Trump found something he’s really good at. The Gish Gallop technique in a debate. An absolute natural. With no moderators fact-checking, and the opponent with a silenced mic, he just ignores the questions, and lies in rapid sequence like a Gatling gun so his opponent has no chance of responding, challenging, or you know, debating.
A quick-thinking opponent could absolutely counter it. She could say "Hey, Donald, you didn't answer the question. It had nothing to do with immigration. Let me answer it for you. Your position is X, Y, and Z, which is bad for Americans. Mine is A, B, and C, which is good."
Can Joe do that?
That's not really how a gish gallop works though.
Yes your suggested response would be better than biden's, but trump would still be the perceived winner.
Not that im challenging what you’re saying, I’m having difficulty understanding how that doesn’t directly counter the Gish Gallop technique effectively.
Could you elaborate? And what would be the ideal way to combat that technique in your opinion?
No I will not elaborate and furthermore how dare you say this has nothing to do with immigration. You say my policies are this or that but Illegal immigration is one of the biggliest issues our nation is facing today. My policies are simply the best in the world and infallible. Are you trying to steal the election by changing the subject to something completely unrelated to what I want to say? Are you trying to silence me? I will not stop talking about whatever I feel like in any way that streams into what counts for my brain so you have no chance to respond or make an appeal to the masses not to listen to my incoherent rambling. You low socioeconomic peasant.
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Thats how it wouldn't work. You can't counter gish gallop by trying to disprove anything they said because they don't care about any of it. About any of it being real or accurate or sane.
Try to counter or disprove any of it and they will replace it with 12 more lies which you cannot possibly disprove all of in the short amount of time you may have to respond.
Really the only way to deal with it is to not engage at all. Deliver your points and try to make an appeal to ignore the gish gallopping one trick pony.
The basic principle is that every false statement from trump is a point. You can't rebut them all because it takes longer to refute a lie than it does to make it.
Your strategy is logical and if a winner was chosen on the basis of logical, well supported answers to questions then it would be a successful strategy - but sadly the winner is chosen just based on the vibe.
Also, the bothsiderist "liberal" media would likely say that if someone were to actually counter all the Gish Gallop and then somehow make their own points, that they were too "overprepared" - coming across as knowing things is perceived as "bad" to a lot of idiots and improper moderation and awful framing from our corporate media makes it worse.
Yes. But then your two minutes are over. God I hated like every rule of that debate I'm realizing...
Yes he can. If he practices it. Maybe his staff should advise him of that.
Probably not 😕
She should accept, and for an opening statement walk over and kick him in the balls. Then just leave.
She should just accept.
No, no she should not. Biden is living proof of "better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
Every win emboldens the demagogue. We are fast approaching the event horizon where the ballot box will not save us.
November may be the last time you see a ballot box
Well, he challenged Biden again and he wouldn't accept so...
Biden can't debate Trump. He's already proven that. After his little speech tonight, there's no doubt he's got dementia. Dems have tried to blame it on a cold, a stutter, and jetlag. Wonder what they'll be saying tomorrow?
Nobody can debate Trump. He doesn’t debate. He makes shit up.
Kids on playgrounds don’t debate. They just pretend and yell when things don’t go their way. Trump is no different.
People need to stop catering to that clown.
I can say the same about Biden
Yeah, but you can’t.
Did you watch the press conference? He misspoke a few times but he had a command of the facts and it seemed fine. It was more coherent than any speech Trump has given since he started losing it.
I’m not at all happy we’re choosing between people whose brains are turning to mush but Biden’s press conference was normal enough. He answered the questions and knew policy details.
Cast your mind back to the Obama era, and imagine having a genuine discussion on whether a candidate has dementia, by assessing how many sentences they fumbled during their latest presser.
It's absolutely absurd. Preposterous.
I've become convinced that Biden is toxic to the left. He's got to go. Even if he is mentally competent he's lost the faith of the left, and he's made this campaign about his fitness rather than Trumps.
