Im sure those of us that do have exemptions other than the standard will see our tax prep fees skyrocket
Some progress is better then no progress, and TurboTax et. al. losing in any way is a victory for the rest of us.
Why is the USA the only country to have those problems, AND complain about getting free stuff?
Some people in the USA want a solution that immediately fixes every possible problem, and don't quite get the concept of starting small and fixing other stuff over time.
It's the same with gun control. Some states want to tighten gun laws, and some people are like "that won't solve all the problems! We need nationwide laws!". Sure, but why not accept the win that more and more states are starting to do something, rather than complaining that some problems still exist?
are you not capable of taking a win? it's a HUGE step towards disassembling predatory cpas and tax software.
it’s a HUGE step towards disassembling predatory cpas and tax software.
Its a regular sized step, as its targeted primarily at simple filers. But the cutoff is incredibly low. You can't use it if you've got retirement savings through an IRA, if you've got deductions for college expenses, or if you're claiming the child care deduction. I'd wager that's at least half the people who bother to file returns.
Definitely good news for folks that H&R Block likes to fleece - anyone collecting EITC or Child Tax Credits and not much else. But hardly universal.
do you think it won't eventually add that stuff? pretty naive to just "meh" and basically call it a failure. nothing happens overnight.
It's not a "failure" but I wouldn't call it a huge win either. It's a small victory with a tiny horn to toot.
IIRC there was a free version of Turbo Tax that did the same thing years ago... so we're catching up to the old free version now.
*An old free version that was purposefully hidden and buried by reverse SEO tactics, but yeah
Yeah, very limited, but it's very good for more than half of the population that don't have enough deductions to exceed the standard and don't own property (if you properly count houseless "households" that earn income as not owning property and not just renters like most statistics). It's dumb that they have to file a return anyway just to acres money that never should have been collected. Most just don't know how to properly file their W-4 to not have taxes withheld in the first place. Mostly because they follow the directions and/or are afraid of paying a fine plus interest.
Anyway, it's a step in the right direction. And if we can unbury all of the staff out of the pile of paper returns, we can devote some to go after the rich and their frivolous, often fraudulent deductions and have them pay the tax they owe.
Most just don’t know how to properly file their W-4 to not have taxes withheld in the first place.
How do you do this? How do you calculate what to personally withhold and pay? Is it simply calculating through the income tax?
There's a worksheet that usually comes with it where you answer questions about your living situation - single/married, homeowner/renter, how many kids, etc. - and it gives you a number to put in. It's pretty accurate. I've done it at every job and aside from years with tax credits I've never gotten back more than a few hundred bucks.
I've had 1099s and tax credits and I've never sent in a paper return. I keep the records in case of an audit but it's not like e-file hasn't existed forever.
But it hasn't always been free to file electronically. The government made it required for them to offer free versions for simple returns, but that was recent.
Also, access to the Internet isn't universal. You'd be surprised how much of the US doesn't have affordable Internet and a fair number don't have Internet available at all, or limited to just dialup which is not very useful. And a lot of apps don't work right on phone browsers, especially older phones, so then you need a desktop or laptop which a lot of people don't have. Some have access in libraries, but a lot don't or traveling to a library is a burden. And lots of other reasons that internet isn't a given for a large portion of households. So paper is still not just necessary, but the easiest way.
Maybe not. You will have the same number of tax preparers chasing less work. Through the magic of the Free Market™️, shouldn’t that mean pressure to reduce prices? We can only hope.
I already saw it reflected this year. My tax prep went up $150
Freetaxusa does them for like 20 bucks
I use them. I love telling friends I use that because it sounds like such a scam site
Yeah idk why anyone thought that name was a good idea for their marketing
"just put your social here..."
I'm no statistics major, but that's like 100% of the sample!!!
Competition does NOT make prices go up, lol.
Well, the point was that it isn't competition in his scenario. I hope the exclusion of 1099 is temporary, because I had a 1099 for like a few dollars because I had a savings account that technically accrued interest, so as it stands that makes me ineligible. So his concern would be that because the tax prep services are competing against 'free' for that tier, that they'll ramp up prices for the rest to compensate for loss of income.
Hypothetical question: If you omitted the couple bucks of income from the 1099 on that one savings account and you later got audited- how much money would you be on the hook for? what would the consequences be in worst case and likely case scenarios?
I honestly think the government has next to no resources now to go after tax cheats that aren't hiding tens to hundreds of thousands of owed taxes... but would love to hear what others have to say. I suspect missing out on less than a dollar of taxes from omitting a single figure 1099 would not be big enough to chase and if found probably less costly than hiring a preparer every year when averaged out over your lifetime of tax returns.
Perhaps practically speaking you probably would get an automated form from IRS demanding a few dollars. But it'd be nice if qualification for 'direct file' option didn't rely on "mild tax evasion" for people with savings accounts.
I would suggest you get hired by the IRS and start rewriting all their ancient code to build in and allow every deduction rule and that it's applied correctly every time so everyone can use it.
The tax laws are so large and so complex and the code running all this stuff is so old and now locked in because they didn't keep up with updating their software as they went along. I'm amazed they got this far. Oh, and like you, I can't use it either. But that's why I have an accountant.
Free if you have no other exemptions to file.
