Fascists always vote = fascists get what they want = idiots saying "voting doesn't work"
pretty sure it;'s not the voting.
pretty sure it's everything OTHER than the voting that gets them what they want. and the liberals refusing to let anyone stop them.
you'll notice that even when a fascist loses an election, like in 2000, they still get their guy in office sometimes.
Yep. Fascists and the far right in general are always pushing their policies and ideas in any way they can, wether in office or not, they are fighting like its the last week of voting 24/7 365.
Liberals think that just voting every couple years and shaming anyone who doesn't vote will stop that, but then they all go to brunch if they win and people realize they Aren't helping at all (and in many ways hurting the cause) so they don't bother next time.
Then Republicans win, and liberals come back out, often times against things they *happily support under Democrat rule (immigration is a good example, Obama was hard on immigration and it was ignored, Republicans created a fake border crisis and liberals called them racist and fascist, then Biden started doing those same policies and they're just normal)
or the fascists lose electoralism, and get the office anyway, because the left isn't big enough to fight them and the libs are happy to just let them.
and yeah the weird gaslighting ratchet effect 'im going to do the exact same thing the last guy did but libs are going to yell at you for not sucking my dick about it now' is not cool
also, you know, when they do riots to get their way. sometimes in an election.
You don't vote for facsism or vote away facsism.
The people "voted away" facsism in 2020. Didn't work then, because it doesn't work.
This comment is the perfect example of why fascism has a habit of winning. Laziness from the populace. One election in one office is all you're willing to commit. We voted one time in one election, why wasn't that enough? One office wasn't run by a fascist and that's got to do it for the entire country for the rest of all time I guess. One vote is all you're willing to commit. People who don't understand fight against fascism is a lifetime of work are the people who deserve fascism. Beating fascism is about building a strong Democratic populace. About building a system and a society that respects the Democratic process. It takes decades and it has to be renewed constantly. Also wouldn't be a bad idea to just go around hanging fascist every 30 or 50 years or so either, that's also an option.
People don't want to hear that! Sheesh!
But really. Some people think voting and protesting is the epitome off not being lazy about about it, but it's the bare minimum.
You think ACAB? Be a cop and be the exception. You think the problem is higher up? Get involved in politics. You think it's corporate? Get involved with ethical companies, and shun unethical ones.
You think you shouldn't have to? That's because you've gotten lazy. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's just easy to take advantage of - and if you don't like the results of the laziness, eventually you'll like them so little you'll have to do something or die - and you'll probably get motivated at that point.
This is a very privileged point of view
bro every complaint and problem in your life other than eating, drinking, and sleeping is literally a privileged problem.
Eating, drinking, and "sleeping" (shelter/safety) are significant hurdles for a large portion of the population
which is why those aren't privileged takes :)
That's a very psychologically weak take, and comes from the privilege of not having to take up these matters into your own hands, because our society had enough flexibility that you haven't had to. ..but that kind of weakness is pretty common these days, because people don't have a lot to live for.
Regardless of whether you have a lot of power, personally, or whether you don't have a lot of power, spending what you do have ethically and prudently matters a lot. Although many may not be able to make things better on their own, many have enough power that they will regret inaction later, when action becomes absolutely necessary, and no real preparation has been made.
In short: Call it privilege all you like, see where that gets you.
its like you ignored his comment and responded to something else entirely. weird stuff.
This comment is the perfect example of why fascism has a habit of winning. Laziness from the populace. One election in one office is all you're willing to commit.
I didn't say anything about laziness or not opposing facsism in multiple ways. Voting once every 4 years is the laziest way of "opposing facsism" of thus the least effective, especially when the party you are voting for pushes fascistic policy (like aiding genocide and anti-immigrant narratives...).
People who don't understand fight against fascism is a lifetime of work are the people who deserve fascism.
NOBODY deserves facsism. Comments like this show how unseriously you take facsism, that's probably why you think you can just vote it away. I take it serious and recognize that the fight against it requires real ground work and more than having people vote for fascist light every so often.