It should be a slam dunk but he's lost it.
No more free passes for Biden on these flubs. It's not a minor "misspeak" when Zelensky is called Putin and your own vp is called Trump... It's unacceptable to be this incoherent as the most powerful leader in the world. This is not fine, and if he stays in we will see worse before the election. Obviously there is no world where he is fit to be president 4 years from now.
It's to bad he gets a lot of those policy details wrong. For one, he claims inflation is going down when it's not. It's rising at a slower pace but still not going down. It's been getting higher every month. He claims the Border Patrol endorsed him and his border plan and that was disputed the following day by the head of the border patrol saying that they didn't endorse Biden and never will. Liberal news outlets will cover for Joe's lies though so it's no surprise that a lot of folks believe the stuff he says
I don’t know a fucking thing about border control stuff. But Trump never fulfilled his promise that under Biden, there’d be a taco truck on every corner. Where’s my tacos?!? I have to walk? It’s bullshit.
I thought we’d be getting Trumparito trucks everywhere but he really let me down and went back into politics.
The downvotes are insane. I'm not voting Trump, but I'm certainly not deluded enough to think Biden's a good candidate. And I'm not going to avoid discussing it because it's not convenient.
Agree, Biden isn't just stopping Trump from winning - more is at stake than just the outcome of the election. He's also supposed to make laws, declare war, etc... It's not good.
To be fair, the downvotes mean nothing.
Dogpiling is lemmy's forte.
"but Trump's a raving lunatic!" Sticks fingers firmly in ears
Edit: presumably I'm getting downvoted because Trump has set the bar so low that we're ingnoring the common opinion that Biden should retire gracefully rather than acting surprised when Trump wins and getting forced out anyway.
Again, the downvotes are nuts.
People cheering the emperor with no clothes is crazy. But here we are.
Vote out Trump, but quit pretending Biden's a good choice. It can be both.
Trump found something he’s really good at. The Gish Gallop technique in a debate. An absolute natural. With no moderators fact-checking, and the opponent with a silenced mic, he just ignores the questions, and lies in rapid sequence like a Gatling gun so his opponent has no chance of responding, challenging, or you know, debating.
A quick-thinking opponent could absolutely counter it. She could say "Hey, Donald, you didn't answer the question. It had nothing to do with immigration. Let me answer it for you. Your position is X, Y, and Z, which is bad for Americans. Mine is A, B, and C, which is good."
Can Joe do that?
That's not really how a gish gallop works though.
Yes your suggested response would be better than biden's, but trump would still be the perceived winner.
Not that im challenging what you’re saying, I’m having difficulty understanding how that doesn’t directly counter the Gish Gallop technique effectively.
Could you elaborate? And what would be the ideal way to combat that technique in your opinion?
No I will not elaborate and furthermore how dare you say this has nothing to do with immigration. You say my policies are this or that but Illegal immigration is one of the biggliest issues our nation is facing today. My policies are simply the best in the world and infallible. Are you trying to steal the election by changing the subject to something completely unrelated to what I want to say? Are you trying to silence me? I will not stop talking about whatever I feel like in any way that streams into what counts for my brain so you have no chance to respond or make an appeal to the masses not to listen to my incoherent rambling. You low socioeconomic peasant.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Thats how it wouldn't work. You can't counter gish gallop by trying to disprove anything they said because they don't care about any of it. About any of it being real or accurate or sane.
Try to counter or disprove any of it and they will replace it with 12 more lies which you cannot possibly disprove all of in the short amount of time you may have to respond.
Really the only way to deal with it is to not engage at all. Deliver your points and try to make an appeal to ignore the gish gallopping one trick pony.
The basic principle is that every false statement from trump is a point. You can't rebut them all because it takes longer to refute a lie than it does to make it.
Your strategy is logical and if a winner was chosen on the basis of logical, well supported answers to questions then it would be a successful strategy - but sadly the winner is chosen just based on the vibe.
