But control of the protocol - the definition and development - is still controlled by the for-profit company, right? It hasn't been handed over to a nonprofit governance committee, has it?
Federation or not, if Bluesky dominates the protocol, they can decide to stop federating and essentially kill the independent servers. Much like what Signal did. Sure, you can run your own Signal server, but without access to the dominant player's market, and using a protocol that's controlled monopolistically, it's practically useless to do so - which is why almost nobody does it anymore.
Much like what Signal did. Sure, you can run your own Signal server
Wait what? Are we talking about the chat app?
Indeed
You can't run your own server. Never have been able to...
You can create your own federated chat app or whatever that uses the Signal protocol? You can also fork the Signal chat application? But all Signal messages run through Signal servers.
Seems to be similar here, you can run PDS (personal instances), but they still rely on a central Bluesky server
Right, the point is there was never a time you could use Signal on another server.
Yes, that's what the first comment you replied to said
No, you said there were "independent servers" and that Signal "killed" them...?
You also said you could run your own Signal server. You cant.
You also said nobody runs their own anymore, when they never did.
I reread their whole paragraph, and I agree, but anyway
Techcrunch has basically been an ad network for companies who want to promote themselves. Other open source projects probably don't have a budget to pay for an a̶r̶t̶i̶c̶l̶e̶ ad spot.
Even if it doesnt have much impact on activitypub-fedi, I think this is good news for the fediverse in general. X is loosing more and more relevancy and microblogging is more and more happening on federating services.
I'm having trouble figuring out how bluesky is part of the fediverse at all.
From my understanding it doesn't federate with anything.
It's like saying a hamburger is really just a cheeseburger......you just need to add cheese.
It has an adapter that integrated with the current protocol.
It would be interesting to know more about the additional users. The banning of Shitter in Brazil is very much tied to internal politics and AFAIK it might be the Brazilian equivalent to MAGA that is currently mass-migrating to Bluesky.
If so, this might be a bad thing for them, as they probably don't want to get perceived as the Brazilian truth.social.
it might be the Brazilian equivalent to MAGA that is currently mass-migrating to Bluesky.
actually, the opposite. The MAGA types are doing whatever they can to continue sucking on Elon's balls. It's journos and normies who are moving to Bluesky.
I would assume that since this whole thing is more or less a result of left-ish policy, and the opponent in the scenario is the far-right platform formerly known as Twitter, lead by the aspiring far-right icon Musk, the right-wingers would more likely opt to complain, cry several rivers and eventually turn to alternatives catered specifically for them (not even sure which ones are still alive after former tweetyplace took the crown) instead.
Haven’t done a vibe check on bluesky, but I assume it almost has to be more tolerant and potentially more progressive-ish than the old nazibirdhouse. If you lean towards the far right, why choose that, if alternatives exist?
Bluesky is explicitly promoting their system as "choose your own censorship" kind of deal, which in the way it is framed could look very attractive to right-wingers looking for an alternative platform. While this is technically also true for the Fediverse, it isn't promoted as such, and rather has a reputation for the opposite, as most fedi server admins are center-left leaning.
Bluesky might be also more left-leaning right now as obviously there is little reason for right-wingers elsewhere to switch away from Shitter to another (mostly) centralised platform, but given the overall low user numbers this could switch very quickly.
I guess we will have to see how this develops over time and get some answers from Brazilians that have a deeper understanding of the current social dynamics there.
Due to the language divide it might end up as two distinct social spheres, like Fedi's Japanese bubble, but that's a best case scenario for Bluesky I guess.
Bluesky is explicitly promoting their system as "choose your own censorship" kind of deal
That's why I don't use it. I am not ok with bigots sharing my network. This is true whether I can see them or not. If they're welcome, then I won't be there.
Let me know when I can disconnect from spaces that host bigots rather than just hiding them
This reads like satire. These are people you're talking about, probably your fellow citizens. Their wrong opinions are not going to pollute you from the other side of a wall. Seeing (apparently sincere) takes like this really makes me worried about the future of democracy.
Let me clarify so I understand your position
I said why I don't use Bluesky. I didn't say it shouldn't exist, or that other people shouldn't use it. I didn't pass judgement on people who do use it, or suggest that their having a different opinion on how to deal with bigotry is an issue. I simply said why I don't use it
You then insisted that I am the problem with democracy, despite you being the person insisting that everyone has to do things your preferred way?
Do I understand your position correctly?
I really really don't like the app
I'm not on Bluesky, what downsides are you seeing in their app?
It's ugly
i dont like bluesky bcs its missing alot of features compared to mastodon and twitter also when you host bluesky the server you hosted you cant view bsky.social so thats why i use mastodon alongside
What features are missing compared to Mastodon?
in bluesky (also being implemented) there is no post pinning,no post editing, No account privating and thats what i remember
Mastodon.social just went over the 2 million user mark. The switch to fediverse and fediverse adjacent is going pretty quick.