I didn't say you said it I said you were an example of it. Hell you just did it again, every 4 years you say. Exactly the issue. You people think it's a one-time game. It's not , it's constant. It's every Congressional race it's every senate race it's every state race it's every School Board Race. The fight is unending. Also yeah some people deserve fascism, they're called the people that sit on their ass and let it overwhelm them. People that aren't willing to fight it are the ones who deserve it. Cuz they're the ones that enable it more than anyone else.
I agree it takes groundwork, what kind of ground work is my question though. Real groundwork? The kind of groundwork that endorses democracy and respect for democracy? The kind of ground work that keeps progressively moving us away from fascism step by step? Yeah that's the kind of ground work we need. That's the kind of ground work you're sitting here arguing against. Your groundwork is vote one time in one election and then turn your nose up at the entire process and sabotage anyone who wants to keep fighting. You all or nothing people are the problem. When you're steering a nation it takes a long time for the rudder to move. It takes constant pressure to change course. That course change is going to take years and maybe even decades but you have to keep pushing on the rudder. If you never try you go where you were headed in the first place. That's what your endorsing here. One brief nudge and then sitting on your ass. Doesn't move anything.
What do you think about direct action?
How do you define Direct? I'm open to a very wide range of it whether it's from going door to door all the way through throwing bombs into the carriage of a tsar. Action's fantastic particularly at local level, in fact primarily at the local level. Up to and including Carriage routes.
If you're capable of implementing a structure that can actually stand, direct action may be warranted. If not, then not, unless violent anarchy is better.
Start small. Build your structure and run some group that way. ..and expand.
The kind of groundwork that lets people know that their interests lies in the people and community and not in sacrificing those things to vote for a saviour.
Example: do you know how hard it is to get people to care about undocumented immigrants? Specifically how much harder it is now then pre-2020? Do you know why?
Because those saviours you convinced them of have turned and told them that Republicans were actually right about immigration all along and it is a national security issue rather than a human rights issue.
Yup. There it is. The path of fascism victory. Exactly what I've been saying. Thank you.
Yep, encouraging people to care for one another rather than playing team sports between 2 parties, neither of which care for people, is totally the path to fascism. /s
No. Voting for the normalization of fascist policy is what leads to fascism. Look at Britain. Labour compromised on immigration during the election and now they have anti-immigrant riots and pogroms.
That's what you are advocating for. That's what electoralism gets you.
you work with what you’ve got until you have something better… right now, you have a vote between 2 teams… get the fuck over it and vote, and in between work for something better
but right now, in this moment, in november
YOU FUCKING VOTE AGAINST THE MOST FASCIST
i’m am not an american
i live across the other side of the world
we have to live with the consequences of your decisions
why didn't it work? Trump literally isn't in office today. Unless we're talking about jan 6th, but that's an institutional problem, not a fascism problem.
Facsism isn't when Donald Trump.
We are aiding a genocide, cracking down on protests against said genocide, demonizing immigrants, police reform hasn't happened...how exactly did we defeat facsism?
fascism isn't when anything, fascism is literally just an authoritarian control structure powered by a chain of loyalty of unwavering support (hey wait a minute this sounds more like donald trump) further empowered through the use of violence to accomplish goals (hey wait a minute, this sounds more like donald trump also)
We are aiding a genocide, cracking down on protests against said genocide, demonizing immigrants, police reform hasn’t happened…how exactly did we defeat facsism?
literally none of the things you list here are fascism, also the police thing isn't explicitly true, a lot of places did engage some level of de-policing, just to different levels. A lot places legalized weed, some places de-criminalized drug use, a lot of drug and low time offenders are getting light sentences.
The problem is institutional lag and inertia, you cannot simply delete an entire police force over night, you need to improve the community first, and then delete the police force, otherwise things become nightmarish. It would also help if the motto wasn't literally "defund the police" because that was a pretty fucking stupid choice of words.
Once community starts to improve, and crime starts to drop, the police will naturally follow, taxpayers dont like funding unnecessary police force, and police departments prefer not to host extraneous expenses.
Well it sounds like you have the secret knowledge of how to eliminate fascism.
