People seem oddly optimistic about all of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the solution they came up with still wouldn't work in Linux. I don't know how exactly they'd do it, but I can imagine some encryption key or hardware nonsense that Linux can't replicate.
Either way, making all the software developers who insist on messing with the kernel on windows, stop, will be a good thing.
Yeah, "kernel level anticheat" has become a bit of buzzword in the competitive game scene and people just think it's better without really understanding what that means. Microsoft could do one good thing here and begin blocking that shit.
look at the TF2 bot crisis, some people thought (btw I'm so glad I can say thought and not think) that making VAC kernal level would fix it when in reality like 2 employees could've fixed a ton of the botting issues
Yeah, it's a shame they abandoned TF2. VAC is my preferred AC though, they were ahead of the curve with ML detection, now ML has blown up in a major way, that is what we should focusing on for AC, not borderline malware.
But then how can we monitize our gamers if we can't run at the kernel level and do whatever we want?
We're selling games at an overpriced rate and putting tons of gambling and Mtx in our games. But this is unsustainable. We'll go bankrupt at this rate! Just last week we had a meeting with the CEO complaining he couldn't buy his fifth luxury boat because he had spent that years bonus on his 2nd aircraft. He said heads might start to roll at this rate to keep the company float. Where are we supposed to find the money to index 5% on the wages.
Some upper manager somewhere. Probably
I'm optimistic about the idea that game developers will stop being allowed to install fucking malware.
I don't trust Microsoft at all, but you shouldn't be able to consent to that bullshit in an EULA no one has ever read.
People seem oddly optimistic
Hopeful is better than Hopeless.
@savvywolf I imagine that they would instead force them to use a certain API that wouldn't be so easy to replicate on Linux.
API calls would still be a lot easier to replicate through wine/proton than completely uncontrolled kernel access.
My solution to games not supporting Steam Deck/Linux is to simply not buy/play it. It’s not much but it’s honest work!
Same. There are anyway much more games than one can find time to play them.
This^
The road to Linux gaming has already been paved. It's just missing one or two exits.
This is the way!
This only gets more effective by the year
Kernel level anti cheat is still bypassed so why do so many people just accept a literal ring-0 rootkit if it doesn't even axcomplish its intended goal?
Because so many people have no clue. They don't even know what ring-0 access means.
Because people are technologically inept and buy into the propaganda that kernel-level anticheat is more effective than the alternative solutions.
Sometimes kernel level anti-cheat is good for the consumer, actually.
I was about to relapse and install league of legends, but then vanguard for league was announced, which immediately cured me <3
Yeah if league starts working on linux again then I'll probably relapse as well :/
I have saved a lot of money by scrolling down and seeing "Denuvo."
Microsoft aren’t kicking people out of kernel space but expanding the capabilities in user space to minimize the reasons to need to run security components in kernel mode so they can develop and deploy solutions with minimal risk (no security vendor wants that risk when they’re running on business/enterprise machines like CrowdStrike).
Kicking everyone out of the kernel is a long journey and even Apple, who are much further along this path, still haven’t completely closed the door on kernel extensions. It’ll be several Windows versions yet before kernel drivers are no longer a thing.
You mean to say that my great-grandson can finally play Destiny 2 on Linux? Sweet!
Paving the way for Linux gaming is a bit of a stretch here, but yes, userspacing security in Windows could enable Linux compatibility better.
There was an article not too long ago about how windows 11 was gaining in market share for gamers. But my guess is a lot of them are like me and bought a handheld that can dual boot Bazzite and Windows (because they have games that only windows can play). Most of the games I have are older so no incorporating anti-cheat anything at the kernel level. But I still had to turn off secure boot in order to get Bazzite up and running.
I wonder how long this will continue to be the case once they end support for windows 10 next year.
Definitely not "Crowdstrike tarnished their brand so much because no one understands what kernel level is that no one is going to get kernel level access"
You can be sure that MS finds a way to either bust it or make it anticompetitive.
The anti-tampering solution sounds like some trusted computing bullshit like on mobile where banking apps will refuse to run if your device has a custom rom or non-locked boot loader. This would be how anti-cheat software could continue to lock out linux.
I bet it is similar to android "mimimi this is sideloaded version, I will not start that, download original version from play (bzw. MS store) store plz" feature
Effects that anti cheat software games only can be sold via MS store, great! /s
Yeah we'll see
My concern with this is it will be a UWP feature, or be too complicated for wine devs to ports to Linux. Or be heavily dependent of Windows to the point that the ApIs will give Wine away. Eaither way I don’t expect multiplayer Linux game support anytime soon
People seem oddly optimistic about all of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the solution they came up with still wouldn't work in Linux. I don't know how exactly they'd do it, but I can imagine some encryption key or hardware nonsense that Linux can't replicate.