I've been on Mastodon for over a year and the content simply isn't there. Several of the people that I follow on Twitter have tried moving or duplicating to Mastodon. They've had a fraction of the visibility and engagement from commenters that they would get on Twitter. Invariably after a few months they have essentially given up on it as a primary medium. For me the discoverability is essentially non-existent, which I don't think is helped by the idea of it being based around instance-local communities, which have no meaning when you're looking at something like Twitter.
mastodon had their chance during the first exodus but they refused to listen to what twitter users wanted and shot down things like lists, quote tweets, and privacy controls.
mastodon is very gatekeeper-y
„The content“ is there. Its just the addiction inducing, never ending dopamine that doesnt flow as freely which is great.
If you follow the topics that are most prevalent on the fedi (eg freedom, activism, technology, diversity) you will not run out unless you scroll for many hours a day, which is suggests you find yourself a hobby.
Also, the self fulfilling prophecy of „the fediverse is too small, I go to big platform“ will keep the fediverse small.
Be the change you want to see.
freedom, activism, technology, diversity
Boring, boring, boring, boring. This is all "meta-converaation", like this exact thread.
Where are the musicians, the woodworkers, the DIYers, the athletes, the architects, the photographers, the wannabe chefs, the contrarian educators who do not toe the line of Academia?
Come on, you know that I'm talking about the people...
People post to the communities.
With this comment I was bringing them visibility, which is usually an issue.
On the side I keep promoting Lemmy on /r/Redditalternatives
Once we'll get more people, and they'll know where to find content, we'll be able to solve that issue
I don't want to make Mastodon propaganda, but Mastodon talks around technology are much better than Twitter ever was.
I feel this and some of the other comments in this thread are missing the point. It's not about me and my followers. It's about the news sources and topics that I search for or follow. They simply haven't moved to Mastodon and where notable individuals that I follow have tried, it simply hasn't worked out due to lack of interest. I'm not interested in the fediverse as a topic in itself, I'm interested in the topics and events I want to follow. Something happens and I can find and read and watch clips about it on Twitter. Not so Mastodon.
Bluesky is probably going to capture more of that than Mastodon. But threads is similarly struggling to develop it as well and they have very low barrier for new signups for anyone with a Facebook or Instagram account.
You are missing the point.
If lucifer was the only one having ice cream and you wanted ice cream, you would have to either go to lucifer or make your own (or ask someone to do it for you).
This is what the fediverse is about. Regaining control of our media. Your point that it is in any way too lacking to join or invest time into is self defeating as you and many others are needed to get it to that point.
So I‘m saying either accept that your work is needed to get any non billionaire owned/non corporate platform to work or stop pretending you care about your data.
You're both right.
If there aren't people building this alternative, in their free time, for free, then it won't exist. Fair enough. Much credit to them.
But it looks like @SquiffSquiff@lemmy.world is just an ordinary user with a busy life who wants to consume content in a way that better respects their privacy and autonomy. That is also a fair demand. Not everyone needs to be a producer.
Maybe they should stop caring about visibility and engagement and concentrate on participating in, building and y'know enjoying a community?
That can be difficult if your livelihood depends on it. Artists for example.
You can not have one without the other. Influencers look for audiences. If the community has no influencer, it means that the audience is irrelevant or inexistent.
I preferred the Internet that isn't driven by non-genuine posts by profit driven influencers. I am glad that those people don't like mastodon so they don't ruin another platform.
You are missing the point. The point is that there is nothing to ruin here.
The Fediverse is by and large composed of antsy, narcissistic tweenagers who never created anything and use this space as some form of support network. They think that just because they are outcasts they are part of some counterculture movement (like the punks or the OG hackers from the early internet), but they miss the very important part that these movements need to create something meaningful.
All they can do is ridicule (parts of) the status quo and resort to shoot down anything and anyone who is willing to take any risks to effect any type of change. And for all the talk about diversity and inclusivity, one can read any news headline or article here and know exactly what is going to be the reaction from the people
The only way to break away from this unbearably boring monoculture is by bringing more people. We need to get of our comfort zones, dealing with differences and learning that (some) conflict is important. The alternative is stagnation, and culture-wise stagnation is the same as death.
Guess it's not for you then. I'm having a blast. A lot of my friends are now in it and the last year or so have been great.
And more and more people seem to be moving.
Blue sky leads to the same trap Twitter was. A place that will be purchased by some asshole that shits on everyone for money.
You'll be shocked to know that bluesky is open source then and PDS is well on its way to allowing you to host your own instance.
I'm shocked to learn that Reddit is opensource back then.