Put the keyboard away and show us...
genuinely surprised they even said "fascism is not when donald trump" even though donald trump is the most textbook fascist in the US right now, and then proceeded to talk about defunding the police lol.
Fascists always vote = fascists get what they want = idiots saying "voting doesn't work"
pretty sure it;'s not the voting.
pretty sure it's everything OTHER than the voting that gets them what they want. and the liberals refusing to let anyone stop them.
you'll notice that even when a fascist loses an election, like in 2000, they still get their guy in office sometimes.
Yep. Fascists and the far right in general are always pushing their policies and ideas in any way they can, wether in office or not, they are fighting like its the last week of voting 24/7 365.
Liberals think that just voting every couple years and shaming anyone who doesn't vote will stop that, but then they all go to brunch if they win and people realize they Aren't helping at all (and in many ways hurting the cause) so they don't bother next time.
Then Republicans win, and liberals come back out, often times against things they *happily support under Democrat rule (immigration is a good example, Obama was hard on immigration and it was ignored, Republicans created a fake border crisis and liberals called them racist and fascist, then Biden started doing those same policies and they're just normal)
or the fascists lose electoralism, and get the office anyway, because the left isn't big enough to fight them and the libs are happy to just let them.
and yeah the weird gaslighting ratchet effect 'im going to do the exact same thing the last guy did but libs are going to yell at you for not sucking my dick about it now' is not cool
also, you know, when they do riots to get their way. sometimes in an election.
You don't vote for facsism or vote away facsism.
The people "voted away" facsism in 2020. Didn't work then, because it doesn't work.
This comment is the perfect example of why fascism has a habit of winning. Laziness from the populace. One election in one office is all you're willing to commit. We voted one time in one election, why wasn't that enough? One office wasn't run by a fascist and that's got to do it for the entire country for the rest of all time I guess. One vote is all you're willing to commit. People who don't understand fight against fascism is a lifetime of work are the people who deserve fascism. Beating fascism is about building a strong Democratic populace. About building a system and a society that respects the Democratic process. It takes decades and it has to be renewed constantly. Also wouldn't be a bad idea to just go around hanging fascist every 30 or 50 years or so either, that's also an option.
People don't want to hear that! Sheesh!
But really. Some people think voting and protesting is the epitome off not being lazy about about it, but it's the bare minimum.
You think ACAB? Be a cop and be the exception. You think the problem is higher up? Get involved in politics. You think it's corporate? Get involved with ethical companies, and shun unethical ones.
You think you shouldn't have to? That's because you've gotten lazy. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's just easy to take advantage of - and if you don't like the results of the laziness, eventually you'll like them so little you'll have to do something or die - and you'll probably get motivated at that point.
This is a very privileged point of view
bro every complaint and problem in your life other than eating, drinking, and sleeping is literally a privileged problem.
Eating, drinking, and "sleeping" (shelter/safety) are significant hurdles for a large portion of the population
which is why those aren't privileged takes :)
That's a very psychologically weak take, and comes from the privilege of not having to take up these matters into your own hands, because our society had enough flexibility that you haven't had to. ..but that kind of weakness is pretty common these days, because people don't have a lot to live for.
Regardless of whether you have a lot of power, personally, or whether you don't have a lot of power, spending what you do have ethically and prudently matters a lot. Although many may not be able to make things better on their own, many have enough power that they will regret inaction later, when action becomes absolutely necessary, and no real preparation has been made.
In short: Call it privilege all you like, see where that gets you.
its like you ignored his comment and responded to something else entirely. weird stuff.
I didn't say anything about laziness or not opposing facsism in multiple ways. Voting once every 4 years is the laziest way of "opposing facsism" of thus the least effective, especially when the party you are voting for pushes fascistic policy (like aiding genocide and anti-immigrant narratives...).
NOBODY deserves facsism. Comments like this show how unseriously you take facsism, that's probably why you think you can just vote it away. I take it serious and recognize that the fight against it requires real ground work and more than having people vote for fascist light every so often.