Also, the bothsiderist "liberal" media would likely say that if someone were to actually counter all the Gish Gallop and then somehow make their own points, that they were too "overprepared" - coming across as knowing things is perceived as "bad" to a lot of idiots and improper moderation and awful framing from our corporate media makes it worse.
Yes. But then your two minutes are over. God I hated like every rule of that debate I'm realizing...
Yes he can. If he practices it. Maybe his staff should advise him of that.
Probably not 😕
She should accept, and for an opening statement walk over and kick him in the balls. Then just leave.
She should just accept.
No, no she should not. Biden is living proof of "better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
Every win emboldens the demagogue. We are fast approaching the event horizon where the ballot box will not save us.
November may be the last time you see a ballot box
Well, he challenged Biden again and he wouldn't accept so...
Biden can't debate Trump. He's already proven that. After his little speech tonight, there's no doubt he's got dementia. Dems have tried to blame it on a cold, a stutter, and jetlag. Wonder what they'll be saying tomorrow?
Nobody can debate Trump. He doesn’t debate. He makes shit up.
Kids on playgrounds don’t debate. They just pretend and yell when things don’t go their way. Trump is no different.
People need to stop catering to that clown.
I can say the same about Biden
Yeah, but you can’t.
Did you watch the press conference? He misspoke a few times but he had a command of the facts and it seemed fine. It was more coherent than any speech Trump has given since he started losing it.
I’m not at all happy we’re choosing between people whose brains are turning to mush but Biden’s press conference was normal enough. He answered the questions and knew policy details.
Cast your mind back to the Obama era, and imagine having a genuine discussion on whether a candidate has dementia, by assessing how many sentences they fumbled during their latest presser.
It's absolutely absurd. Preposterous.
I've become convinced that Biden is toxic to the left. He's got to go. Even if he is mentally competent he's lost the faith of the left, and he's made this campaign about his fitness rather than Trumps.
It should be a slam dunk but he's lost it.
No more free passes for Biden on these flubs. It's not a minor "misspeak" when Zelensky is called Putin and your own vp is called Trump... It's unacceptable to be this incoherent as the most powerful leader in the world. This is not fine, and if he stays in we will see worse before the election. Obviously there is no world where he is fit to be president 4 years from now.
It's to bad he gets a lot of those policy details wrong. For one, he claims inflation is going down when it's not. It's rising at a slower pace but still not going down. It's been getting higher every month. He claims the Border Patrol endorsed him and his border plan and that was disputed the following day by the head of the border patrol saying that they didn't endorse Biden and never will. Liberal news outlets will cover for Joe's lies though so it's no surprise that a lot of folks believe the stuff he says
Prices actually did go down last month according to the main index (CPI) the media uses. But there’s no one canonical number for inflation. https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/july-2013/cpi-vs-pce-inflation--choosing-a-standard-measure
I don’t know a fucking thing about border control stuff. But Trump never fulfilled his promise that under Biden, there’d be a taco truck on every corner. Where’s my tacos?!? I have to walk? It’s bullshit.
I thought we’d be getting Trumparito trucks everywhere but he really let me down and went back into politics.
The downvotes are insane. I'm not voting Trump, but I'm certainly not deluded enough to think Biden's a good candidate. And I'm not going to avoid discussing it because it's not convenient.
Agree, Biden isn't just stopping Trump from winning - more is at stake than just the outcome of the election. He's also supposed to make laws, declare war, etc... It's not good.
To be fair, the downvotes mean nothing.
Dogpiling is lemmy's forte.
"but Trump's a raving lunatic!" Sticks fingers firmly in ears
Edit: presumably I'm getting downvoted because Trump has set the bar so low that we're ingnoring the common opinion that Biden should retire gracefully rather than acting surprised when Trump wins and getting forced out anyway.
Again, the downvotes are nuts.
People cheering the emperor with no clothes is crazy. But here we are.
Vote out Trump, but quit pretending Biden's a good choice. It can be both.