Good. Competition is good. If they suceed or fail just means we learn and build a better product.
I'm way too federated for this.
Great, you can host your own instance!
But control of the protocol - the definition and development - is still controlled by the for-profit company, right? It hasn't been handed over to a nonprofit governance committee, has it?
Federation or not, if Bluesky dominates the protocol, they can decide to stop federating and essentially kill the independent servers. Much like what Signal did. Sure, you can run your own Signal server, but without access to the dominant player's market, and using a protocol that's controlled monopolistically, it's practically useless to do so - which is why almost nobody does it anymore.
Wait what? Are we talking about the chat app?
Indeed
You can't run your own server. Never have been able to...
You can create your own federated chat app or whatever that uses the Signal protocol? You can also fork the Signal chat application? But all Signal messages run through Signal servers.
Seems to be similar here, you can run PDS (personal instances), but they still rely on a central Bluesky server
Right, the point is there was never a time you could use Signal on another server.
Yes, that's what the first comment you replied to said
No, you said there were "independent servers" and that Signal "killed" them...?
You also said you could run your own Signal server. You cant.
You also said nobody runs their own anymore, when they never did.
Not me, it was @sxan@midwest.social
I reread their whole paragraph, and I agree, but anyway
Techcrunch has basically been an ad network for companies who want to promote themselves. Other open source projects probably don't have a budget to pay for an a̶r̶t̶i̶c̶l̶e̶ ad spot.
Even if it doesnt have much impact on activitypub-fedi, I think this is good news for the fediverse in general. X is loosing more and more relevancy and microblogging is more and more happening on federating services.
I'm having trouble figuring out how bluesky is part of the fediverse at all.
From my understanding it doesn't federate with anything.
It's like saying a hamburger is really just a cheeseburger......you just need to add cheese.
It has an adapter that integrated with the current protocol.
It would be interesting to know more about the additional users. The banning of Shitter in Brazil is very much tied to internal politics and AFAIK it might be the Brazilian equivalent to MAGA that is currently mass-migrating to Bluesky.
If so, this might be a bad thing for them, as they probably don't want to get perceived as the Brazilian truth.social.
actually, the opposite. The MAGA types are doing whatever they can to continue sucking on Elon's balls. It's journos and normies who are moving to Bluesky.
I would assume that since this whole thing is more or less a result of left-ish policy, and the opponent in the scenario is the far-right platform formerly known as Twitter, lead by the aspiring far-right icon Musk, the right-wingers would more likely opt to complain, cry several rivers and eventually turn to alternatives catered specifically for them (not even sure which ones are still alive after former tweetyplace took the crown) instead.
Haven’t done a vibe check on bluesky, but I assume it almost has to be more tolerant and potentially more progressive-ish than the old nazibirdhouse. If you lean towards the far right, why choose that, if alternatives exist?
Bluesky is explicitly promoting their system as "choose your own censorship" kind of deal, which in the way it is framed could look very attractive to right-wingers looking for an alternative platform. While this is technically also true for the Fediverse, it isn't promoted as such, and rather has a reputation for the opposite, as most fedi server admins are center-left leaning.
Bluesky might be also more left-leaning right now as obviously there is little reason for right-wingers elsewhere to switch away from Shitter to another (mostly) centralised platform, but given the overall low user numbers this could switch very quickly.
I guess we will have to see how this develops over time and get some answers from Brazilians that have a deeper understanding of the current social dynamics there.
Due to the language divide it might end up as two distinct social spheres, like Fedi's Japanese bubble, but that's a best case scenario for Bluesky I guess.
That's why I don't use it. I am not ok with bigots sharing my network. This is true whether I can see them or not. If they're welcome, then I won't be there.
Let me know when I can disconnect from spaces that host bigots rather than just hiding them
This reads like satire. These are people you're talking about, probably your fellow citizens. Their wrong opinions are not going to pollute you from the other side of a wall. Seeing (apparently sincere) takes like this really makes me worried about the future of democracy.
Let me clarify so I understand your position
I said why I don't use Bluesky. I didn't say it shouldn't exist, or that other people shouldn't use it. I didn't pass judgement on people who do use it, or suggest that their having a different opinion on how to deal with bigotry is an issue. I simply said why I don't use it
You then insisted that I am the problem with democracy, despite you being the person insisting that everyone has to do things your preferred way?
Do I understand your position correctly?
I really really don't like the app
I'm not on Bluesky, what downsides are you seeing in their app?
It's ugly
i dont like bluesky bcs its missing alot of features compared to mastodon and twitter also when you host bluesky the server you hosted you cant view bsky.social so thats why i use mastodon alongside
What features are missing compared to Mastodon?
in bluesky (also being implemented) there is no post pinning,no post editing, No account privating and thats what i remember
Mastodon.social just went over the 2 million user mark. The switch to fediverse and fediverse adjacent is going pretty quick.