1099? Nope Depreciation? Nope Tax credits? Nope
Makes for a great headline though.
Im sure those of us that do have exemptions other than the standard will see our tax prep fees skyrocket
Some progress is better then no progress, and TurboTax et. al. losing in any way is a victory for the rest of us.
Why is the USA the only country to have those problems, AND complain about getting free stuff?
Some people in the USA want a solution that immediately fixes every possible problem, and don't quite get the concept of starting small and fixing other stuff over time.
It's the same with gun control. Some states want to tighten gun laws, and some people are like "that won't solve all the problems! We need nationwide laws!". Sure, but why not accept the win that more and more states are starting to do something, rather than complaining that some problems still exist?
are you not capable of taking a win? it's a HUGE step towards disassembling predatory cpas and tax software.
Its a regular sized step, as its targeted primarily at simple filers. But the cutoff is incredibly low. You can't use it if you've got retirement savings through an IRA, if you've got deductions for college expenses, or if you're claiming the child care deduction. I'd wager that's at least half the people who bother to file returns.
Definitely good news for folks that H&R Block likes to fleece - anyone collecting EITC or Child Tax Credits and not much else. But hardly universal.
do you think it won't eventually add that stuff? pretty naive to just "meh" and basically call it a failure. nothing happens overnight.
It's not a "failure" but I wouldn't call it a huge win either. It's a small victory with a tiny horn to toot.
IIRC there was a free version of Turbo Tax that did the same thing years ago... so we're catching up to the old free version now.
*An old free version that was purposefully hidden and buried by reverse SEO tactics, but yeah
Yeah, very limited, but it's very good for more than half of the population that don't have enough deductions to exceed the standard and don't own property (if you properly count houseless "households" that earn income as not owning property and not just renters like most statistics). It's dumb that they have to file a return anyway just to acres money that never should have been collected. Most just don't know how to properly file their W-4 to not have taxes withheld in the first place. Mostly because they follow the directions and/or are afraid of paying a fine plus interest.
Anyway, it's a step in the right direction. And if we can unbury all of the staff out of the pile of paper returns, we can devote some to go after the rich and their frivolous, often fraudulent deductions and have them pay the tax they owe.
How do you do this? How do you calculate what to personally withhold and pay? Is it simply calculating through the income tax?
There's a worksheet that usually comes with it where you answer questions about your living situation - single/married, homeowner/renter, how many kids, etc. - and it gives you a number to put in. It's pretty accurate. I've done it at every job and aside from years with tax credits I've never gotten back more than a few hundred bucks.
I've had 1099s and tax credits and I've never sent in a paper return. I keep the records in case of an audit but it's not like e-file hasn't existed forever.
But it hasn't always been free to file electronically. The government made it required for them to offer free versions for simple returns, but that was recent.
Also, access to the Internet isn't universal. You'd be surprised how much of the US doesn't have affordable Internet and a fair number don't have Internet available at all, or limited to just dialup which is not very useful. And a lot of apps don't work right on phone browsers, especially older phones, so then you need a desktop or laptop which a lot of people don't have. Some have access in libraries, but a lot don't or traveling to a library is a burden. And lots of other reasons that internet isn't a given for a large portion of households. So paper is still not just necessary, but the easiest way.
Maybe not. You will have the same number of tax preparers chasing less work. Through the magic of the Free Market™️, shouldn’t that mean pressure to reduce prices? We can only hope.
I already saw it reflected this year. My tax prep went up $150
Freetaxusa does them for like 20 bucks
I use them. I love telling friends I use that because it sounds like such a scam site
Yeah idk why anyone thought that name was a good idea for their marketing
"just put your social here..."
I'm no statistics major, but that's like 100% of the sample!!!
Competition does NOT make prices go up, lol.
Well, the point was that it isn't competition in his scenario. I hope the exclusion of 1099 is temporary, because I had a 1099 for like a few dollars because I had a savings account that technically accrued interest, so as it stands that makes me ineligible. So his concern would be that because the tax prep services are competing against 'free' for that tier, that they'll ramp up prices for the rest to compensate for loss of income.
Hypothetical question: If you omitted the couple bucks of income from the 1099 on that one savings account and you later got audited- how much money would you be on the hook for? what would the consequences be in worst case and likely case scenarios?
I honestly think the government has next to no resources now to go after tax cheats that aren't hiding tens to hundreds of thousands of owed taxes... but would love to hear what others have to say. I suspect missing out on less than a dollar of taxes from omitting a single figure 1099 would not be big enough to chase and if found probably less costly than hiring a preparer every year when averaged out over your lifetime of tax returns.
Perhaps practically speaking you probably would get an automated form from IRS demanding a few dollars. But it'd be nice if qualification for 'direct file' option didn't rely on "mild tax evasion" for people with savings accounts.
I would suggest you get hired by the IRS and start rewriting all their ancient code to build in and allow every deduction rule and that it's applied correctly every time so everyone can use it.
The tax laws are so large and so complex and the code running all this stuff is so old and now locked in because they didn't keep up with updating their software as they went along. I'm amazed they got this far. Oh, and like you, I can't use it either. But that's why I have an accountant.
I read
1099? Nope depreciation. Nope tax credits? Nope