I didn't say you said it I said you were an example of it. Hell you just did it again, every 4 years you say. Exactly the issue. You people think it's a one-time game. It's not , it's constant. It's every Congressional race it's every senate race it's every state race it's every School Board Race. The fight is unending. Also yeah some people deserve fascism, they're called the people that sit on their ass and let it overwhelm them. People that aren't willing to fight it are the ones who deserve it. Cuz they're the ones that enable it more than anyone else.
I agree it takes groundwork, what kind of ground work is my question though. Real groundwork? The kind of groundwork that endorses democracy and respect for democracy? The kind of ground work that keeps progressively moving us away from fascism step by step? Yeah that's the kind of ground work we need. That's the kind of ground work you're sitting here arguing against. Your groundwork is vote one time in one election and then turn your nose up at the entire process and sabotage anyone who wants to keep fighting. You all or nothing people are the problem. When you're steering a nation it takes a long time for the rudder to move. It takes constant pressure to change course. That course change is going to take years and maybe even decades but you have to keep pushing on the rudder. If you never try you go where you were headed in the first place. That's what your endorsing here. One brief nudge and then sitting on your ass. Doesn't move anything.
What do you think about direct action?
How do you define Direct? I'm open to a very wide range of it whether it's from going door to door all the way through throwing bombs into the carriage of a tsar. Action's fantastic particularly at local level, in fact primarily at the local level. Up to and including Carriage routes.
Show us how, genius
If you're capable of implementing a structure that can actually stand, direct action may be warranted. If not, then not, unless violent anarchy is better.
Start small. Build your structure and run some group that way. ..and expand.
The kind of groundwork that lets people know that their interests lies in the people and community and not in sacrificing those things to vote for a saviour.
Example: do you know how hard it is to get people to care about undocumented immigrants? Specifically how much harder it is now then pre-2020? Do you know why?
Because those saviours you convinced them of have turned and told them that Republicans were actually right about immigration all along and it is a national security issue rather than a human rights issue.
Yup. There it is. The path of fascism victory. Exactly what I've been saying. Thank you.
Yep, encouraging people to care for one another rather than playing team sports between 2 parties, neither of which care for people, is totally the path to fascism. /s
No. Voting for the normalization of fascist policy is what leads to fascism. Look at Britain. Labour compromised on immigration during the election and now they have anti-immigrant riots and pogroms.
That's what you are advocating for. That's what electoralism gets you.
you work with what you’ve got until you have something better… right now, you have a vote between 2 teams… get the fuck over it and vote, and in between work for something better
but right now, in this moment, in november
YOU FUCKING VOTE AGAINST THE MOST FASCIST
i’m am not an american
i live across the other side of the world
we have to live with the consequences of your decisions
we don’t get a choice in the matter
why didn't it work? Trump literally isn't in office today. Unless we're talking about jan 6th, but that's an institutional problem, not a fascism problem.
Facsism isn't when Donald Trump.
We are aiding a genocide, cracking down on protests against said genocide, demonizing immigrants, police reform hasn't happened...how exactly did we defeat facsism?
fascism isn't when anything, fascism is literally just an authoritarian control structure powered by a chain of loyalty of unwavering support (hey wait a minute this sounds more like donald trump) further empowered through the use of violence to accomplish goals (hey wait a minute, this sounds more like donald trump also)
literally none of the things you list here are fascism, also the police thing isn't explicitly true, a lot of places did engage some level of de-policing, just to different levels. A lot places legalized weed, some places de-criminalized drug use, a lot of drug and low time offenders are getting light sentences.
The problem is institutional lag and inertia, you cannot simply delete an entire police force over night, you need to improve the community first, and then delete the police force, otherwise things become nightmarish. It would also help if the motto wasn't literally "defund the police" because that was a pretty fucking stupid choice of words.
Once community starts to improve, and crime starts to drop, the police will naturally follow, taxpayers dont like funding unnecessary police force, and police departments prefer not to host extraneous expenses.
Well it sounds like you have the secret knowledge of how to eliminate fascism.
Put the keyboard away and show us...
genuinely surprised they even said "fascism is not when donald trump" even though donald trump is the most textbook fascist in the US right now, and then proceeded to talk about defunding the police lol.