I've been on Mastodon for over a year and the content simply isn't there. Several of the people that I follow on Twitter have tried moving or duplicating to Mastodon. They've had a fraction of the visibility and engagement from commenters that they would get on Twitter. Invariably after a few months they have essentially given up on it as a primary medium. For me the discoverability is essentially non-existent, which I don't think is helped by the idea of it being based around instance-local communities, which have no meaning when you're looking at something like Twitter.
mastodon had their chance during the first exodus but they refused to listen to what twitter users wanted and shot down things like lists, quote tweets, and privacy controls.
mastodon is very gatekeeper-y
„The content“ is there. Its just the addiction inducing, never ending dopamine that doesnt flow as freely which is great.
If you follow the topics that are most prevalent on the fedi (eg freedom, activism, technology, diversity) you will not run out unless you scroll for many hours a day, which is suggests you find yourself a hobby.
Also, the self fulfilling prophecy of „the fediverse is too small, I go to big platform“ will keep the fediverse small.
Be the change you want to see.
Boring, boring, boring, boring. This is all "meta-converaation", like this exact thread.
Where are the musicians, the woodworkers, the DIYers, the athletes, the architects, the photographers, the wannabe chefs, the contrarian educators who do not toe the line of Academia?
!newcommunities@lemmy.world for other communities suggestions
Come on, you know that I'm talking about the people...
People post to the communities.
With this comment I was bringing them visibility, which is usually an issue.
On the side I keep promoting Lemmy on /r/Redditalternatives
Once we'll get more people, and they'll know where to find content, we'll be able to solve that issue
I don't want to make Mastodon propaganda, but Mastodon talks around technology are much better than Twitter ever was.
I feel this and some of the other comments in this thread are missing the point. It's not about me and my followers. It's about the news sources and topics that I search for or follow. They simply haven't moved to Mastodon and where notable individuals that I follow have tried, it simply hasn't worked out due to lack of interest. I'm not interested in the fediverse as a topic in itself, I'm interested in the topics and events I want to follow. Something happens and I can find and read and watch clips about it on Twitter. Not so Mastodon.
Bluesky is probably going to capture more of that than Mastodon. But threads is similarly struggling to develop it as well and they have very low barrier for new signups for anyone with a Facebook or Instagram account.
You are missing the point.
If lucifer was the only one having ice cream and you wanted ice cream, you would have to either go to lucifer or make your own (or ask someone to do it for you).
This is what the fediverse is about. Regaining control of our media. Your point that it is in any way too lacking to join or invest time into is self defeating as you and many others are needed to get it to that point.
So I‘m saying either accept that your work is needed to get any non billionaire owned/non corporate platform to work or stop pretending you care about your data.
You're both right.
If there aren't people building this alternative, in their free time, for free, then it won't exist. Fair enough. Much credit to them.
But it looks like @SquiffSquiff@lemmy.world is just an ordinary user with a busy life who wants to consume content in a way that better respects their privacy and autonomy. That is also a fair demand. Not everyone needs to be a producer.
Maybe they should stop caring about visibility and engagement and concentrate on participating in, building and y'know enjoying a community?
That can be difficult if your livelihood depends on it. Artists for example.
You can not have one without the other. Influencers look for audiences. If the community has no influencer, it means that the audience is irrelevant or inexistent.
I preferred the Internet that isn't driven by non-genuine posts by profit driven influencers. I am glad that those people don't like mastodon so they don't ruin another platform.
You are missing the point. The point is that there is nothing to ruin here.
The Fediverse is by and large composed of antsy, narcissistic tweenagers who never created anything and use this space as some form of support network. They think that just because they are outcasts they are part of some counterculture movement (like the punks or the OG hackers from the early internet), but they miss the very important part that these movements need to create something meaningful.
All they can do is ridicule (parts of) the status quo and resort to shoot down anything and anyone who is willing to take any risks to effect any type of change. And for all the talk about diversity and inclusivity, one can read any news headline or article here and know exactly what is going to be the reaction from the people
The only way to break away from this unbearably boring monoculture is by bringing more people. We need to get of our comfort zones, dealing with differences and learning that (some) conflict is important. The alternative is stagnation, and culture-wise stagnation is the same as death.
Guess it's not for you then. I'm having a blast. A lot of my friends are now in it and the last year or so have been great.
And more and more people seem to be moving.
Blue sky leads to the same trap Twitter was. A place that will be purchased by some asshole that shits on everyone for money.
You'll be shocked to know that bluesky is open source then and PDS is well on its way to allowing you to host your own instance.
I'm shocked to learn that Reddit is opensource back then.