Either way, making all the software developers who insist on messing with the kernel on windows, stop, will be a good thing.
Yeah, "kernel level anticheat" has become a bit of buzzword in the competitive game scene and people just think it's better without really understanding what that means. Microsoft could do one good thing here and begin blocking that shit.
look at the TF2 bot crisis, some people thought (btw I'm so glad I can say thought and not think) that making VAC kernal level would fix it when in reality like 2 employees could've fixed a ton of the botting issues
Yeah, it's a shame they abandoned TF2. VAC is my preferred AC though, they were ahead of the curve with ML detection, now ML has blown up in a major way, that is what we should focusing on for AC, not borderline malware.
But then how can we monitize our gamers if we can't run at the kernel level and do whatever we want?
We're selling games at an overpriced rate and putting tons of gambling and Mtx in our games. But this is unsustainable. We'll go bankrupt at this rate! Just last week we had a meeting with the CEO complaining he couldn't buy his fifth luxury boat because he had spent that years bonus on his 2nd aircraft. He said heads might start to roll at this rate to keep the company float. Where are we supposed to find the money to index 5% on the wages.
Some upper manager somewhere. Probably
I'm optimistic about the idea that game developers will stop being allowed to install fucking malware.
I don't trust Microsoft at all, but you shouldn't be able to consent to that bullshit in an EULA no one has ever read.
Hopeful is better than Hopeless.
@savvywolf I imagine that they would instead force them to use a certain API that wouldn't be so easy to replicate on Linux.
@Fubarberry
API calls would still be a lot easier to replicate through wine/proton than completely uncontrolled kernel access.
My solution to games not supporting Steam Deck/Linux is to simply not buy/play it. It’s not much but it’s honest work!
Same. There are anyway much more games than one can find time to play them.
This^ The road to Linux gaming has already been paved. It's just missing one or two exits.
This is the way!
This only gets more effective by the year
Kernel level anti cheat is still bypassed so why do so many people just accept a literal ring-0 rootkit if it doesn't even axcomplish its intended goal?
Because so many people have no clue. They don't even know what ring-0 access means.
Because people are technologically inept and buy into the propaganda that kernel-level anticheat is more effective than the alternative solutions.
Sometimes kernel level anti-cheat is good for the consumer, actually.
I was about to relapse and install league of legends, but then vanguard for league was announced, which immediately cured me <3
Yeah if league starts working on linux again then I'll probably relapse as well :/
I have saved a lot of money by scrolling down and seeing "Denuvo."
Microsoft aren’t kicking people out of kernel space but expanding the capabilities in user space to minimize the reasons to need to run security components in kernel mode so they can develop and deploy solutions with minimal risk (no security vendor wants that risk when they’re running on business/enterprise machines like CrowdStrike).
Kicking everyone out of the kernel is a long journey and even Apple, who are much further along this path, still haven’t completely closed the door on kernel extensions. It’ll be several Windows versions yet before kernel drivers are no longer a thing.
You mean to say that my great-grandson can finally play Destiny 2 on Linux? Sweet!
Paving the way for Linux gaming is a bit of a stretch here, but yes, userspacing security in Windows could enable Linux compatibility better.
There was an article not too long ago about how windows 11 was gaining in market share for gamers. But my guess is a lot of them are like me and bought a handheld that can dual boot Bazzite and Windows (because they have games that only windows can play). Most of the games I have are older so no incorporating anti-cheat anything at the kernel level. But I still had to turn off secure boot in order to get Bazzite up and running.
I wonder how long this will continue to be the case once they end support for windows 10 next year.
Definitely not "Crowdstrike tarnished their brand so much because no one understands what kernel level is that no one is going to get kernel level access"
You can be sure that MS finds a way to either bust it or make it anticompetitive.
The anti-tampering solution sounds like some trusted computing bullshit like on mobile where banking apps will refuse to run if your device has a custom rom or non-locked boot loader. This would be how anti-cheat software could continue to lock out linux.
I bet it is similar to android "mimimi this is sideloaded version, I will not start that, download original version from play (bzw. MS store) store plz" feature
Effects that anti cheat software games only can be sold via MS store, great! /s
Yeah we'll see
My concern with this is it will be a UWP feature, or be too complicated for wine devs to ports to Linux. Or be heavily dependent of Windows to the point that the ApIs will give Wine away. Eaither way I don’t expect multiplayer Linux game support anytime soon