousand fees and ways they siphon your money away anyway.
Ugh, the whole renovation thing is a pain in the ass. My mom watches renovation shows all day while the house has fallen into smelly disrepair over the last twenty years.
She keeps talking about painting this or knocking out that wall or installing all new fixtures 'so it can be nice for the next people (she's in her 80s and plans on dying there).
I keep telling her that no matter how much money she wastes 'fixing' the place up, the people that eventually buy it are going to gut it and do their own thing.
One little old lady using a total of three rooms in a 4br3b house.
She dreams that I'll settle down and want a quiet place in the suburbs, but I hate the neighborhood and most of the people that live there. If she were hit by a bus tomorrow I'll call the first Cash For Houses scam I see so I don't have to deal with any of that.
/Rant
because in usa culture homeownership grants you higher social status and it's seen as an investment.
renting = lower status, second class citizen, poor
owning = high status, first class citizen, 'successful'
that's it.