'We are all Gisèle': French women rise up against 'rape culture' during Gisèle Pelicot trial
They line up in front of a courthouse in southeastern France, from morning to evening, and have gathered in the thousands in cities across the country. They hold signs reading, "one rape every six minutes," "not all men but always a man," and "giving in is not consenting."
They chant: "Rapist we see you, victim we believe you."
Women across France are rallying in support of Gisèle Pelicot, a 72-year-old reluctant icon whose husband is on trial in the city of Avignon for systematically drugging her and inviting dozens of men, 50 of whom are now his co-defendants, into their home to rape her over nearly a decade.
The shocking case has sparked what many women in France call a long-overdue reckoning over "rape culture" and systemic sexism in the way the judicial system handles sexual violence.
Exactly. If anything, signs like these drag the attention away from the actual issue.
I mean this thread is a good example of that and why such signs are bad
And pray tell, what exactly is the "real" issue?
Men and women being victims of sexual abuse, perpetrated by both men and women. It is not a genderlocked issue.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/
From your article, "In fact, 96 percent of women who report rape or sexual assault in the NCVS were abused by men."
Those are the kinds of numbers that come from laws defining rape as penetration and then only counting convictions.
Kind of like how the US had zero married women that were victims of rape by their husbands when it wasn't a crime for husbands to rape their wives.
that quote you gave was taken entirely out of context. here’s the very next sentence:
No but the number of assaults by men far outweigh the number by women. And that Scientific American article is just your way of brushing off the fact that men are the primary offenders when it comes to sexual assault. You are exactly like the gun enthusiasts who throw the statistics on mental illness as the true cause of gun deaths and not the guns they use.
Edit: Just cause you seem to be including that link everywhere you post here I'm going to include this link to the 2024 study of sexual assault in France.
https://www.statista.com/topics/8875/violence-against-women-in-france/#topicOverview
"Primary" does not mean "always" however
Oh yeah, you got me there. Statistically small number of women who commit sexual assault completely absolves all men of being complicit in the sexual assault committed by mostly men. We definitely have to correct our perceptions on that one. Sure okay.
hey as a guy who was assaulted, please stop saying all men are complicit. do you understand what you're saying when you say that?
You are basically validating the people who are trying to dismiss the assaults by men by using the "women do it too!" defense.
I'm sorry for what happened to you and you deserve justice and support. But so do the literally millions upon millions of women who have been assaulted by men who are basically ignored or intimidated by our society into staying silent about their experience.
incredibly ironic. how can you dismiss assault and say I'm the one dismissing it? jesus please get a grip and get off the fucking internet. why did I even try?
If you actually read my comment you'll notice I did not dismiss anything.
Just stop and go away, please. No one wants to read your bigotry around here, you're not impressing anyone.
Sorry you're getting this reaction. I am a man who was abused by women and all the support groups lead to me taking to a room full of women about it. Do men come forward less often? Yes. It would have to be like 1 in 100 men coming forward for it to be equal. I've had one other male friend who has been assaulted, but over half of the women I've been friends with have.
If it helps anyone with that being anecdotal, you have to look at the statistics of who is doing it: people in power. Just that alone means more men simply have the opportunity. Add to that that men are told sex is power, and that men who have sex often are virile, whereas women who do are slut shamed. It's getting better, but still far off.
Anyway I'll take the downvotes, but every statistic we have shown is that men are the primary antagonist in the vast majority of sexual assault against both men and women.
I'm sorry you were abused and I really wish this were a world where this sort of thing didn't happen.
Well the idea with protests like this is to shine so bright a light on it that we force governments to act. If we do that enough, we can make this happen less and less to everyone.
As many of the comments in this post have demonstrated, far too many people are more interested in whataboutism and not very interested in creating true accountability. Until we overcome this bias I don't know if we're going to be able to really hold governments accountable for this sort of thing. When women talk about the patriarchy, this is what they're referring to.
Personally, I would imagine that the real issue with THIS ARTICLE is the picture they chose to forefront it. Why would they choose that one? Rage engagement, to drive engagement and ad revenue, because it has been proven time and time again, that divisiveness brings money. There is a lot of coverage about her and her bravery, as it should be, because she is a massive hero.
If we choose any other posts about the case, that don't drive themselves on such divisiveness, and and consider the top comments, we can see that the focus is where it should be, on her story and his conviction, yet they rarely get as much engagement as this one.
It is manufactured ragebait to feed the algorithm, using divisiveness as its drive. And it is both succeeding, and taking away from the real point, her story and the support and help that she, and all rape victims deserve.
Yeah the problem is the picture on the article and not the men on here who took immediate offense to it instead of paying attention to the actual message and problem. Which is rampant sexual assault that is basically being ignored by the authorities and society at large.
This woman was unknowingly raped by more than 50 men (possibly hundreds) over god knows how long. All orchestrated by her husband. Some of those people were supposedly highly respected individuals and yet not one of them saw anything wrong with what they were doing.
But your anger is with the woman holding up a sign saying "not all men but always men". You are exactly like the people who took umbrage at the black lives matter protests because they were saying "black lives matter" and not "all lives matter". To be blunt, you're missing the message. Not because you don't actually get it. But because you don't want to.
Holy shit, take a breath, calm down, and go touch grass. Funny that you see no problem with generalizations like “always a man”, but fail to see the irony in your response. Do more men than women commit sexual violence/asssaults? Absolutely. Is it ALWAYS a man who is the one committing this crime? Absolutely not.
Your constant refusal to even acknowledge this fact is why you’re not convincing anyone of your points.
A woman was raped over decades by 51 men and your issue is the article has a picture you don't like as the opening image?
You're just trying to create drama, anybody not braindead can see that what was done to her was beyond atrocious and that she is a hero. Yet the publisher of that article deliberately chose a picture that divisive to generate engagement, get clicks and thus, get paid.
I have been very vocal about this case since the start, because what was done to her was an absolute atrocity, and Gisele literally waived her right to anonimity in order to raise awareness about it. She is a hero, he is a monster, and that is what we should all be focusing on, yet whoever published this article, simply decided to fling mud.
We're all being manipulated, my dear.
You got downvoted in a comment thread like this for being a sexist ass and yes I define sexism as discrimination against someone on the basis of their sex
Women can rape people and so can Men
By the logic of stereotyping all men as rapists because some of them commit rape you could say the entirety of humanity is evil because of those capitalist assholes and bigots
Stop ignoring that both Female and Male sexes can commit rape
Stereotyping every Man as a rapist and ignoring the female rapists is sexist
I don't beleive you replied to that person in good faith based on your other interactions on this thread
We solve problems by not ignoring certain parts of them or the entire problem
Ignoring problems only allows them to grow bigger
I'd really like to see updated statistics when things like gendered laws that define it as something like unconsentual penetration with a penis is taken into account
Rape isn't a gendered thing, both male amd female sexes should do it and it shouldn't have a gendered legal definition
And so, what's the course of action? To give all men some sterilization treatment?
How does this help with anything?
And, I promise you, the real numbers are probably scarily equal, just like with domestic abuse. Because men are definitely taught to never come forward with those.
But even if the true ratio was 1:50, what's the solution? Let's write the law that when it's a man, he gets a double prison sentence. Or maybe the police shouldn't believe men who say they were assaulted, but vise-versa barely check, cuz for sure it's true?
Criminal statistics should in no way enforce the course of justice or legislation. They could only maybe influence where money is allocated in prevention campaigns. At best.
Who the hell said that?
The plan is to make it so the system actually helps the victims. That's the idea. These protests bring light to the issue.
Cool guess, stats say you're wrong.
See above.
Seriously this is fucking embarrassing, you're creating constant strawman arguments without any basis of anything reported.
So how exactly am I complicit for some dude raping someone? Just because I have a penis? And are all women completely exempt or are all women also complicit?
Sexual assault is bad. Apparently you disagree.
Reading the article, it says that both men and women attended the protest against rape culture in France, so the real issue is that France has a rape culture. People vs culture.
This comment section however is about a few of the signs that a few of the protesters carried, and/or the comments from the self proclaimed feminist representative who says they'll use these protests to promote their own agenda. That's different, because that's a gender issue. Men vs. Women.
I understand why some people are annoyed by that, because it splits the people instead of uniting them against the primary enemy: The culture.
Anyway this is just a lemmy thread, and it doesn't matter who is right, but it shows that even talking about it is a distraction from the "real issue", because while we are discussing signs and rape statistics, nobody is talking about the rape culture.
I don't know exactly what the feminist representative wants to do, or if she has a point, but I do believe that we need to be able to unite both men and women to speak freely against the culture, because rape culture is enabled by people who don't speak about it. Alienating half of them is bad timing in that regard. To stop rape culture we need both men and women to speak against it.
I hope this makes sense. This thread has gone completely off the rails..